Big O Repeats: Week 4, Episodes 13-16 Discussion

Don't anybody miss R-D tonight. This episode scared me half to death the first time I saw it.

...And the rest of the way the next time

-- A Zombie Tomato

That's what I wanna' hear.
I'm feelin' it.

15 minutes in, and I already love this episode.

Unrelated note: R.D. is AWESOME, whats that first thing it says, something like "You...you must know...soon, you will know" when roger has his first flashback/dream/vision/etc?

quote:

Originally posted by Sharpshooter005 15 minutes in, and I already love this episode. Unrelated note: R.D. is AWESOME, whats that first thing it says, something like "You...you must know...soon, you will know" when roger has his first flashback/dream/vision/etc?

I sort of miss it ending like that as much as i like season 2. lol

okay, seeing RD again has given me a new theory.

Roger: Approximately 15 years ago, you had memories of the the past implanted into the minds of several children. Four of them started remembering and they were assassinated because of it.

*Gordon picks up a large tomato and happily takes a bite of it*

Roger: Why would something like this be necessary?

Gordon:These tomatoes are reproduced synthetically with only the memories of the sweet, flavorful original. If we keep repeating the process, this fruit will eventually become the real thing.

Okay.

We have hybrid fruits and vegetables now, right? And theoretically, if you back-crossed these plants over enough time, you should be able to recreate their progenitors. (Assuming of course the hybrids aren't sterile, which most of them are not)

spoiler (highlight to read):

Where would you look for memories of humans if there were no humans around? In DNA, of course. Theoretically speaking, if we were advanced enough to really actively tweak DNA, and in the show, we know they are due to the Eugene episode, we could splice genes from several species and start back-crossing until we got a human again. What if there was some kind of disaster and Roger was the last living human (why he is "special") and what if humankind's androids were trying to figure out how to bring the humans back? So every time the city gets reset, the humans are "culled" and only the ones that are closest to actual human beings as measured by Roger's DNA are preserved, to begin the cycle anew until there are enough people to create a breeding population? (These tomatoes are reproduced synthetically with only the memories of the sweet, flavorful original. If we keep repeating the process, this fruit will eventually become the real thing.) I have said before that it sounded to me that when Gordon talked about memories, he was speaking of DNA. What if that final negotiation was Roger convincing the "director" running the show that the experiment was, while not completely successful, successful enough? The implanted memories would make perfect sense because without them, we aren't human, thus they would be necessary. The lack of artifacts would likely be because so much time had passed more than anything.

Definitely a fun speculation

I'm catching RD on the second run, so I'm a little behind in posting this (again). As usual, post your thoughts here, and enjoy the first replaying of the Season 2 episodes as well as arguably the best ep from Season 1!

(Also, I'm moving any posts on RD from the previous discussion thread to this one.)

RD has always been one of my favorite episodes. The exchange between Roger and R.D. in the subway had that "key to unlock the whole story" feel to it.

When Roger was underground, being chased by Red Destiny, he tried calling Big O, without result. The thing I noticed was that the watch "hands" (the circle and triangle that appear to represent minutes and hours) did not appear either.

That made me wonder if the "watch" is no timepiece on its own, but a radio receiver that displays a watch face as its default. (That reminds me of Juni's "watch" in Spy Kids 2 -- too much stuff, no room for a watch !)

Pygmalion

This seems to be the episode where it was decided that things should really start moving along.
So much new information was introduced - not least of it being a wicked nightmare, three Bigs running aroung wrecking the place, and Angel's curious penchant for flying ballons(?) in the wind while at the beach.

Seeing the words CAST IN THE NAME OF GOD - YE NOT GUILTY scrawlled-out in lipstick sure must get your attention if you are the city's covert Megadeus pilot.

Ah-ah-ah!
Roger, don't interrupt Norman as he's servicing Big O.
You remember what happened last time, don't you?

I wonder what brought that nightmare of Roger's on.
Is this the first time he's had it?
It's so sudden.
And that third, white Big seems quite the thing.

What was it that hapenned between Dastun and Roger in the past?
He almost seems eager to pin the murders on him.

Even with bare shelves, you sometime meet the most engaging conversationalists at the library.
Apparently, Roger's secret identity isn't so secret any more.

Where's Dorothy? I haven't seen her much, lately.
Aww.
It's nice to be appreciated.

Alex is gazing at the repairs being performed on Big Duo with very large stars in his eyes.
Wonder who is performing the work.

Damn.
Gordon's book sounds like a pretty good read from the way he describes it.
If Roger's like me, he's holding-back from asking the old man to stop speaking in riddles.

R-D.
I really had hoped that her voice would be a bit more provocative.
No bother.
Any little lady that can handle herself like that has my respect.

Well, maybe if you weren't so busy, you would notice me.
That's tellin' 'em.
Dorothy somehow looks right at the controls of Big O.
The interior goes with her hair.

You know, there seems no better way for a guy and a girl to bond than to have her help him handle his equipment.
What a cute sight - the two of them standing at the ready to take-on this new adversary.
*swoons*

It seems like the whole town has come out to greet those approaching foreign robots.
And man, what a tantalizing, Chromebusting cliff-hanger.
I feel for you guys that saw the series the first time around; seeing it end like that - and having to wait years for #14 - must have been difficult, to say the least.
But.
At least it was understandable.
A classic cliffhanger.

That was great.
Now I know what it is that we are working towards, and what it is that Roger is probably going to risk his life to find out about.
An important episode.
Bring-on #14.

My "As I See Them" ranking:
1) Roger the Negotiator
2) Daemonseed
3) Underground Terror
4) R-D
5) Beck Comes Back
6) Enemy Is Another Big!
7) Missing Cat
8.) Dorothy, Dorothy
9) Electric City
10) A Call From the Past
11) A Legacy of Amadeus
12) Winter Night Phantom
13) Bring Back my Ghost

1. This is the episode that really sets the foundation for S.2. You can pretty much see the roots of all of season 2 (except the last episode) here.

2. Datsun really doesn't trust Roger. First, he was willing to believe that Roger was a kidnapper, now a serial killer?

3. Roger suggested that R-D "woke up" in one of the underground tunnels. It seems likely that both R-D and R. Dorothy are pre-event artifacts, and Soldano and Wainwright stuck Dorothy Wainwright's memories into an RD unit rather than building her from scratch.

4. So androids aren't supposed to be able to harm humans, huh? That explains why Dorothy never puts up much of a fight.

5. Why does R-D call Roger by first name? Just so that we'll think she's Dorothy?

6. Where did the book come from? Alex didn't want Roger to have it, so it wasn't him. The suspects seem to be (1) Angel, acting on her own; (2) magic; or (3) some agent of Gordon's.

7. Gordon says the book is all lies, and that it's about a megadeus war before the event. I guess this is our warning that Roger's flashbacks are probably lies too.

8. I love Roger's response to Norman's question about whether he wonders where his pilot memories came from. "Sure! Um, I mean no." Roger's an amiable louse, that's for sure.

9. Roger's raised eyebrow when Dorothy puts her hand on his is also great.

10. R-D says that if a megadeus pilot is not controlled, he must be killed. Is it possible that the wiring effect is a safeguard to regulate the pilots? (Kind of a dashboard breathalyzer to serve as a backup for the not guilty check). Roger's refusal to be wired is his decision to walk in the rain without an umbrella.

spoiler (highlight to read):

More specifically, maybe Big O wouldn't give Roger the super cannon because, as a non-wired pilot, he couldn't be trusted with that much power. By wiring herself, Dorothy either vouched for their good intentions or hacked the system.

11. Is R-D dead? The last I saw of her, she was on top of Big O's fist, but I would imagine she could survive the fall, especially into water.

12. The "three big" flashback is cool, even if Gordon's comments about the book suggest that it's fake.

quote:

Originally posted by Sesshoumaru 11. Is R-D dead? The last I saw of her, she was on top of Big O's fist, but I would imagine she could survive the fall, especially into water. .

The disc tray from her skull is shown clearly, lying by itself in the debris. The disc is cracked. I'd say she's dead.

By the way, did everyone notice that, when Roger say R-D's face and thought she was Dorothy, he stopped fighting? I don't think it was just shock. He can't bring himself to hurt Dorothy, even at the cost of his own life.

quote:

Originally posted by Sesshoumaru 6. Where did the book come from? Alex didn't want Roger to have it, so it wasn't him. The suspects seem to be (1) Angel, acting on her own; (2) magic; or (3) some agent of Gordon's. 9. Roger's raised eyebrow when Dorothy puts her hand on his is also great. 10. R-D says that if a megadeus pilot is not controlled, he must be killed. Is it possible that the wiring effect is a safeguard to regulate the pilots? (Kind of a dashboard breathalyzer to serve as a backup for the not guilty check). Roger's refusal to be wired is his decision to walk in the rain without an umbrella. spoiler (highlight to read): More specifically, maybe Big O wouldn't give Roger the super cannon because, as a non-wired pilot, he couldn't be trusted with that much power. By wiring herself, Dorothy either vouched for their good intentions or hacked the system. 12. The "three big" flashback is cool, even if Gordon's comments about the book suggest that it's fake.

Re: 6. Knowing the end of it all I would say a combonation of 1 and 2.
Re: 9. He is genuinely surprised that she would be willing to help him in this way.
Re: 10. Yes, that can work as a safeguard of sorts to prevent "the doomsday weapon" from being used without proper athority.
Re: 12. Of course it is. The same way that Godzilla is still cool even we all know it is some guy in a rubber suit walking around trashing a miniture model of Tokyo.

Damn, Zola.
That theory of yours is really something, BTW.

quote:

Originally posted by Wingnut quote: Originally posted by Sesshoumaru 9. Roger's raised eyebrow when Dorothy puts her hand on his is also great. Re: 9. He is genuinely surprised that she would be willing to help him in this way.

I took it as a Roger-the-louse moment, either:

1) "She digs me" or

2) "The only thing hotter than kicking butt with a a 20-story robot or holding a pretty girl's hand for the first time is doing both at the same time."

Zola, your theory is great. One of the biggest missing pieces in my mind has been why the paradigm-city simulation was being run - i think you may have just answered it It would explain alot - particularly Angel's comments about it being too soon - its seems like Roger has been prodded all along to 'manifest' something, and Angel thinks Alex (and Gordon?) are rushing things too much. That their actions might be rushing the 'culling' process, producing undesireable results in the 'crop'

Ironically, I was vaguely dancing around the same area (in my mind), when I mentioned Roger might be the only human, in the Schwartzwald thread. Facinating

First time seeing this episode... WOW.

Here's my standard random scattering of thoughts, and a few comments on Zola's theory.

All the drips and the rain leaking into various places serve as a metaphor for the memories which keep leaking back into the people of the city. So the "umbrella" versus dancing in the rain might have something to do with the way you choose to respond to those memories. But Season 2 seems to complicate that metaphor... perhaps going without an umbrella has more to do with IGNORING the rain than with enjoying it. After all, if you're trying to forget the rain entirely, while holding up an umbrella, the umbrella itself will always serve as a reminder.

Are the domes another version of umbrella?

I think the "tomato" metaphor has been well-explored already, so I mostly have questions about it for more expert members of the community:
1. Roger says memories were implanted 15 years ago. How old would Roger himself have been then?
2. Are there any suggestions that these implanted memories relate to the other Memories? To the ability to pilot a Megadeus?
3. Norman is clearly older than Roger... far too old to have been in this "batch" of people with implanted memories. Any idea if his memories come from the same source, or perhaps from Big O?

The conversation between Norman and Roger was wonderful... note that the face-plate of Big O could be more properly described as a mask. (Big Duo's was clearly a mask, and the comparison made clear, in the previous episode). Are both Norman and Roger "masks" for Big O?

That question relates to Zola's theory, which I'll spin a different way.

spoiler (highlight to read):

Suppose Paradigm isn't about developing synthetic human beings (or perhaps, not JUST about that), but about developing a hybrid between humans and androids (or humans and megadeuses). R. Dorothy seems to embody that hybrid quite well, but she may also be a physical manifestation of the relationship between Big O and Roger. R-D, conversely, may be a manifestation of an earlier model or alternate model of relationship between Big and Dominus, where one or the other MUST be in control. It doesn't seem to me that R-D cares which. Come to think of it, R-D could stand for Robot-Dominus, couldn't it?

That probably didn't need to be listed as a spoiler, but there it is...

Here's a question related to Zola's theory but sufficiently vague that I don't think it spoils anything. How many deaths do we know about of people in Paradigm who are evidently people?

Androids don't bleed. Roger bleeds in R-D. It looks like the victims of R-D bled. R. Dorothy's "father" bled.

spoiler (highlight to read):

If Zola is correct, I don't think we can necessarily conclude that Roger is the only human... or that Roger is human at all. His name is, after all, R. Smith. We could assume everyone is synthetic, or that everyone is an android, or that everyone is human. My guess is that Season 2 will just make it harder and harder to guess. But there is unmistakably something different or special about those who can pilot a Megadeus... something important.

Here's another thought--the basket of ripe tomatoes brought out to Gordon pointedly has FIVE tomatoes in it.

How many names on R-D's list?

Also, if R-D is associated with a Big (something I suspect), which big is associated with the color Red?

Narsham

quote:

Originally posted by Narsham spoiler (highlight to read): If Zola is correct, I don't think we can necessarily conclude that Roger is the only human... or that Roger is human at all. His name is, after all, R. Smith. We could assume everyone is synthetic, or that everyone is an android, or that everyone is human. My guess is that Season 2 will just make it harder and harder to guess. But there is unmistakably something different or special about those who can pilot a Megadeus... something important.

spoiler (highlight to read):

Not the only human, not now. The only "true", original human. Maybe that was part of the criteria for piloting the megadeus? Human DNA?

I really think I am on to something here

I'm looking forward to seeing ROGER THE WANDERER again tonight. I've only ever seen it once (neglected to tape it), which really isn't enough even for the simplest BIG O episode, which this one certainly isn't!

Bring it on.
I'm feelin' it.
*loads tape into VCR with stars in eyes and clenched teeth*

I've STILL never seen Roger the Wanderer. Stupid work. I'm forcing myself to stay up late enough to watch it tonight.