I am what I am - Poor Dorothy......

I got a little sad when Roger and Big O tried to rescue Dorothy and both their arms were stretched up but they couldn't reach her. I almost collasped when Big Duo appeared! What did Dorothy mean when she said " I am what I am", I originally thought she was telling Roger something or that she was trying to tell him not to fall in love with her because she is an android and he is human." I will have the same body". Added to that she was kidnapped!! Do you think that Dorothy was sad or something? Also Beck seemed reluctant to follow through until Alan presented him with that order of excecution. A change of concious or just afriad of being unproffessional.

Dorothy's line is very telling of one thing: I think she knows a lot more about the "tomatoes" than she ever cared to tell us. By saying that she will always have the same body and heart, unlike Roger, she seems to suggest that she knows that Roger holds memories of somebody who is already deceased.

Dorothy has fallen into the same trap as Instro did in relation to the use of Constanze.

She is an android. She has memories that people want. Dark, dangerous memories. She has an idea of what they will be used for, and she had come to the conclusion that is what she is for - that was what she was specifically made for.

'I am what I am' - an android, an instrument to be used for destruction. She is not human - so why should she have 'free will' even if she thought otherwise?

She is still an android, an instrument. (See the anime 'Metropolis' to get a better idea.)

As for Beck, you can tell he didn't like what he was doing. He doesn't commit the same crime twice, and he's kidnapped Dorothy once already (and got his ass handed to him in the process). He may be a criminal, but he's a gentleman criminal.

You can see that they want Dorothy's memories for Big Fau. Will they strap her again? Like Dorothy One? I shudder to think that, it will be an evil battle for Roger I mean.

Dorothy also said something about Dorothy 1, The Archtype, Leviathan all wanting her for her memories during her kidnaping. I was frustrated because Dorothy gave up on herself really. Maybe she thinks she can't escape anymore. Her memories and the Archtype talking to her,trying to make a conection and telling her "You're the same as me" probably made her go crazy in a way. Because she has human feelings and yet is not a human, because she is a robot and yet not like one, she is different from everyone. Everything will change and she won't, she doesn't want that to happened. Dorothy doesn't want to feel bad anymore, possibly she knows Roger would reject her if she ever tried to get close because of her being an android. She's not human she will never grow old, she will never bleed, she will never have what they have. She will never be a machine, she can't be as perfect and cold as a robot no matter how she tries because of her human-like feelings. Yet she is not like the other androids, she doesn't resemble them, she is far more different than them, she has memories they don't. The only ones who seem to want her are the Megadeuses for using purposes and maybe she felt she should just go away to make everything better?

Dorothy is going through the same thing that Roger did "Who am I?" and adding a little bit og "What am I doing here? What was I made for? Why am I not like the others?" When you are different from everyone else it usually comes to a person wanting to commit some kind of destruction be their owns or someone elses, sometimes they just want to get away from it all.

I mean she felt bad about lying to Norman, probably because an Android shouldn't lie and she did...Now she might think she's a freak or something out of the common.

I think that whatever happens in the future it won't be pretty

I think she means this...similar to Lady Tesser:

No matter what feelings she has or may have or learned to have, no matter what desires she has as well...she will always be an android, her "destiny" was to always be a tool or to be used to better something. Her purpose was always a means to an ends, not to feel, not to be able to adapt or to change with an environment. She will always be the way she is.

And, speculation only on my part, THAT is the solution to Paradigm City. Dorothy must CHOOSE instead of being acted upon.

It doesn't matter that her body will never change. It doesn't matter that she is what she is. The only way out of her dilemma is through.

And I think she's ready.

Dorothy realized that even though she had deep feeling inside of her heart for Roger that there was no escaping the fact that she wasn't built for feeling love. That is why she really shows almost no sighns of struggle once she has been captured. This has been a real question with me about dorothy lately since the past few episodes she really hasn't put up much of a fight when attacked. Could perhaps this be Dorothy saying that she realises that she can never really be with Roger in the way she would like to be (you know what I mean) and that she doesn't care what happens to her body since there is no point in carrying on?

quote:

Originally posted by SharpDressedMan Dorothy realized that even though she had deep feeling inside of her heart for Roger that there was no escaping the fact that she wasn't built for feeling love. That is why she really shows almost no sighns of struggle once she has been captured. This has been a real question with me about dorothy lately since the past few episodes she really hasn't put up much of a fight when attacked. Could perhaps this be Dorothy saying that she realises that she can never really be with Roger in the way she would like to be (you know what I mean) and that she doesn't care what happens to her body since there is no point in carrying on?

I agree. ROGER DO SOMETHING.....SAY YOU LOVE HER.... I was shouting that. I think that would be the only thing that would give Dorothy the will to go on that or if Roger was in trouble.

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Originally posted by GummiBear289 I agree. ROGER DO SOMETHING.....SAY YOU LOVE HER.... I was shouting that. I think that would be the only thing that would give Dorothy the will to go on that or if Roger was in trouble.

I was thinking along those lines myself. If Roger said "Dorothy! I need you! Fight for ME!" she would have broken free in a heartbeat.

I would like to sit her down in a motherly way and say "dear, yes, it's true, you aren't going to change and he is going to get old and die, but you have something in return. You will always be able to remember everything about him perfectly, in every detail, and those memories will always make you happy. So tell him how you feel."

quote:

Originally posted by SharpDressedMan Dorothy realized that even though she had deep feeling inside of her heart for Roger that there was no escaping the fact that she wasn't built for feeling love. That is why she really shows almost no sighns of struggle once she has been captured. This has been a real question with me about dorothy lately since the past few episodes she really hasn't put up much of a fight when attacked. Could perhaps this be Dorothy saying that she realises that she can never really be with Roger in the way she would like to be (you know what I mean) and that she doesn't care what happens to her body since there is no point in carrying on?

ummmmm......... good point !! dang it roger come on!! do sumthing you louse!! lol!

Yea at the end of the day, Dorothy was built as a copy, never as something unique and i guess she feels that unlike other people she can never change that. Dorothy was never born,she was built

Hence why Roger said "You need control yor own destiny"

at least i think he said that

Something makes me wonder about Beck...

spoiler (highlight to read):

In some clips I've seen, it seems that Beck feels bad for her! Since, after her memories are taken (the disc thing) he still watches over her. That scene I believe is in one of Megadeus' clips.

So maybe Beck DOES have heart...

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Originally posted by R. Umino Something makes me wonder about Beck... spoiler (highlight to read): In some clips I've seen, it seems that Beck feels bad for her! Since, after her memories are taken (the disc thing) he still watches over her. That scene I believe is in one of Megadeus' clips. So maybe Beck DOES have heart...

awwwww... thats special! maybe he does you never know!! 100th post!

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Originally posted by Sexy Eyebrows quote: Originally posted by R. Umino Something makes me wonder about Beck... spoiler (highlight to read): In some clips I've seen, it seems that Beck feels bad for her! Since, after her memories are taken (the disc thing) he still watches over her. That scene I believe is in one of Megadeus' clips. So maybe Beck DOES have heart... awwwww... thats special! maybe he does you never know!! 100th post!

100 post!! *puts on party hat* Yay for Sexy Eyebrows! Welcome to the seniors club my friend!

I dont usally get sad/worried for characters in a show but I was for Dorothy. I'm kinda worried about myself.

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Originally posted by Mr. ? I dont usally get sad/worried for characters in a show but I was for Dorothy. I'm kinda worried about myself.

I felt so sad and worried too! It's weird because it isn't a feeling you would usaully have over an animated character. But with characters like Dorothy you can't help but get attached.My stomach churned as she was pulling away from the mansion. Poor Dorothy. She loves Roger but she is afriad he won't accept her love because Roger has reminded her so feverously that she is an andriod. Roger LOVES her, I hope he declares his love before it's too late!

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Originally posted by Sixfortyfive Dorothy's line is very telling of one thing: I think she knows a lot more about the "tomatoes" than she ever cared to tell us. By saying that she will always have the same body and heart, unlike Roger, she seems to suggest that she knows that Roger holds memories of somebody who is already deceased.

That's what I was thinking, too. I sorta mentioned this in another thread but,

spoiler (highlight to read):

"I am not like you, Roger, I will always have this same body and this same heart" seems to point directly to the fact that Roger is Major Smith's tomato. We even see Major Smith with Gordon Rosewater in the photo in Act 25. Is the former Lt. Roger Smith a clone, or is he a variation/permutation of the original? Like Beck is a clone/variation/permutation of Banker Beck in Act 14? How do the tomatoes get made? For that matter, how long will Dorothy exist? If her body will stay the same, does that mean she survives from one loop to the next?

I also found this very telling:

When Dorothy is communicating with the scorpion bots, she says to Norman, "They want the memories inside me, the memories I am not aware of. They are horrifying, but even I am not able to...detect how horrifying they are."

The last half of that statement seems to suggest that she does know that the memories inside of her are quite dark, but maybe she doesn't know to what extent. Someone somewhere (sorry I don't know whom to attribute this! ) speculated that Dorothy is a type of lockbox and holds the memories of ALL of Paradigm. What she told Norman seems to suggest that. How much access does she have to these memories? If she does have memories of the Event

spoiler (highlight to read):

and knows destruction is coming again

, that is probably also contributing to her fatalistic attitude.

At any rate, we now know exactly why Paradigm Co. had R. Frederick O'Reilly scan Dorothy's memories. If she's not completely aware of everything in her memories, Alex Rosewater sure is. This leads me to another question that supports the "lockbox" theory:

The Bigs are very specific about their dominus' memories. If Rosewater can use Dorothy's memories for Big Fau, does this mean she carries ALL the dominus' memories as well?

quote:

Originally posted by "Yeah, but..." quote: Originally posted by Sixfortyfive Dorothy's line is very telling of one thing: I think she knows a lot more about the "tomatoes" than she ever cared to tell us. By saying that she will always have the same body and heart, unlike Roger, she seems to suggest that she knows that Roger holds memories of somebody who is already deceased. That's what I was thinking, too. I sorta mentioned this in another thread but, spoiler (highlight to read): "I am not like you, Roger, I will always have this same body and this same heart" seems to point directly to the fact that Roger is Major Smith's tomato. We even see Major Smith with Gordon Rosewater in the photo in Act 25. Is the former Lt. Roger Smith a clone, or is he a variation/permutation of the original? Like Beck is a clone/variation/permutation of Banker Beck in Act 14? How do the tomatoes get made? For that matter, how long will Dorothy exist? If her body will stay the same, does that mean she survives from one loop to the next? I also found this very telling: When Dorothy is communicating with the scorpion bots, she says to Norman, "They want the memories inside me, the memories I am not aware of. They are horrifying, but even I am not able to...detect how horrifying they are." The last half of that statement seems to suggest that she does know that the memories inside of her are quite dark, but maybe she doesn't know to what extent. Someone somewhere (sorry I don't know whom to attribute this! ) speculated that Dorothy is a type of lockbox and holds the memories of ALL of Paradigm. What she told Norman seems to suggest that. How much access does she have to these memories? If she does have memories of the Event spoiler (highlight to read): and knows destruction is coming again , that is probably also contributing to her fatalistic attitude. At any rate, we now know exactly why Paradigm Co. had R. Frederick O'Reilly scan Dorothy's memories. If she's not completely aware of everything in her memories, Alex Rosewater sure is. This leads me to another question that supports the "lockbox" theory: The Bigs are very specific about their dominus' memories. If Rosewater can use Dorothy's memories for Big Fau, does this mean she carries ALL the dominus' memories as well?

Welcome! Very interesting! Excellent analysis.

spoiler (highlight to read):

Dorothy is really a keeper of secrets. Do you remember that I can lie too thing.She was given Dorothy's memories about the past including her memories of Major Smith. She remembered those memories of love when Beck was controlling her in The Greatest Villian.Dorothy may know about the Megadeuses memories because most likely Timothy Wayneright was the creator of the megadeuses.I'm also guessing Tim was a foriegner.

quote:

Originally posted by StevieV019 I think she means this...similar to Lady Tesser: No matter what feelings she has or may have or learned to have, no matter what desires she has as well...she will always be an android, her "destiny" was to always be a tool or to be used to better something. Her purpose was always a means to an ends, not to feel, not to be able to adapt or to change with an environment. She will always be the way she is.

*puts finger to nose*

Bingo...

She was basically saying it was her destiny...

I'll have to agree with that.


IMO She was basically saying she couldn't runaway anymore and ... well, you know, she's lost. She's lost in that world, she was supposed to be an android with a purpose but she couldn't find it.

And it hit her when somebod knows about her memories better than herself...

So, I think she thinks it was her destiny, and she couldn't do anything anymore to prevent that. She surrendered.