The Secrets of the BIG-O Soundtracks?

I've mentioned this before as a side note on threads, but I'm not sure if this has ever been really discussed in depth.

Now that I've finally gotten both BIG-O Soundtracks, I can do this more accurately.

The secrets of the soundtracks I'm referring to: might the track titles, and certain tracks themselves have significance to the story and provide more evidence for Season 3?

Based on where the songs appear in the show and what they're called, I'm guessing the composer Toshihiko Sahashi had some level of detailed conversations with Konaka and other writers on The BIG-O. It says something in of itself that the effort was put in to make an all-new Season 2 Soundtrack.

The number of strongly religious titles stick out majorly:
Stoning, Name of God, Spirit, Apostle, Sin, The Holy, Eternal Life...Divine, Prayer x3 are some that really stand out. Three prayers? The whole thing with Instro in the church. We're really hit over the head with the music and religious or biblical undertones without even going into the visual symbolism noted in older threads. The theme song even states: "Cast in the Name of God, Ye Not Guilty"

By the way: TRACK 13, "DIVINE".This was never played in the series I don't think... It really sounds like a grand song of final victory or resolve...was this music intended to close the series, but since the series is still waiting for more episodes, it wasn't used? If this is the case, this might further the religious connection even further. I mean, its a soothing song and the visuals I get when its playing is Paradigm's dark skies parting and becoming a shining blue...hmm.

Off the religion, some of these other titles that make one think. "Obfusicate"--wow, the perfect title for what its used for and how it sounds. It means a state of total opaque confusion. I think Konaka wanted to give us that sense on purpose, thus the imagery of gears, robot Rogers, Dorothy dolls, etc. That was something he wanted to lead us out of eventually. But at this point in the series, we're not really supposed to understand if my theory on this title means anything.

"Chain" is used with roger as a wanderer, expressing that a part of him has not yet fully accepted who he is and his destiny. "Painful Dream" is used when Roger is a Wanderer, perhaps confirming as someone here on the forum has proposed (I think Clockwork Tomato maybe) that that part of the episode was in fact a dream of many different lives mixed together--but not chronologically or totally factually by any means.

A song with less importance but shows that there was again good thought ahead of time is "Token", the song for Beck's token robot that plays homage to past giant robots.

Anyways, that's all I've got for now. Thoughts?

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By the way: TRACK 13, "DIVINE".This was never played in the series I don't think... It really sounds like a grand song of final victory or resolve...was this music intended to close the series, but since the series is still waiting for more episodes, it wasn't used? If this is the case, this might further the religious connection even further. I mean, its a soothing song and the visuals I get when its playing is Paradigm's dark skies parting and becoming a shining blue...hmm

I've already talked about the role of Divine in the past. I even made an alternate ending video using "Divine" instead of "Appologize- Bleeker St."

It is a much more powerful song and would definately be used as the final showdown between Big O and Big Venus culminating in the *"end" of Paradigm City.


*'end' meaning the Paradigm City we knew from acts 1-26. This "new" Paradigm City is different in a couple of ways (Angel and Dorothy standing by each other, no Alex Rosewater as of yet...) but still we don't know HOW different the world is.

Have any one notice that the season 2 soundtrack has pics from season 1 in ep order? I wish the songs were longer. Some season 2 scores are remixes of the season 1 scores. Like Sure Promise Union SQ, Apologine sounds like apologize.

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Originally posted by Paradigm Dog The number of strongly religious titles stick out majorly: Stoning, Name of God, Spirit, Apostle, Sin, The Holy, Eternal Life...Divine, Prayer x3 are some that really stand out. Three prayers? The whole thing with Instro in the church. We're really hit over the head with the music and religious or biblical undertones without even going into the visual symbolism noted in older threads. The theme song even states: "Cast in the Name of God, Ye Not Guilty"

That one "Stoning" is used by the Iron Chef Italian Kobe theme from Iron Chef.

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Originally posted by evanASF27 quote: By the way: TRACK 13, "DIVINE".This was never played in the series I don't think... It really sounds like a grand song of final victory or resolve...was this music intended to close the series, but since the series is still waiting for more episodes, it wasn't used? If this is the case, this might further the religious connection even further. I mean, its a soothing song and the visuals I get when its playing is Paradigm's dark skies parting and becoming a shining blue...hmm I've already talked about the role of Divine in the past. I even made an alternate ending video using "Divine" instead of "Appologize- Bleeker St." It is a much more powerful song and would definately be used as the final showdown between Big O and Big Venus culminating in the *"end" of Paradigm City. *'end' meaning the Paradigm City we knew from acts 1-26. This "new" Paradigm City is different in a couple of ways (Angel and Dorothy standing by each other, no Alex Rosewater as of yet...) but still we don't know HOW different the world is.

Yeah the video matches up almost perfectly. I wonder why they didnt use it..........

I haven't been able to see the previously mentioned video here. But picturing the appearance of Big Venus, with Roger's speech, up to the point where it blends into Big-O and makes the world diappear using the song "Divine" doesn't seem to fit. It's too free and open of a song. The tension and almost unrequited feeling of hope in "Apologine" seems to work better and fits time-wise as well--the world is going to be a erased in a sense, and Roger tries to win some sort of --it's not a situation for a happy song; especially since negotiations only seem to work on a small level.

I still think "Divine" was meant to be used elsewhere. Afterall, the FULL ending has Roger back traveling the City of Amnesia in its half-ruined state with Brick Ballades playing. And Brick Ballades is a song of longing and mystery, turning away any hope for a tone of certainty and peaceful closure to end season 2.

I have the video if you want to see it, but it matches up with certain shots very well. its not a coincidence. it was written for that scene. But obviously they didn't like it.

I think Apologine fits better... Divine is too slow for the situation, whereas Apologine has an underlying urgency, which is relevant to what's going on... Roger has only about a minute to convince Angel before Big Venus reaches Big O.

I tell you that Divine was what was planned to end the season (and probably the series) with!

I'm uploadin' my video (again) so I'll soon have the link ready for you.

Divine - Alternate Ending (WARNING!! 15.7MB DOWNLOAD!)

No way. No way. That may be good, but it's WAY too climactic for my tastes at the ends, and too mellow at the beginning (although, I have to say, thank you SO MUCH for letting me relive that scene, Evan. I'd forgotten just how good it really was...)

Maybe if you provided us with that scene with the original music, for those that don't have the DVDs or other such nonsense?

Hrm..it manages to fit, but..I'm not so sure. I imagine the producers chose the best music for the scenario, or so they felt.

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Originally posted by Delta Hrm..it manages to fit, but..I'm not so sure. I imagine the producers chose the best music for the scenario, or so they felt.

Well then what would they have made Divine for? Rarely do shows make more music than they need to have...I mean, sure a couple of other pieces weren't used, but probably because at the last second they decided they didn't want it to seem like the last season.

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No way. No way. That may be good, but it's WAY too climactic for my tastes at the ends, and too mellow at the beginning (although, I have to say, thank you SO MUCH for letting me relive that scene, Evan. I'd forgotten just how good it really was...) Maybe if you provided us with that scene with the original music, for those that don't have the DVDs or other such nonsense?

(I'll take the first part as a compliment I suppose)
I'll upload the actual ending later tonight...but it will be compressed alot more (so not too great quality). (Hey! I need that bandwidth you know)

I thought that music was such a good fit.

They normally don't make more music then they have to? Not always true. Gundam Wing soundtracks have A LOT of incredible pieces that were not used in the series, and in other anime this has occured as well.

I haven't had a chance to watch it yet, but I've done some music study and have a very good ear I've used for rote in the past and visually with the music it doesn't work for the implications of the scene (and the brick ballades following thereafter). Especially since Season 2 is not "the end".

"The Show Must Go On" afterall and past interviews with creators pretty much demonstrate that this is a sort of "intermission" in the story of Big-O before the conclusion. "Divine" was made with the mindset that it'll end the seriesI think. They knew they couldn't finish the series with Season 2, so they saved it. I mean, the (sax version) of Brick Ballades on Season 2's soindtrack is from season 1 and YET it wasn't on that 1st soundtrack. There's a progressive state for BIG-O music. It's made with things in mind, but wheter or not it makes a soundtrack, or is used in that particular season first doesn't mean it won't eventually be used. It's an ending piece for a final solution for Paradigm--I'm talking about a "blue skies" conclusion where the Big-O story officially comes to a close. Maybe not every question will be answered, but the broad picture understood and the conflict resolved. Konaka's a guy who's done a "radio play" for BIG-O...he's going to end it with a traditional curtain close...only I imagine the curtains being painted tie-dye though. heh. (in other words, traditional plot pattern of eventually falling into a full resolution; but with a twist in presentation)

Wait for "Divine"...it has its place. And the title's implications and grand flare of peace in sound could refer to some sort of religious connotation such as Gordon's "Creator" he refers to.

Whatever the final solution of BIG-O, and the song "divine", it won't disappoint I'm sure.

Believe in Season 3.

All right, now I HAVE watched it. (got the my player and the file to agree)

First off, very well-done video. However, I have to say I do not agree that this is a good place for the music.

Watching it with that music the series felt even LESS resolved. The scene lost all tension and was like tip-toeing through the tulips...almost as if Roger was professing his love for Angel or something.

It really loses its posibility of fitting into the scene when ease and not high emotion is put into the two Bigs colliding..and EVEN MORE SO once we get to Roger driving. The way it trails happily into the rough streets of beat-up Paradigm doesn't fit whatsoever.

Sorry. Everyone has a right to their opinion...I'm just saying given the facts of this series' production and the way the scenes' music and pictures are choppy at conveying emotions with the new music track makes me believe even more than Divine is for a later event not yet witnessed.

And this is important. With 2 solid soundtracks with a variety of emotions/moods and sounds, BIG-O 3 will NOT need a NEW soundtrack. Like 2 borrowed from 1, 3 should just borrow completely from 1 and 2...creating continuity and presenting the strength of the versatile scores for the big picture of it all. Then Divine carries over and no questions asked. I think this may be the intention of the organization of the soundtracks.

"Apologine" is one of my favorite tracks. The urgency and desperate sadness in it fit the end of the series quite well to me. You'd be hard pressed to convince me that another song will work better.

"Divine", to me, sounds like it belongs with a scene that involves some kind of dramatic revelation or something. I don't know how to explain it.. but it does not, to me, match the end of episode 26. I think that if and when "Divine" is actually used, it will be well worth the wait to see what the writers had in mind for this song, because it's very grand and bright and strangely calming, and I can only assume that whatever scene goes with it will be also. )


EDIT: I just remembered-- I've been wondering about "and Forever-- Grand Central" for a while too. It reminds me of something from a musical or an old movie or something. It's so upbeat and pretty.. I have some vague ideas of what I thought it might go with (or if it's just a version they threw in for kicks), but I'm curious as to what everyone else thinks.

evanASF27-

Did you edit the ending visuals? I just noticed that Dorothy no longer announces Roger to Angel in the booth: "Roger, the Negotiatior". That normally happens as Angel gets teary and Roger puts a hand on her shoulder (or maybe it's Dorothy, but that point doesn't matter). Wouldn't that change the way the time sync up a bit?

Tifaria-

On Divine, I think you put it nicely: "it's very grand and bright and strangely calming, and I can only assume that whatever scene goes with it will be also."

I don't really recall such a BRIGHT, happy-resolve kinda song other than this song on the BIG-O Sound Scores. It sticks out as very different and unique--poigniently so. I think it will be used for a "happy ending" of sorts in the future.

Hmm...I don't know when the Grand Central version of "And Forever..." is used. In fact, I don't think it is used, which brings up another point about music made and not yet used. Doesn't mean it won't be used in the future of the story. "And Forever..." is definitely very touching and has to be involved with some sort of confession of love at some point I'd imagine--whether it's Roger-Angel or Roger-Dorothy, who can say.

Off subject for a sec, one thing I saw again is that Dorothy knows about Big Venus...very odd. I'm reminded to think that Dorothy and Angel have a stronger connection of roles than we realize here--especially given that she announces Roger in the booth to Angel and then stands next to Angel in the reset.

oh yah bash on my discovery

Anyways, yes I had to take out a few scenes in order to make it fit. HOWEVER, a good majority of it fit without having to be edited! Some things I had to work a bit but most of it (even the very end) worked out to be just about what was shown in the actual series. (I had to lengthen the pan of roger's call driving to the left tho I'll admit that part of the end)

My theory is, that if they didn't have the book there (having it just rewound with Gordon Rosewater) and having it all end with only Angel remaining...but then suddenly having the world reappear, would lead to a more mysterious instead of "WTF WAS THAT CRAP!?" ending. Musically speaking, Divine works alot better with that ending minus the book, some of the dorothy bits (sorry!), and roger reassuring angel, than with those parts in. Sure, "Appologize - Bleeker St." is a nice ending if they didn't want to end the series there, but seriously, Divine makes it seem almost romantic and "enevitable" (if you get my understanding).

evanASF27, sorry, didn't mean to make it an indictment. It was a very talented edit. It's an interesting theory and all, but as you said, if it's not supposed to be the end, Apologine tends to make a little more sense--captures the struggle of it all in this case. I think as bizarre as those extra scenes are, they're intentional and crucial to where the BIG-O is heading...we'll just have to wait and see I guess. It was kind of the writers' way of saying, 'no way I'm letting this series end like this...see, there's more to this than you thought!' lol. 'The real fight's just begun!'

I couldn't get the link to the Divine-version of the climax. Could someone repost the link?

I have the season 2 CD and really like Divine. I haven't seen the Season 2 episodes for a while, but are we agreed that Divine never shows up in any of them?

Anywho, Divine seems to me to be a nice sunrise-type piece of music for a nice morning or resolution to a story - I pictured it being used with Roger and Dorothy on the balcony.