Roger/Alex are the Yin/Yang of Paradigm...+ My promised BIG new theory (biblical resets, etc)!

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Originally posted by Paradigm Dog BIG-O is a name the creators came up with personally from an older Japanese show if I recall...but also interesting to point out, though stretching it now, is that there's BIG-O Notation in math, which does something like running through all scenarios to find the correct one.

*bing!* I actually studied Big-O notation (originally the Greek letter omega, now a capital O, but never a zero) in a computer programming class; it's used in testing the efficiency of algorithms. Perhaps coincidentally, it was invented by a German mathematician (its other name is Landau's Symbol, after the gentleman in question, Edmund Landau).

The really interesting thing about it is that it tests asymptotic behavior -- specifically it sets a kind of upper limit on a function in terms of a simpler function. To use what may be kind of an oversimplified example: Say you're walking toward a street sign that's one block away. You can walk no more than half the distance at a time. Theoretically, you'll never reach the sign, because no matter how close you get, you'll still be no more than halfway there -- but in terms of scale, the distance eventually becomes insignificant. (A line about sweet, flavorful tomatoes springs to mind.)

In computer science, asymptotic notation (including big-O notation) is used to scale a system upward to a functional level -- which, in terms of the experiment Paradigm City appears to be, takes on a fascinating and kinda creepy significance.

It also has a weird meta relevance, when you think about it. Season 1, as great as it was, essentially got us only halfway to Season 2 -- and both seasons put together have gotten us only halfway to the putative/theoretical Season 3. It's all about scale....

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Originally posted by Penny Century quote: Originally posted by Paradigm Dog BIG-O is a name the creators came up with personally from an older Japanese show if I recall...but also interesting to point out, though stretching it now, is that there's BIG-O Notation in math, which does something like running through all scenarios to find the correct one. *bing!* I actually studied Big-O notation (originally the Greek letter omega, now a capital O, but never a zero) in a computer programming class; it's used in testing the efficiency of algorithms. Perhaps coincidentally, it was invented by a German mathematician (its other name is Landau's Symbol, after the gentleman in question, Edmund Landau). The really interesting thing about it is that it tests asymptotic behavior -- specifically it sets a kind of upper limit on a function in terms of a simpler function. To use what may be kind of an oversimplified example: Say you're walking toward a street sign that's one block away. You can walk no more than half the distance at a time. Theoretically, you'll never reach the sign, because no matter how close you get, you'll still be no more than halfway there -- but in terms of scale, the distance eventually becomes insignificant. (A line about sweet, flavorful tomatoes springs to mind.) In computer science, asymptotic notation (including big-O notation) is used to scale a system upward to a functional level -- which, in terms of the experiment Paradigm City appears to be, takes on a fascinating and kinda creepy significance. It also has a weird meta relevance, when you think about it. Season 1, as great as it was, essentially got us only halfway to Season 2 -- and both seasons put together have gotten us only halfway to the putative/theoretical Season 3. It's all about scale....

Yeah, I thought that extrapolation was almost as cool as the fact that Big-O is slang for the wave crest in the human sexual experience.

Who knows... maybe there's some deep Jungian archetypal symbolic which crosses language and cultural barriers... blah blah blah yada yada yadda...

It's ironic though that the actual title of Big-O came about in a much more mundane fashion:

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Interview on "hero" page Katayama: Around the time, there was a suggestion that we needed more robots to increase the toy sales. That brought about the creation of Big Duo. "Is it true that Mr. Satoh came up with the name "Big O" when he was a child? Satou: That's right! Katayama: I thought it came from "Heibon Punch Oh!" (an old men's entertainment magazine)? Satou: No. It is actually from "Daitetsujin 17"(Great Iron Giant 17). GIANT IRONMAN 17, is the proper English rendering. This was a Toei television show from 1977, which was an Ishimori Shotaro version of Johnny Sokko -- shown in the US as a movie compilation called BRAIN 17. -- August Katayama: The one that goes "Oh! Oh! Oh!...." End theme song. Satou: Yes. Yes. Yes...LOL!

I love it when people read into things or discover things which either weren't intended or were at best superficial but are then built upon by "disciples".
If kept in their proper perspective they make for interesting "parlor talk".
Those things also serve to justify what I've been saying all along about religious legends and mythology.
It's not the authors who built the mystery and dogma into these things as much as it is the adherents who read more into the manuscripts than even the teachers of the faith had originally intended.

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Originally posted by Son_of_Horus I love it when people read into things or discover things which either weren't intended or were at best superficial but are then built upon by "disciples". If kept in their proper perspective they make for interesting "parlor talk". Those things also serve to justify what I've been saying all along about religious legends and mythology. It's not the authors who built the mystery and dogma into these things as much as it is the adherents who read more into the manuscripts than even the teachers of the faith had originally intended.

That's part of the fun, though, isn't it?

I think the biggest thing is to remember as far as religious symbols go, the Christian symbols are unlikely to have the same deep, cultural meaning that they do to people here.

It's probably more like you or I might use some references from Greek or Norse Mythology in a story--sure, we know the main points, but we don't have the whole array of unconscious symbolism to go with it.

That being said, even on a superficial level, the references are fascinating.

Some of my post was not evidently read. More came out of it than just religion.. No one has yet commented on this hypothesis:

---...Can anyone agree on this though?: That Paradigm City is a simulation for mankind. Paradigm City itself isn't a real city, it only serves as an expirament. It has no place in the world without its purpose. Before the Event it was just New York...it doesn't exist outside this Event/simulation. The peoples' lives are inconsequential unless they challenge the expirament...bring about its completion.

It will not end, unless either the people overcome their desturctive nature, or the Creator (mentioned by Gordon) who is ABOVE the Director (ie: like a Producer), decides that the expirament/event should cease to exist, causing Paradigm City to cease to exist.

That's why Angel as Director is told by Roger in the final scene of ACT 26, to stop denying her own existance and let the people keep their memories/they're vulnerable without them--something like this.

THE REASON (i feel currently) he says this, is because without mankind knowing their past mistakes/past destructive battles they can never have a true opportunity at correcting their future...they are in a cruel existance as Clockwork mentioned. The old saying, if you don't study the past, you are doomed to repeat history. So maybe now, as a concept to add to this basic idea, Fau is the Event of 40 years ago now for the people instead of whatever it really was, and that's why the city is in semi-ruins at the end of ACT 26, as it was in ACT 1. People remember that and have a chance to not want to repeat it. Therefore as Gordon talked about how Angel could change things a great deal, the real event of 40 years ago did not essentially happen, Alex's war of Paradigm City became the Event. Still, the simulation continues, and is without the original Event's memories, thus amnesia...and they still have to choose good over destruction.---

PS- I simply mentioned BIG-O Notation for kicks. If you see, I did say that: "BIG-O is a name the creators came up with personally from an older Japanese show if I recall". I remember that interview of them singing. lol. Additionally, I did mention other references besides "religion" such as Egyptian myth, Wizard of Oz, Lang's Metropolis, Vonnegut's God Bless you Mr. Rosewater, and I, Robot as outside influences--however so small or coincidental. Metropolis especially though undoubtably had an effect. These are all source material that effected BIG-O's creation. This topic is evolving

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Originally posted by stryker Well, I'm rousing from collapse, so I thot I'd actually add something a little more substantial to this thread. I just noticed that I hadn't even praised Paradigm Dog's thread! I love what he posted! It's very probing and makes one think. If anything, the creators of Big O seem to have used it as a vehicle to nudge the minds of the viewers, much like I intend to do with my own works, and much like Michael Seebach - not Schwarzwald, he's a crual maniac. To THINK! The creators must have been moody philosophical types like me, putting their cast into a situation which eventually grabbed them and forced them to confront all those issues which Paradigm Dog and Clockwork Tomato posted above. They're all ultimately religious questions. I think the Jewish-Christian themes must have facinated or charmed the creators, and perhaps Japanese culture, or it suited the themes of their world. Issues of good and evil, human nature and inhuman nature, life and death, and redemption both individual and national. Other religions don't really deal with those issues quite like Judeo-Christianity does, and might best suit what the creators wanted expressed. Religious themes are too deeply interwoven in the fabric of the world to be an inconsequential matter, and are too crucial to the issues both the citizens of Paradigm and our own world face. And frankly, I don't think anything but deep philosophy and religion can answer those questions. Materialism can't even tell us how the universe came to be. The birth of stars and how matter became self aware can't be explained using scientific principles and laws. Ultimately then, these questions in our world seek a transcendent answer. I think the creators wanted to create something much bigger than a simple anime, but a personal expression of their own religious and philosophical yearnings, and attempted to nudge our minds to this higher plane, getting us to ask like Roger and Michael Seebach, who are we, why are we here and what does this mean? I think I'm probably more fanatical than Paradigm Dog over this wild and mysterious series. When I finally borrowed the videos and saw them all, after reading some of the discussion posts here and at AS, I was utterly absorbed. I absolutely love this strange world these people find themselves in, with no explanation. Roger Smith, Dorothy, Angel and Dan Dastun don't just seem like characters in a fantasy show, they feel like friends that I get to meet in 24 minute adventures. Writing their stories seems to bring them to life in my heart in an even more personal way, as I get into their heads even more, sharing their joys, fears and yearnings, and their burning need for answers, and Memories. I have some answers, it'll be interesting what you guys think of them. I didn't intend to try to discern what they were hinting at. It came to me after a tornado and a four hour nap in fact. But when I awoke with that idea exploding in my head, I was compelled to write. But I do think it harmonizes very well with what the creators laid before us. I'm really looking forward to reading your stories too, and seeing what you saw that I missed. And I agree Darkangel, that was one heck of a thread starter!

thanks!

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Originally posted by Paradigm Dog PS- I simply mentioned BIG-O Notation for kicks. If you see, I did say that: "BIG-O is a name the creators came up with personally from an older Japanese show if I recall". I remember that interview of them singing. lol.

Well, sure, I've seen that interview, too. (Hey, there's also a principle that states the simplest answer that covers all available evidence is the correct one. ) The big-O notation thing is an interesting sidelight to the discussion, though. One doesn't have to believe the creators were invoking it deliberately to savor its resonances within its context. I'm just sayin'!

I think it's even more plausible that the cycle of events has nothing to do with the perfecting of mankind, but is driving people more and more crazy. And it's the people at the top, or who want to be at the top, who are the craziest of all. The ordinary folks are holding up relatively well. The worst we saw them do is put on white bedsheets and halos and throw a big party. It's the people who keep seeking out Truth who find madness instead.

But it could be that Paradigm is a cruel test put on by a cruel god. If so, I hope Roger kills the cruel god in Season 3.

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Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato But it could be that Paradigm is a cruel test put on by a cruel god. If so, I hope Roger kills the cruel god in Season 3.

and at the risk of severely dumbing down this topic, I suggest he do it in a tastefully done, yet still kickass megadeus battle. With explosions, lots of explosions.