:: Clarity Of Act 26 ::

We all know that the reason that most of us here are craving a Seaon 3 of Big O is because of what happened in Act 26, and a little bit of Act 25. Most of us want to about so many loose ends such as the yellow Behemoth in Act 26, the 'room' (if you want to call it that) in B666 that Angel and Gordon Rosewater venture into and most notably, the ending of Act 26 where everything was erased and restarted. (With a few notable changes).

So I was just thinking, and also not to let things die off and get dull with Big O, what are some of the things that are puzzling you about Act 26 or any other part of Big O? What about this anime series keeps you up at night wondering; what the hell did I just witness?!

From me, it's Roger's last memory flashback. I'm STILL watching Act 26 to try and gain something, anything that can lend a clue or some clarity about what it all meant. The Roger clones, the wings of Big Venus, and the armies of Duo and O fighting what seems to be Archetype and Levithian.

The other thing that's going me choked up is the beginning of the show. Someone here in these forums mentioned this a while ago, and unfortantely I forgot who, but they mentioned that there was a major clue in the left hand corner of Big Ear's room of the top of a building, and after the building collapsed, the image from before of the building was still there. This person said that was a clue that this event has happened before in the past and that whole thing has me confused like you know what.

So if you need some clarity with Act 26 or anything else, ask here.
Thanks and Peace.

Well, a lot of things keep me up at night, so I can't really clarify if any of those things relate to Big O...

I got one. I am really confused about the whole RD-Wainwright's Mansion-Glinda thing. I'm refurring to Act 15, Negotiaton with the Dead. It had Roger and Dorothy snooping around Timothy Wainwright's stuff. One thing that spooked the hell outta me was the fact that Wainwright had a whole room COATED in METAL, COPPER! Sorry for shouting, but I swear something was up with either him and the Union, or (even scarier) him and the Paradigm Corperation!
Thats somethin to cook yer noodle on!

Also, the whole "reset" thing-a-ma-whatsy, those visions of Roger's were Paradigm's past. When I say that, I mean that there have been (recorded evidence in the show) 4 resets, maybe with different changes added to each. The first was (I'm slightly hypothesizing) the real world being invaded by the megadeuses Big O, Duo, and Fau. Somehow, the human forces found a way to create Megadeuses themselves, and dove into battle with a hundred Big Os (hence the little flashback in episode "Hydra"). However, that didn't go well, and Big Venus arrived to destroy the entire world. BOOM! No more Chinese laundry...

The next big reset was the fact that SOMEHOW (I don't know how, another reason for a Big O III) humanity returns to existence in the shiny Paradigm City, with no domes to speak of. This is sort of the back stories of Big O that you didn't see. I beleive Roger is a gambler, destroys his entire life, and then falls on his face in front of an old rundown bank (Beck probably got bankrupt, Haha!) where Norman Burg was silently cleaning up. Of course, Norman had memories, so as soon as he saw Roger, he scooped him up and became his butler immediately. From hence Norman told Roger of his responcibilities, and the "great Big O!" This is the "staged" scene in Act 14 that tells about that scene. However, along the lines of Big Fau, I believe that Roger fails and the world is destroyed AGAIN.

I'll come back to you on the third and fourth things...

Thanks for replying, Mattartist and I gotta say, a lot of things you talked about are puzzling. Thus making Big O not only weird and mystic but so damn enjoyable at the same time.

Chinese laundry. That's funny...

Anyway, that's true about the episode 'Negtiation With The Dead'. Why the hell did Wayneright have a room coated with copper? Your comment with Wayneright's allience to the Union and/or Paradigm HQ is pretty damn interesting and I'm starting to think that ol' boy Wayneright had deals with both the Union and Paradigm HQ. Although, I have to admit, that I really don't remember that episode so I'm gonna have to look back on that and see.

Damn good stuff on the second part but I'm wondering about your comment on 'human forces'. Then did the megaduses attack Paradigm on their own accord and if so, why?

And another thing I've noticed. No matter if Roger is successful or fails (at what I really don't know at what) it seems that Paradigm is fixed that it will always restart again but with some differences and similarities.

If you follow Act 14, then I guess the Roger explaination works but still, I feel like something is missing...

Thanks again and if there's anyone else, then come on. Let's talk.
Peace.

I'm the one who posted that "theory" about Big Ear's room holding the clue to Act 26. Yes, what I was referring to was the clues including the newspaper lying on the table clearly showing what was ABOUT to happen in the "Big Fight" between Big O and Big Fau. This gave me the hint that what happened in the fight was "fixed" and "pre-ordained".

As to the "corner" of the building that Big Ear was sitting at...showed the background of the fight scene that was going to happen...just before the building collapsed on the dead Big Ear.

But there are other mysteries that have yet to be fully explained...like how Dorothy was able to "remember" while not having access to her memory core. I theorized in a previous post that Dorothy was able to "remotely access" her memory core while it was grafted into Big Fau's system. Intriguing theory...but maybe too neat and logical..because what I think the writers and producers of that Act 26 were trying to show something way more profound. I still believe Dorothy is intimately connected to Angel and the entire Paradigm City mystery...something that even eluded Roger Smith. Because you have to ask yourself why Angel "created" Dorothy for? There wasn't a need for her to make a romantic rival for Roger Smith's affections. But there's more to Dorothy than that....which is...she's Dominus class and there are plenty of hints suggesting she's the true Dominus for Big Fau...one of them being her memories...and the other...the colors of Big Fau suggest a female pilot being the true owner.

quote:

Originally posted by Paradigm City Hustla Thanks for replying, Mattartist and I gotta say, a lot of things you talked about are puzzling. Thus making Big O not only weird and mystic but so damn enjoyable at the same time. Chinese laundry. That's funny... Anyway, that's true about the episode 'Negtiation With The Dead'. Why the hell did Wayneright have a room coated with copper? Your comment with Wayneright's allience to the Union and/or Paradigm HQ is pretty damn interesting and I'm starting to think that ol' boy Wayneright had deals with both the Union and Paradigm HQ. Although, I have to admit, that I really don't remember that episode so I'm gonna have to look back on that and see. Damn good stuff on the second part but I'm wondering about your comment on 'human forces'. Then did the megaduses attack Paradigm on their own accord and if so, why? And another thing I've noticed. No matter if Roger is successful or fails (at what I really don't know at what) it seems that Paradigm is fixed that it will always restart again but with some differences and similarities. If you follow Act 14, then I guess the Roger explaination works but still, I feel like something is missing... Thanks again and if there's anyone else, then come on. Let's talk. Peace.

Whoa, I'm funny! (spotanious yay somewhere in the back) Anyway, yeah. Thanks for agreeing, thats really the spookiest thing for me in the whole of the series. A third season is like, SO NEEDED! Back on topic, another thing thats really cookin' me noodle is why Dorothy could function without her memory core? I mean, for humans, they can get away with it, but when you pull a toaster's plug, it sorta DOESNT WORK! So, this brings up Roger's query in Act 1 about Dorothy, well relatively it does.

ROGER: "There's something odd about that Miss Soldano (Dorothy), aside from the fact that she's an android..."

Well, whadaya think folks?

Again, I am funny! HOORAY! (runs out into backyard and is attacked by bees.) AARGG! BEES!

Hee.

Again, showing that humor...

Mattartist, you brought up a very good point. Once, you unplug the toaster, it's pretty much useless and just taking up space. But that really can't be said for the same point as R. Dorothy Wayneright. Dorothy's no applicance that can be shut on or off, she is an android that is capable of showing full blown emotions. From what goes on in Act 26, Dorothy becaming functional again, even though her core-memory system was in Big Fau and they were beating Big O and Roger Smith like they owed them money. Also, from Jason Beck said, asking Dorothy if she knew who she really is, makes me think that the reason Dorothy was able to function was that she has regain her memories of the past... Or the memories of that of the real Dorothy Wayneright who died 40 years ago, but I hope you understand what I mean.

Staying with this and I bet someone has already mentioned this before but it's just something I want to touch on a little bit. Norman says to Beck that memories are in the human form, the same thing Gordon says to Roger, Vera, and Angel in Act 25. This comment makes sense to the topic of Angel, but what does that mean about Dorothy? She has recovered 'her' memories and that why she is able to function but does that comment apply to Dorothy and if so, how?

I was reading earlier stuff on the forums the other day and besides the fact that just about everyone here is so damn ingenious and obserative, I thought it was interesting to hear everyone's thoughts on ol' boy Alex Rosewater and Big Fau. Okay, after listen to everyone and watching 'The Third Big' one too many times, it seems apparent that Alex is not the dominuse of Big Fau but actually in another past version of Paradigm City, Dorothy Wayneright is. But A Clockwork Tomato (much love!) said something that shined some light on me. We don't actually know what the qualifications are for being a dominus of a megaduse. We just know that Roger Smith seems to be the only dominuse that can properly work and control a megaduse, unlike Alex, Gabriel, and maybe Schwartzwold.

Think about that and hopefully, more of you kids will respond and make this discussion worth while. Thanks.
Peace.

Well, lets see.

What I've gathered from everybody here (and throwing a little bit of my own knowlegde) the qualifications of a dominus are these:

-He or she should be sane, and not wanna blow everything up
Although its cool, you might as well feed yourself to the megadeus on a big shiny spoon.

-He or she should contain memories of the past. Roger asks if he had memories, and Gordon pretty much sumed up the answer of "Yes, you nimrod." As with Dorothy, if Paradigm really IS a stage, something made to be the enjoyment of others, then the "producers" of Paradigm could've created her to be an android cop-out, and in turn she had been human the whole time. I hope you're getting this, cause I sometimes don't get it myself. Thereby if you observe Acts 1 and 2, perhaps R. Dorothy IS the ONLY Dorothy. Just because Roger sees Dorothy with purple eyes in his dream-state adventure in Act 14 doesn't MEAN that she always will have purple eyes.

-Finally, he or she should be a main character on the hit series "The Big O". (pauses) Heh, made ya look!

So, to finish it off, I believe Dorothy is a dominus, but for whom, I'm still pondering. Considering the craziness of trying to find out who Big Fau's dominus is, I better just let some other people who have no lives try to figure that out. (pauses) Sorry about that "no lives" thing.

(sighs largely) Now, onto one MORE thing. I've actually been subliminally thinking about this night and day. For like, 2 years. Ever since I saw the end of Act 26 (yes, SOMETHING THAT PERTAINS!) I kept questioning Roger's assumptions about the disapeerance of his memories. Heres the quote (I memorized it. Yeah, I DO have no life to speak of. )

ROGER: ... I myself don't even know who I am. I don't have a single solitary memory about myself! But I don't believe anyone took them from me. I most likely erased them of my own free will! I did it for myself, so I could live in the present AND in the future, because I must go on believing there is a ME! (Then he proceeds to gush on about Angel, and about her becoming a human, yatah yatah yatah.)

You know, you kinda wish that the Japanese folks would actually write something THAT MAKES SENSE for a change, huh?

Ahem, anyway, I acutally more and more believe in quite the opposite. It may have been that (I'm hypothesizing again, HOORAY!) Roger, as a young child, was brought to audition for some role in an upcoming show about a big robot. There the "producers" of Paradigm started to BRAINWASH Roger into believing in that he was a Negotiator in a fictional city called Paradigm. Thereby, as he grew, he knew more and more about Roger Smith, the man he is to play.

Did you know that the last name "Smith" is used in tons of art deco movies as the biggest of all ALIASES? Just something to ponder. Anyway, I'm talking too much. Now then, (sighs heavily) if you need me, I'll be in the bath tub watching the Truman Show.

(pauses) Wait a minute...

This is a defintion of 'amensia' from Answers.com

Mostly to break it down, amensia is a condition of a loss of memory for long or short intervals of time. Meaning that amensia is temporary. I know that everyone here knows this but here me out. The amensia in Paradigm City lasts for about 40 years, right. So when 40 years lapses, this system, or whatever you want to call it, starts up and resets itself with Big ol' Venus and everyone lives again with amensia, not really knowing anything around about what happened 40 years ago or prior to that. Because there was nothing 40 years ago.

But to me, this is sounding a lot like the Matrix. People living in a dreamworld, where outside, the real world has been through a devestating catalyism, unable for human beings to live anymore.

But then there's the question of what is really outside Paradigm City and what happened to that place that made it neccassary to create the system of Paradigm and relocate 'the rest of' humanity to these so-called Dreamworld. What I believe the answer to this is...

What I'm confused about is at the very end of Act 26 when the tear runs down Angel's cheek, you get a look at Gordon Rosewater's book Metropolis. Except that in this scene the book is by Angel Rosewater.

Did she marry Roger, who for some reason changed his name to Rosewater? Did she marry Alex?! Or even worse, did she marry Gordon?

Or is it implying that she is the puppet master that made Gordon dream up the book?

She could just be Gordon's daughter.

Also, I seriously doubt that Dorothy is a Dominus of Megadeus. She only uses violence as an absolute last resort, and even when she is left no other choice she exercises extreme restraint.

Consider her brief piloting of Big O in "Leviathan." Were she intended to be a Dominus, she probably would have carried on fighting. Instead, she punched it just once, to stall long enough for Roger to arrive.

She just has the wrong kind of personality for a Dominus.

Yea, I guess the whole "adopting Gordon's last name" theory makes more sense than mine do, lol.

Actually, Zipline, that's one of the many things that confuses and makes me kinda mad about the end of Act 26.

?? Why is Angel's last name suddenly Rosewater ??

To me, that came from nowhere and what is that to implicate? That only descentants from the Rosewater clan can be the director of Paradigm City? I don't know.

quote:

She could just be Gordon's daughter.

She is Gordon's daughter. That's what Vera, also Gordon's daughter, said in Act 25.

That's very interesting on the 'puppet master' statement you made earlier, Zipline, because for the time being that's what it looks like.

Peace.

I'm probably going get cruified for this but I got ask this:

If there was going to a Season 3, what would it actually be about? I'm asking this because I watching Season 2 this weekend and I realized that truthfully, everything about Paradigm City and the truth has already been shown to us. The thing is is that it hardly makes any type of logical sense. The only thing that is TRULY strange is the Behemoth in Act 26 and the the stagelights and the gears in the bottom of the sea under Paradigm City and that's because we only saw those things for only 20 seconds (if that).

Maybe if Season 2 was so rushed, including the whacked out ending, then maybe there would be an emphasis to make a Season 3 but since the truth was told and everything was shown to us, I don't see what a Season 3 would show and what it would be about.

Peace.

Man, THAT is the true question...

I believe, more than anything, Season 3 should be about the redemption of Paradigm City. Schwartzwald has been saying as such. Roger would discover first hand accounts of what happened forty years ago, and that in fact Roger himself was "FORCED" into becoming who he is, and not what he should've been, his own person.
As well as that, Season 3 would give the writer an outlet to explain and tie up several knots, including Timothy Wainwright's legacy with the Union and Paradigm Corp, and the gears below the city.

Well, I'm done ranting for now...

That's pretty dam good and interesting Mattartist. That would be a good indicator of what Season 3 would be like.

I was also reading another thread around here, I don't which one or where it's at, but people were talking about at the whacked ending of Act 26, Roger Smith didn't have his watch on. Well, I went home and went over the tapes I have and I did indeed see that you couldn't see Roger's watch... and the same thing can be said in Act 24, and Act 18, and probably the episode "Beck Comes Back". I don't remember the Act number but the pont is is that I don't think its a very big deal that you can't see Roger's watch and I certainly don't think its because he doesn't need Big O anymore. It just probably means that he's sporting the watch but its under his sleeve and we can't see it.
Peace.

well i gotta question.

In act 15:Negotiation with the Dead it is stated that Rosco Fitzgerald had no tomatoe with his memories because he never lost his memories!

yet in The War of Paradigm City it is said that by Gordon that no one ever had memories of 40 years ago. so whats the deal!?!?! plz help. did anyone have memories or not?

Hi. I'm very new here. I've been following and hypothesizing about Big O for two years or so now, and though I'm not too familiar with the whole forum thing, I have certain questions and comments. First, I watch the series over and over and every time I find (or perhaps, observe) something new in the plot, or the background, or the subplot. It still doesn't amke sense. Everytime I think I have it semi-firgured out, I find something new to contradict my theory and I'm stumped yet again. I think that's the great thing about the show.
It forces you to exame, theorize, then rethink all over again. One of the first things I noticed is that to me, Dorothy looked slightly different at the end, where she is on the street with Angel. Not quite like her Act 14 counterpart, but still not quite like she looked in Act One. Is there some significance to that, or are my eyes playing tricks on me? Also, in response to the comment about Angel having the last name Rosewater, I took that as a given because of the conversation between Angel, Vera and Gordon. Not just because of the whole "tomatoes" thing, but also because there is no real knowledge presented regarding her parentage, aside from the somewhat skewed memories Angel has of her mom, though it was hinted that Vera was her mom. Perhaps she took on Gordon's name because of his status as the essential "father" of Paradigm? Just throwing out some theories, mind you. I love Big O in avery form, and would love to be a welcomed member of your discussion board. Thanx!!!

quote:

Originally posted by spiked-knives well i gotta question. In act 15:Negotiation with the Dead it is stated that Rosco Fitzgerald had no tomatoe with his memories because he never lost his memories! yet in The War of Paradigm City it is said that by Gordon that no one ever had memories of 40 years ago. so whats the deal!?!?! plz help. did anyone have memories or not?

Gordon says a lot of things.

I get the feeling that he's hinting around at the idea that, 40 years ago, people didn't just lose their memories. The day before they woke up without their memories, the world was a very different place.

The answer to "What happened 40 years ago?" is apparently that the world was recreated. If people had kept their memories, they would have remembered a different world from what they saw around them.

If you remembered this different world, and went looking for stuff you remembered, you wouldn't find it. So are the memories "real"? If cause and effect are violated when Big Venus remakes the world, are the events on the other side of the causal break "real"?

Also, we've seen evidence that some people have fake memories. In Act 26, one of Roger's visions is of Angel directing a scene that become one of her childhood memories.

All of this is complicated by Gordon's cryptic manner and by the way that some stuff from the old Paradigm seems to have slopped over accidentally into the new Paradigm. Memories, objects (like some stuff in the Underground), and even people. Some people in the new Paradigm seem to be reincarnations of people from the old Paradigm -- Roger Smith, Dan Dastun, Sybil Rowan, and (in a different way) Dorothy Wayneright.

First and foremost, this is one hell of a theory and you should check it out.

Anyway, I think A.C.T. is pretty damn right (as usual ) in the point that some memories and other "things" from the old version of Paradigm have spilled into the new version of Paradigm. And to me, that explains why Angel and Dorothy appear to know each other and why Dorothy is wearing the outfit that Roger has her wear for the Smith Manison. Some of the memories of the old Paradigm City (the one that we see through out the Big O series) have survived Big Venus' or Angel's or who/whatever's reset. This would actually mean that Gordon's tomato experiment is working (in a way, I guess).

Welcome to the forums, Klrrjess and your questions are the same ones that just about everyone else here has. There probably is signifiance to the way that Dorothy and Angel appear on the street at the end of Act 26 but no one has no solid idea on what that is.

quote:

Some people in the new Paradigm seem to be reincarnations of people from the old Paradigm -- Roger Smith, Dan Dastun, Sybil Rowan, and (in a different way) Dorothy Wayneright.

I was under the impression that every time Paradigm City is reset or when the Event occurs, everybody in Paradigm in reincarated. Maybe they play "different roles" but still that person would be in the new Paradigm in some shape or form.

Gordon does talk a lot of you know what but still what Rosewater and A.C.T. are talking about is pretty much true. Nothing happened 40 years ago because due to the Resets, there technically isn't anything 40 years ago but the people of the past Paradigms not only lose their memories but also woke up in a different world from the one they were used to. Not to different from what we see of the memories in Act 26 but different non the less.

Peace.

Okay. I watched Acts 20-26 last night and came up with a few questions. 1) Obviously, the Roger Smith we know in the series is not an android. He has been shot, nearly drowned, etc, etc... So were the androids created in the image of Roger simply because he is the Dominus of Big O? There seemed to duplicates of Big O, so who better to pilot them, right? Also, there was a dead (destroyed?) Roger wearing another sort of uniform. I noticed the lapel pins on his shirt, are they to show rank? Was he an MP, or pre- Event military? Or was that another android? 2) Okay. So only a few people know about the exisitence of foreigners, right? And when Sybil in Winter's Night Phantom speaks in French, no one can understand it. SO, what about Schwarzwald? Not only does Dastun refer to him as being German, but on the night he and Roger met, he tells Roger to call him Schwarzwald, to which Roger replies... "Black Forest?". How does Roger know what that means? I have the DVDs (and occasionally watch them with the Subtitles) and at one point, Schwarzwald's comments are *in German* on the subtitles (!). Then there's the whole matter of the Japanese Businessmen in "The Greatest Villian" (Act 18.). What gives?!?! 3) Was Angel really raised in Paradigm city, on the stage set she discovered? 4) If the movie Winter Night's Phantom takes place pre-Event, the why show Paradigm City with the domes already in place?!?!? These questions are only but a few of the things that rattle through my brain, when I am trying to sleep and know that I have to get up early the next day. Again, any comments or hypotheses are greatly appreciated. Thanx!
Oh, yeah! The Big One: We all know Dorothy is special. Not just "special", but SPECIAL as in conncetions to Megadei, Roger, the "Director" and Paradigm as a whole. SO. We know by Act 26 that there are at least two other human looking androids. Speciafically, Big Ear and Senator Roscoe Fitzgerald. Yet, no one know they were androids simply by looking at the, They appear to be much closer to human than Dorothy does. WHY is that? Dorothy is a wonder of technological advance, with several implied applications that make her very important to the scheme of things in Paradigm. Is it maybe because Roscoe and Big Ear were pre-Event androids? They both seem to be over forty, and we know for a fact that Roscoe had all his memories -- Oohh, BTW, what did happen to Roscoe's memory disc? If he indeed had memories, why did Gordon say that memories from before forty years ago never existed? Somebody's gotta be lying, but who? But, back to my question at hand. Does Dorothy look the way she does because of the lack of available materials to construct a more lifelike appearance? Was she created to merely look human, not to live as a human? That would really suck. And what did prompt Dorothy's ressurection after being essentially lobotomized by Beck? Yes, love is powerful, but HOW did she revive her consciousness? The mind warbles...