The Story of Schwarzwald [With Pictures!]

Schwarzwald is the most well written deus ex machina ever composed. Oh, my thoughts on the archetype is it was mass produced and sort of like soldiers, given the proper equipments. I.E., they had the armor and additional parts ready, since its cheaper to just mass produce them and assemble them(hints to maybe where Alex's machines[ones that can be seen rebuilding big duo and fau] came from) then make them all at the same time. much faster and safer. Considering the war times, if an enemy intercepted transports with FULL BIGS ready to go hell would break loose(anyone see Gundam SEED?).

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Originally posted by BigOZ Schwarzwald is the most well written deus ex machina ever composed.

How is Schwarzwald as deus ex machina?

"Most well written deus ex machina"? By most standards, a deus ex machina is bad, lazy writing.

I like deus ex machinae, personally. When they make sense, I mean. When something just randomly happens, it's stupid, but if something has been alluded to in the book previously and it's not an out of the blue magical event, it's fine with me. But I don't see Schwarzwald that way. He's an integral character.

The writers may have tried to cross sigmud Froyd and Darkman and the prophet daniel (swartzie baically quoted daniel saying alex is the dragon that will rise and he is the image(mirror) of the corrupt people of paradygm.)

One thing to remember schwartwald was never alive. Not once.he's ghost/lich/revenant.
Michael Seebach died (or was murdrered? hmmm?) trying to report the truth about the corruption in paradymn.(Angel: says he's hasn't been in the land of the living for a long time.a Zombie? a revenant? a ghost?)
he also wasn't burnt from the archetype either he was burn by a memory(memories are the only way to awaken a megaduece and he found the memory Rodger had the one with all the flames coming from the hole).

Schwartzwald is the ghost/zombie of Michael seebach.(Angel: apparently knew schwartzald's name without Rodger telling her. How did she know him ?) Schwartzwald never merged with Big Duo. He was just the Dominus of Big Duo.
He can pilot it and it responds to him.(like Rodger and Big O) thats why Big Duo Inferno stopped. Alan Gabriel was not the dominus of Big Duo and Mikey was.

The old man is Darkseed was Michael Seebach You can see his picture where Dan Dunstan holds up the picture of the mad scientist(double life?).Thats him.He even vanishes into thin air. Again there is infasis on seeing beyond the domes when the tree breaks part of dome.

Only a few people know that Paradigm is a TV show/VR broadway drama stage

Schwartzwald(After he sees the abandoned stage equipment), Gordon Rosewater(He the reason why paradigm lost there memory he said" If we are just actors on a stage we don't need memories of the past", so he said we don't need them.) ,Rodger Smith(even though he just plays his role to keep himself from becoming insane)and Angel:the director,Dan Dunstan.

Another misconception...there are 2(actualy 6,000 or so but...) rodgers 2 angels and 3 R.dorthys.


just sayin' hi everyone I am new here!
Rodger the Negotiator=Rodger the actor (you see him in the picture with gordon and at the last moment in the series with his hand on Angel's shoulder with R.dorthy behind him.

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Originally posted by Xylem The writers may have tried to cross sigmud Froyd and Darkman and the prophet daniel (swartzie baically quoted daniel saying alex is the dragon that will rise and he is the image(mirror) of the corrupt people of paradygm.)

What? Schwarzwald isn't talking about Alex; he's talking about how the delusion of the people of Paradigm will lead to their destruction. I don't understand the Frued or Darkman references, and where does he quote Daniel?

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One thing to remember schwartwald was never alive. Not once.he's ghost/lich/revenant.

Huh? Nothing in the series supports this.

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Michael Seebach died (or was murdrered? hmmm?) trying to report the truth about the corruption in paradymn.(Angel: says he's hasn't been in the land of the living for a long time.a Zombie? a revenant? a ghost?)

I think Angel meant that Schwarzwald hadn't been alive for a while, meaning a few months at the most.

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he also wasn't burnt from the archetype either he was burn by a memory(memories are the only way to awaken a megaduece and he found the memory Rodger had the one with all the flames coming from the hole).

Huh?

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Schwartzwald is the ghost/zombie of Michael seebach.(Angel: apparently knew schwartzald's name without Rodger telling her. How did she know him ?)

Schwarzwald's existence was known to Paradign HQ, and since Angel was working as Alex's secretary at the time, she probably would have found out from him.

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Schwartzwald never merged with Big Duo. He was just the Dominus of Big Duo. He can pilot it and it responds to him.(like Rodger and Big O) thats why Big Duo Inferno stopped. Alan Gabriel was not the dominus of Big Duo and Mikey was.

Yeah, that's pretty much the general consensus.

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The old man is Darkseed was Michael Seebach You can see his picture where Dan Dunstan holds up the picture of the mad scientist(double life?).Thats him.He even vanishes into thin air. Again there is infasis on seeing beyond the domes when the tree breaks part of dome. Only a few people know that Paradigm is a TV show/VR broadway drama stage Schwartzwald(After he sees the abandoned stage equipment), Gordon Rosewater(He the reason why paradigm lost there memory he said" If we are just actors on a stage we don't need memories of the past", so he said we don't need them.) ,Rodger Smith(even though he just plays his role to keep himself from becoming insane)and Angel:the director,Dan Dunstan. Another misconception...there are 2(actualy 6,000 or so but...) rodgers 2 angels and 3 R.dorthys. just sayin' hi everyone I am new here! Rodger the Negotiator=Rodger the actor (you see him in the picture with gordon and at the last moment in the series with his hand on Angel's shoulder with R.dorthy behind him.

Again, huh?

That aside, welcome to the forums!

I think the term deus ex machina fits, as it accompanies the overall environment and universe of Big O.

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Originally posted by relenz I think the term deus ex machina fits, as it accompanies the overall environment and universe of Big O.

That doesn't mean Schwarzwald is one.

Deus ex machina: An unexpected, artificial, or improbable character, device, or event introduced suddenly in a work of fiction or drama to resolve a situation or untangle a plot.

Schwarzwald does not fit that description.

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Originally posted by TanookiJoe quote: Originally posted by relenz I think the term deus ex machina fits, as it accompanies the overall environment and universe of Big O. That doesn't mean Schwarzwald is one. Deus ex machina: An unexpected, artificial, or improbable character, device, or event introduced suddenly in a work of fiction or drama to resolve a situation or untangle a plot. Schwarzwald does not fit that description.

Scharzwald, No.

Big Venus? Yes.

Schwarzwald represented someone who was so obsessed with the past that he was willing to destroy the present.

While roger didn't give a crap about the past and wanted only to look foward.

I have to agree with ToonakiJoe, seeing how memories come in the form of nightmares, not really fire or heat. Paradigm most probably isn't a TV show. Schwarzvald cant be a lich/mummy/zombie, since, IF Paradigm is a TV show, it has to be real, and we all know: (zombies dont really exist), not to mention the show is based alot on reality, not really fantasy.
You should read sixfortyfive's plot analysis, its really helpful (go to the paradigm city home page, click on links, than on the Big-O Plot Analysis.) otherwise. welcome to the forums.

Hi everyone:

Does anyone else find it odd that Alan Gabriel only appears after Schwarzwald is "dead"? And alan pilots Big Duo. Roger gets a letter that is only to be delivered after Seebach's death....why wasn't the letter delivered long before Big Duo "ate" Alan? What does Roger mean that Seabach was betrayed by Big Duo?

A couple of possibilities:
Schwarzwald's spirit is put to rest when Big Duo is completely destroyed.
Schwarzwald merged with Big Duo and in some some sense was Big Duo even with his human body dead (I don't think the body was ever shown).
Is Alan Gabriel an insanified Schwarzwald (more insane than usual)? Is he Schwarzwald's android counterpart?

Just asking,
Elessar

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Originally posted by Elessar169 Hi everyone: Does anyone else find it odd that Alan Gabriel only appears after Schwarzwald is "dead"? And alan pilots Big Duo. Roger gets a letter that is only to be delivered after Seebach's death....why wasn't the letter delivered long before Big Duo "ate" Alan? What does Roger mean that Seabach was betrayed by Big Duo? A couple of possibilities: Schwarzwald's spirit is put to rest when Big Duo is completely destroyed. Schwarzwald merged with Big Duo and in some some sense was Big Duo even with his human body dead (I don't think the body was ever shown). Is Alan Gabriel an insanified Schwarzwald (more insane than usual)? Is he Schwarzwald's android counterpart? Just asking, Elessar

There was a lame theory going around that Alan was the cyborg resurrection of schwarz

But I don't buy it. Alans personality is completely inconsistent with schwarzwald's.

I just think they needed another crazy villian. But as for why the letter showed up only after the big fight:

Probably becuase schwarzwalds ghost finally left paradigm.. or I don't know...

Yeah, those coincidences probably are just the same thing: they need another lunatic. not to mention: who let those flyers fall with the Leviathan VS Behemoth pic with god??? obviously someone, ppl say Schwarzvald. so yeah, he didn't really die when they said he did. and they never show the body.

thats why I said lich. The undead Liches can only die if you destroy thier soul orb or an object that holds thier memories.
Dorthy in leviathan called schwartzwald a ghost...
what does that mean?
Why did Paradigm Corp. want to pay Seebach?

Why was schwartzwald on daemonseed is santa claus its him trust me)

How does he know were all these megadeuces are?

How does angel know Schwartzwald when rodger first sees him and no one else knew him by that name other than rodger paradigm Corp knew him as michael seebach?

How does he know how to operate a Big ?

How does Michael seebach and rodger know german?

How come he seems to vanish into thin air sometimes?

He seems to have the same ideals as the union is he a tomatoe?

How does Alex know of the strong bond between the megaduece and dominuce and how does he know that Big Duo was haunted?

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Originally posted by Zopwx2 There was a lame theory going around that Alan was the cyborg resurrection of schwarz But I don't buy it. Alans personality is completely inconsistent with schwarzwald's. I just think they needed another crazy villian. But as for why the letter showed up only after the big fight: Probably becuase schwarzwalds ghost finally left paradigm.. or I don't know...

We actually have no frame of reference of when Schwarzwald died. We don't know how much time passes between episodes, so its pretty hard to tell. I always thought that Schwarzwald was alive from some time after the Big fight.

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Originally posted by Xylem thats why I said lich. The undead Liches can only die if you destroy thier soul orb or an object that holds thier memories. Dorthy in leviathan called schwartzwald a ghost... what does that mean?

She called Leviathan a ghost, not Schwarzwald.

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Why did Paradigm Corp. want to pay Seebach?

Probably to try to stop him from blowing them up.

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Why was schwartzwald on daemonseed is santa claus its him trust me)

I'm... gonna skip that.

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How does he know were all these megadeuces are?

Probably he goes looking for them. There's alot we don't know about Schwarzwald. Personally, I'd like to keep it that way -- his air of mystery makes him interesting.

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How does angel know Schwartzwald when rodger first sees him and no one else knew him by that name other than rodger paradigm Corp knew him as michael seebach?

I'm pretty sure that Alex was well aware of Schwarzwald, and since Angel was his secretary, she would have know too. It's pretty obvious that Alex knew what Schwarzwald was up to-- the attempted pay-off is a big hint.

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How does he know how to operate a Big ?

Good question. No one in Paradigm can give a reason why some people can pilot the Megadeuses without training, other than chalking it up to vague "memories". It's quite an interesting point.

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How does Michael seebach and rodger know german?

Well, Seebach is German, so of course he would know. This is pretty much just a mistake -- it was made in Act 4, when the writers still weren't sure where they were going with the series. Of course, this leads to the weird circumstances where Roger knows German but doesn't know French.

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How come he seems to vanish into thin air sometimes?

He didn't while he was alive. After he's dead, well, that's anyone's guess.

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He seems to have the same ideals as the union is he a tomatoe?

I personally don't think Seebach was a tomato. No evidence for it. He could be though. *coughSeason3cough*

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How does Alex know of the strong bond between the megaduece and dominuce and how does he know that Big Duo was haunted?

Dunno. He might of learned it from Gordon. But as for being haunted, I don't know if he knew that.

yeah, i dont think big duo was haunted, just the bond between Schwarzvald and Big Duo allowed Alan to be judged or whatnot. can we drop the thing about Schwarzvald being a lich/mummy? that is kinda ridiculous since the show is based on reality (aka no flying witches and sorcery).

that is an awesome story! great job! it explains a lot too. thanks!

Agreed, Schwarzwald is the coolest character on Big O. He's such a revolutionary.

your running on as much assuption as I am. So don't push your *ahem* ASSUMPTIONS! on me. thank you.

xylem, nobody is doubting you, they are just disagreeing. you should check out sixfortyfive's Big O plot analysis. http://www.sixfortyfive.com/bigo/wtf/
it's pretty thorough, albeit incomplete. you have some good ideas and theories, people are just trying to refine them by pointing out some flaws.

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Originally posted by Captain Maw xylem, nobody is doubting you, they are just disagreeing. you should check out sixfortyfive's Big O plot analysis. http://www.sixfortyfive.com/bigo/wtf/ it's pretty thorough, albeit incomplete. you have some good ideas and theories, people are just trying to refine them by pointing out some flaws.

Captain Maw is right. You'll find that the members of this forum are great a constructive criticism. More than once I've revised my personal theories when a flaw was pointed out to me on this board. Just try not to take it too personally and try to have fun.