Dorothy03 from the AS Forums foud the exact painting used by schwarzwald's leviathan flyer.
Painting by William Blake (1757-1827)
Painting by William Blake (1757-1827)
William Blake Thread
| Volt | 12-01-2003 06:05 PM |
That sure is a weird painting. The behemoth looks more like a retarded cow...
| Zopwx2 | 12-01-2003 06:12 PM |
It seems they changed the painting slightly check it out:
| Big Fau | 12-01-2003 06:13 PM |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Volt That sure is a weird painting. The behemoth looks more like a retarded cow... |
since when does a retarded cow have human ears? O.o
as for the picture/image/painting/whatever that is, DAMN!!! That is one old painting X_x
Painting by William Blake (1757-1827)
edit: yeah, those angels/saints right above the Behe. Lev. are missing...
| Volt | 12-01-2003 06:14 PM |
Hmm... weird. Looks better, though. God kinda takes your attention away from retarded cow-- er, Behmoth for a moment. That's really weird. Wonder why they did that?
| Zopwx2 | 12-01-2003 06:15 PM |
Also the AS forums have new big o wallpaper.
| A. Rosewater | 12-01-2003 06:18 PM |
william blake painted it....its a painting he did based on the biblical book of Job.
| R.Smith | 12-01-2003 06:20 PM |
Hmm... this is interesting,...i wonder why they changed it?
| Surtur | 12-01-2003 09:13 PM |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by R.Smith Hmm... this is interesting,...i wonder why they changed it? |
Well I'm pretty sure they made it just one heavenly being to represent either The Director, controlling them, or Big O, who defeated both of them.
I noticed also that in Schwarzwald's pamphlet, the Behemoth is standing in front of a city instead of just grass. this obviously represents Paradigm City.
| R and D | 12-02-2003 04:12 PM |
FREAKY!
| Zopwx2 | 12-02-2003 07:21 PM |
The schwarz version still has the "angels" but it doesn't have those other people up there with god. Who are they? I haven't read the bible, who are they supposed to reperesent?
| GiantRobot | 12-02-2003 08:21 PM |
Not only are the people beneath God excluded from Schwarzwald's pamphlet (I think the one in the centre is Job, the three on the right are probably his three friends; the other I don't know at the moment), but also the wording around the picture. I've noticed this is also excluded from some of the images I've seen on the internet; don't know if this is the case with the one on the AS forum, though, as I haven't seen it. Anyways, the words say (punctuation kept as accurate as possible):
[top] "Can any understand the spreadings of the Clouds
the noise of his Tabernacle"
[left] "Also by watering he wearieth the <?> cloud
He <?> the bright <?> also it is <?> about by his <?>"
[right] "Of Behemoth he saith. He is the chief of the ways of God
Of Leviathan he saith. He is King over all the Children of Pride"
[bottom] "Behold now Behemoth which I made with thee"
The left part is quite difficult to read. Another change to the picture is the way God looks. The Behemoth and Leviathan are very similar to the original, but the God in the original looks like he's pointing them out to Job and his friends, as he does in the book of Job; showing them to Job and making example of them and their attributes. The God in Schwarzwald's picture looks more like he's looking down angrily on the beasts, and like he's ordering them to do something. (Probably the role of the director coming out in the image.)
In any case, supposedly the Behemoth and the Leviathan do battle on Judgement Day and both are destroyed; the righteous then feed on the meat of the Behemoth, who sort of represents the way of God. The Leviathan represents otherwise. As this applies to Big O; the Big O might be like the Behemoth (kind of a connexion between man and God [the director], and also a representation of what is right), and perhaps the Big Fau is like the Leviathan (that "Children of Pride" sounds especially like Alex Rosewater).
More may be found in the Bible, Job 40-41. I'll look into it more.
[top] "Can any understand the spreadings of the Clouds
the noise of his Tabernacle"
[left] "Also by watering he wearieth the <?> cloud
He <?> the bright <?> also it is <?> about by his <?>"
[right] "Of Behemoth he saith. He is the chief of the ways of God
Of Leviathan he saith. He is King over all the Children of Pride"
[bottom] "Behold now Behemoth which I made with thee"
The left part is quite difficult to read. Another change to the picture is the way God looks. The Behemoth and Leviathan are very similar to the original, but the God in the original looks like he's pointing them out to Job and his friends, as he does in the book of Job; showing them to Job and making example of them and their attributes. The God in Schwarzwald's picture looks more like he's looking down angrily on the beasts, and like he's ordering them to do something. (Probably the role of the director coming out in the image.)
In any case, supposedly the Behemoth and the Leviathan do battle on Judgement Day and both are destroyed; the righteous then feed on the meat of the Behemoth, who sort of represents the way of God. The Leviathan represents otherwise. As this applies to Big O; the Big O might be like the Behemoth (kind of a connexion between man and God [the director], and also a representation of what is right), and perhaps the Big Fau is like the Leviathan (that "Children of Pride" sounds especially like Alex Rosewater).
More may be found in the Bible, Job 40-41. I'll look into it more.
| GiantRobot | 12-02-2003 09:27 PM |
I've thought of some things to add to my previous post. It seems that both the Behemoth and the Leviathan represent a connexion between Earth and their respective sides; the Behemoth to God and the Leviathan to Satan. This is similar to the use of Big O for "good" and the use of Big Fau for "evil". On the Judgement Day, both are said to be destroyed, along with the Earth; this is a lot like when Big Venus comes to "judge" the two, destroying the stage of Paradigm City and eventually the two Bigs as well. Or perhaps not destroying, but eliminating them. At this point, the meat of the Behemoth becomes the link between humanity and God; or in the show, the unacting Big O becomes the connexion through which Roger communicates to Big Venus / Angel. Then, God (or Big Venus) recreates the world (the New Jerusalem, or Paradigm City), similar to how we see the end of the show.
Another point that strengthens the Big O / Behemoth and Big Fau / Leviathan bond, is how Big O is a creature of the land (like the Behemoth), while Big Fau is a creature of the sea (like the Leviathan). For evidence of the last, note the Big Fau's ease of movement underwater in the last episode.
It is not my desire to state that the purpose of the Big O was merely to model the scenes outlined in the Christian Bible; however, the parallels are quite obvious. [Also, I'm now quite sure I've hyperextended the purpose of this thread; if these ideas are expressed elsewhere, I apologize.]
Another point that strengthens the Big O / Behemoth and Big Fau / Leviathan bond, is how Big O is a creature of the land (like the Behemoth), while Big Fau is a creature of the sea (like the Leviathan). For evidence of the last, note the Big Fau's ease of movement underwater in the last episode.
It is not my desire to state that the purpose of the Big O was merely to model the scenes outlined in the Christian Bible; however, the parallels are quite obvious. [Also, I'm now quite sure I've hyperextended the purpose of this thread; if these ideas are expressed elsewhere, I apologize.]
| SharpDressedMan | 12-02-2003 09:34 PM |
I never looked at this image so deeply until right now. Now that I've seen it for what it truly is it's quite thought provoking. So that means that the Big O must be symbolized as the Behemoth... and then if the leviathan is Fau then does anyone think that means that Schwarzwald knew of Fau all along and just never decided to open his mouth about it. It's not that hard to believe that he knew a lot more than he said but it's just kinda weird that they didn't give him a bigger part. For someone that's often considered to be one of the series best characters he sure did recieve sorta the shaft towords the end.
| GiantRobot | 12-03-2003 11:12 AM |
The more I look at it, I believe I made a mistake earlier with my judgements on the Leviathan and the Behemoth; rather, I've come to a different conclusion now that is probably more correct.
BACKGROUND:
According to the mythos expressed in the Bible, God created the Behemoth and the Leviathan on the Fifth Day. They were too powerful to coexist, so they were given different dominions: the Sea for the Leviathan and the Land for the Behemoth. Both of these creatures represent some aspect of sin: the Leviathan, with its leopard coat, represents Pride and the Behemoth, with its ravenous apetite, represents Gluttony. God later points out to Job that these are both creatures of sin, that were created by Him, the Sinless, and over which He has power. It is said that on the day of Judgement, the two beasts shall destroy each other; and the World shall be made anew. (I've also read that the Angel Gabriel is meant to attempt to destroy the beasts, but won't be powerful enough to stop the work of God, so the beasts destroy each other.)
COMPARISON TO THE BIG O:
Physical Attributes: by looking at physical attributes, Big O is like the Behemoth (operates best on land, has stalwart defenses), while Big Fau is like the Leviathan (operates well underwater, has elaborate design like to a leopard coat of pride, created from parts brought over the sea).
Events: in considering the events of the show, one can see the parallels in the final fight between the two Bigs (where both are pretty much destroyed), in the "judgement" of Big Venus, and in the recasting of the World.
Relationships: relationships between characters are also in parallel: that between the Leviathan and the Behemoth is like that between Big Fau and Big O, and also how Big Venus seems like a contradiciton to the other two and still has control over them (like God to the beasts).
Alignment: Big Fau's alignment seems a lot like the Leviathan's: sin and evil resulting from Pride. Unfortunately, I can't find where Big O fits here. It doesn't seem that he does.
TWO VIEWS ON THE BEHEMOTH AND GABRIEL
(both of which are flawed):
[1] Behemoth (show) = Behemoth (Bible); Big O (show) = Gabriel (Bible); the alignments match (the Behemoth gluttonously 'hungering for memories' and Big O being a kind of savior), but not the events (final battle of Behemoth vs. Leviathan, also Gabriel didn't destroy the Behemoth)
[2] Big O (show) = Behemoth (Bible); Big Duo (show) = Gabriel (Bible); the events now match (like Big Duo trying to destroy Big O and failing), but the alignments don't (Big O doesn't seem a sin of Gluttony).
WILLIAM BLAKE:
OK, finally back to the original purpose of this thread, a relation to William Blake. Blake was interested in the way that contradictions and opposites are actually quite necessary for each other [see The Marriage Of Heaven And Hell]; so the Behemoth / Leviathan matchup is an example of that (Land vs. Sea). Also, like Schwarzwald, he believed his primary purpose to be to expose humanity to the Truth (which often included such paradoxes as the contradiction thing): "I rest not from my great task! To open the Eternal Words, To open the immortal Eyes Of Man inwards into the Worlds of Thoughts, into Eternity" ["The Poet's Task And Prayer"]. In this way, Schwarzwald and Blake are really very similar.
Whew! I think I'm done.
BACKGROUND:
According to the mythos expressed in the Bible, God created the Behemoth and the Leviathan on the Fifth Day. They were too powerful to coexist, so they were given different dominions: the Sea for the Leviathan and the Land for the Behemoth. Both of these creatures represent some aspect of sin: the Leviathan, with its leopard coat, represents Pride and the Behemoth, with its ravenous apetite, represents Gluttony. God later points out to Job that these are both creatures of sin, that were created by Him, the Sinless, and over which He has power. It is said that on the day of Judgement, the two beasts shall destroy each other; and the World shall be made anew. (I've also read that the Angel Gabriel is meant to attempt to destroy the beasts, but won't be powerful enough to stop the work of God, so the beasts destroy each other.)
COMPARISON TO THE BIG O:
Physical Attributes: by looking at physical attributes, Big O is like the Behemoth (operates best on land, has stalwart defenses), while Big Fau is like the Leviathan (operates well underwater, has elaborate design like to a leopard coat of pride, created from parts brought over the sea).
Events: in considering the events of the show, one can see the parallels in the final fight between the two Bigs (where both are pretty much destroyed), in the "judgement" of Big Venus, and in the recasting of the World.
Relationships: relationships between characters are also in parallel: that between the Leviathan and the Behemoth is like that between Big Fau and Big O, and also how Big Venus seems like a contradiciton to the other two and still has control over them (like God to the beasts).
Alignment: Big Fau's alignment seems a lot like the Leviathan's: sin and evil resulting from Pride. Unfortunately, I can't find where Big O fits here. It doesn't seem that he does.
TWO VIEWS ON THE BEHEMOTH AND GABRIEL
(both of which are flawed):
[1] Behemoth (show) = Behemoth (Bible); Big O (show) = Gabriel (Bible); the alignments match (the Behemoth gluttonously 'hungering for memories' and Big O being a kind of savior), but not the events (final battle of Behemoth vs. Leviathan, also Gabriel didn't destroy the Behemoth)
[2] Big O (show) = Behemoth (Bible); Big Duo (show) = Gabriel (Bible); the events now match (like Big Duo trying to destroy Big O and failing), but the alignments don't (Big O doesn't seem a sin of Gluttony).
WILLIAM BLAKE:
OK, finally back to the original purpose of this thread, a relation to William Blake. Blake was interested in the way that contradictions and opposites are actually quite necessary for each other [see The Marriage Of Heaven And Hell]; so the Behemoth / Leviathan matchup is an example of that (Land vs. Sea). Also, like Schwarzwald, he believed his primary purpose to be to expose humanity to the Truth (which often included such paradoxes as the contradiction thing): "I rest not from my great task! To open the Eternal Words, To open the immortal Eyes Of Man inwards into the Worlds of Thoughts, into Eternity" ["The Poet's Task And Prayer"]. In this way, Schwarzwald and Blake are really very similar.
Whew! I think I'm done.
| Zopwx2 | 12-03-2003 09:07 PM |
Just more of the many references and symbols in big o......
But if this act 26 is a recreation of the battle betwenn leviathan and behemoth it kind of betrays the rest of the story that started in ep 1.
But if this act 26 is a recreation of the battle betwenn leviathan and behemoth it kind of betrays the rest of the story that started in ep 1.
| Silv3rKnigh1 | 02-15-2004 04:26 PM |
Take a look at these 2 pics the real one(left) and the one in the show (right)
Why do u think that is?
[edit: Threads merged. --Almasy]
Why do u think that is?
[edit: Threads merged. --Almasy]
| Piano Black | 02-15-2004 05:41 PM |
Yeah we noticed that too.
| seraphjei | 02-15-2004 05:46 PM |
wow this pic is deep. and i mean emotionally. I think it repersents the end of the world the top guy is god and the people next to him is angels. the boar must be symbolic of a plague such as the mad cow disease(wait mad cow isnt a plague) ok aneways the serpent of course must repersent the devil emerging from hell or in the pictures case an ocean. Oh and the people cowering in fear must be humans.
I told you the picture was deep where did you get it aneway
I told you the picture was deep where did you get it aneway
| Mike | 02-15-2004 05:48 PM |
It's from the Bible. I don't know which book. Probably Revelations.
Leviathan is the sea monster. Behemoth is the monster of the land. They fight, and God destroys both of them.
At least, I think that's how it goes.
Leviathan is the sea monster. Behemoth is the monster of the land. They fight, and God destroys both of them.
At least, I think that's how it goes.