Ending of season 2

Do you think the end of season 2 was a reset or something else? Like living their real lives.

I don't, and for some obvious reasons. One compelling reason is because of Angel and Dorothy standing beside each other. In the prior reset, they didn't know of each other, let alone watch Roger (a person they obviously didn't know prior to Act 1) drive by. Why would two strangers spend an awfully large amount of attention to a stranger driving by in a black car? Also, why is Dorothy wearing the "proper attire" for the Smith Mansion when she no longer remembers it? I distinctly remember her wearing a green dress during Act 1. If it was a reset, she should be wearing that same green (or red) dress. A person, who found the color black as tasteless, will not wear it if it isn't required or requested of them.

Green Dress...


but still....I prefer calling it a rewind. It rewound to a specific time but not completely, the characters are still as they were, in my mind, as if the show had just begun season3. It is back to the way things were COMPLETELY...it's like they went into a time machine but came out with no memories (that being assumed), the same clothes, but they only went back 2 hours...

I don't think Paradigm City was reset either.

It seems to me that Angel Rosewater, the director of Paradigm City, left the control room. But upon leaving she became susceptible to the amnesia that effects Paradigm City. With Angel gone, the city goes haywire. By the time she returns to the control room Paradigm City, in Angel's eyes, cannot be restored and must be reset, so she calls upon Big Venus.

Roger knows that Angel is controlling Big Venus and gives her a speech about the importance of individuality and humanity. The speech works, and Big Venus stops while Paradigm City is restored.

Roger and Dorothy return to the Paradigm Corporation and they discover the control room with Angel crying inside it. Roger places a reasuring hand on her shoulder while Dorothy compliments (as best an android can) Roger on his negotiating skills.

Roger receives a call from Norman regarding another client. He leaves Dorothy and Angel behind while he drives away, no longer doubting himself and his purpose.

quote:

Originally posted by Tony I don't, and for some obvious reasons. One compelling reason is because of Angel and Dorothy standing beside each other. In the prior reset, they didn't know of each other, let alone watch Roger (a person they obviously didn't know prior to Act 1) drive by. Why would two strangers spend an awfully large amount of attention to a stranger driving by in a black car? Also, why is Dorothy wearing the "proper attire" for the Smith Mansion when she no longer remembers it? I distinctly remember her wearing a green dress during Act 1. If it was a reset, she should be wearing that same green (or red) dress. A person, who found the color black as tasteless, will not wear it if it isn't required or requested of them.

Your first clue about them not knowing eachother might not be true, what if they new each other before the memmory wipe? Or what if that was the human Dorothy.

Your second about the car; In all of our time in Paradigm City do we ever see a car as luxurious as the Griffion? The defense on the car alone must mean that it attracts quite a few eyes.

Number three about Dorothy's attire, we don't know much about the Roger from before the wipe, (if the reset went back that far) and so we don't know if Dorothy (if she existed), or even Angel (Again if she existed), had a previous relationship with Roger Smith.

Your third fact is a good one, (all your facts are very good ) I don't know why she would ware black, maybe she was morning? Make if that Dorothy is the human one, she wasn't the same as our R Dorothy.

quote:

Your first clue about them not knowing eachother might not be true, what if they new each other before the memmory wipe? Or what if that was the human Dorothy.

Human Dorothy is easily identified by her pretty violet eyes ^_^

I've never been convinced that Angel and Dorothy were watching Roger drive by. We don't see the car pass in front of them, they don't move their heads as if they were watching the car go by, there's not even a shadow of the car as it supposedly passes. Dorothy and Angel are not shown in the background in time during Roger's closeup.

I think they were just standing outside somewhere. We're shown a shot of Roger, he looks down at his watch, the scene cuts to a different location where Angel and Dorothy are standing (perhaps waiting for something or someone) and then the camera cuts back to Roger driving off into the grey morning.

As for weather or not there was a reset; who can say for sure. But either way I have complete confidence in Konaka that he will make it work.

(yeah, I know, a pansy-ass reponse if there ever were one)


muchlove
-dork

I DO

Because BIG VENUS Erased FAU

And that ALONE Was a reset.

Erased or replaced/moved? Or prehaps it isn't a reset, but the continuation of a loop. The Big O loop theory is kind of like a tire rolling down a hill, time passes by, and progress is made, yet the same surface of the well is always used, and is worn. Only when the wheel hits the bottom will we see the end of the loop.

New Loop= Rotation

Progress made (Closer to negotiations) = Closer to the bottom of the hill

Since the tread doesn't ware off all at once, consistances can be seen between new loops even though the top layer might have been worn.

The Bigs, and the main characters are like the inside, or the metal part of the tire that hold it up, they can't be destroyed by normal ware.

Angel is the director in which she directs which path the tire goes, making sure no bumps are hit that would damage the core, or turn the tire over.

This is my best explination which I'm going to dub the "LOOPING TIRE THEORY"

If we listen to Gordon in Act 26 and believe what he says (and I sometime suspect that I'm the only one who does both), then the whole theory about endless loops is bogus. Angel can have endless loops if she wants, but it all comes down to her choice. Angel can give people a new dose of amnesia or let the old memories free, but it all comes down to her choice.

I think that Angel wound stuff back to just before the destruction in that last day; before the "bombs" started falling. She presumably left Alan, Alex, Big Fau, and Big Duo out of the picture. But it wouldn't shock me if she ran things back to the moment before Big Venus appeared, changing things only so Alex did not survive.

As for there being a new wave of amnesia, I don't believe it for a second. What Roger is referring to is the amnesia of 40 years ago. Angel told us that she didn't care about those memories. When she put the world back the way it was, she put it back the way it was. She didn't undo the old amnesia.

That's how I see it. It's the only explanation I've heard that's consistent with what Gordon told Angel and what Roger told Angel.

It depends on what you mean by "reset". If you mean "total reset to Act 1", then no, not in the least. The epilogue is enough to show that.

If you mean "playing with reality so that the city was fixed of its stagelight-and-Megadeus induce damage.", then yes.

quote:

Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato If we listen to Gordon in Act 26 and believe what he says (and I sometime suspect that I'm the only one who does both), then the whole theory about endless loops is bogus. Angel can have endless loops if she wants, but it all comes down to her choice. Angel can give people a new dose of amnesia or let the old memories free, but it all comes down to her choice. I think that Angel wound stuff back to just before the destruction in that last day; before the "bombs" started falling. She presumably left Alan, Alex, Big Fau, and Big Duo out of the picture. But it wouldn't shock me if she ran things back to the moment before Big Venus appeared, changing things only so Alex did not survive. As for there being a new wave of amnesia, I don't believe it for a second. What Roger is referring to is the amnesia of 40 years ago. Angel told us that she didn't care about those memories. When she put the world back the way it was, she put it back the way it was. She didn't undo the old amnesia. That's how I see it. It's the only explanation I've heard that's consistent with what Gordon told Angel and what Roger told Angel.

Slightly off-topic, but I believe the reason why there were no memories from before 40 years ago is because Angel didn't care about them (at least, this is the impression I received from what Gordon said, so you're not the only one who listens to him, Tomato).

It might seem odd, because in the beginning of the series Angel was obsessed with the memories. However, we learn by season 2 this is really because the Union ordered her to, so we can't even be sure if she herself was genuinely interested in them (even if she were, it'd only be for"the money" rather than what they held within).

Nothing existed 40 years ago, because Angel didn't decide that anything existed. She has complete control over Paradigm, she decides where it goes, and one presumes she has chosen a world with memories over one without.

I really dont think it was a reset.... There was too much evidence against that conclusion.

It wasn't a reset.

My mind is thinking this at the moment... I need to think about it some more.

Angel, the director, turned back time (not all the way) and rewrote a little bit of Paradigm. Dorothy is obviously living at Roger's Mansion.. black outfit. Why she is standing with Angel? Not sure. I almost wonder if we are supposed to think that they get along now and that there is no bad feelings between them.

But I'm not really sure. We only got a little peak into how Paradigm City was after Big Venus and Big O merged.

BabyGhia

[edit: I think that there is more to Gordon than we know. I wonder if he's just acting senile or if he just get these times where things are very clear and sometimes they are clouded. Not sure.]

could the dorothy at the end be R.D. ?

I agree that the end of season two takes place progressing from the finale, but it was designed so that in case of a season III black out (like there is now) you can watch the first two seasons over and over and it comes across as a fluid storylike with endless repeats. Those repeats thus being suit to our desires.

Who was Roger negotiating with?

Angel, big venus, Casey Jenkens? No!!! Roger Smith, the negotiator, was trying to negotiate with Cartoon Network to release the paradigm of what cartoons are to the "mainstream of America."

No I don't think its a total reset.... because....

spoiler (highlight to read):

It ends like the opening of the begunning right? But this time Dorothy and Angel are both there when they weren't before?! So it can't be a total reset right?

quote:

Originally posted by BethMcBeth No I don't think its a total reset.... because.... spoiler (highlight to read): It ends like the opening of the begunning right? But this time Dorothy and Angel are both there when they weren't before?! So it can't be a total reset right?

spoiler (highlight to read):

More importantly, Roger silently drives over the street panel and he doesn't check his watch. Many here theorize this proves there wasn't a total reset.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Peabody quote: Originally posted by BethMcBeth No I don't think its a total reset.... because.... spoiler (highlight to read): It ends like the opening of the begunning right? But this time Dorothy and Angel are both there when they weren't before?! So it can't be a total reset right? spoiler (highlight to read): More importantly, Roger silently drives over the street panel and he doesn't check his watch. Many here theorize this proves there wasn't a total reset.

Well, to clarify, Dorothy and Angel are standing on the side of the road together. Dorothy is in her black "outfit" instead of the green dress, which means that she's living with Roger still. Roger not checking his watch is because he's not on his way to negotiate with Beck for Dorothy's release. A lot of clues there in those last 30 seconds.

BTW, we probably don't need to use spoiler tags in this thread. Most who haven't seen the ending will probably stay away from it just because of the name. Unless I'm wrong??

BabyGhia

It was not a reset, but it seems angel has the power to mold the world into any shape she wants.

Either that or they keep replaying and modifying events untill they reach their goal!

OMG! its just like dark city how every night they do it over and over and change things untill they get it right!

OMG! x2 they keep cloning fake tomatos on gordon's farm until they become real.

Therefore they keep modyfying and restarting paradigm untill one day it becomes a real city.

Most likely the world is based off of fragmented information data or memories but is incomplete, but they hope if they keep fiddiling with it one day it will work.

At first, I thought "Yeah, it was a reset." Now I like Evan's use of the term "rewind".
If somewone was going to reset memories and Paradigm city as a whole, why wouldn't you go the whole way and get rid of falling down buildings and the like? But If Angel doesn't care about the memories of more than 40 years ago, she probably wouldn't care about the buildings either.
Tony's point that Dorothy is wearing that black dress is also a good arguement.

quote:

Originally posted by BabyGhia [edit: I think that there is more to Gordon than we know. I wonder if he's just acting senile or if he just get these times where things are very clear and sometimes they are clouded. Not sure.]

Well, with Alzheimer's, things like this happen. Short term memory is impared first. You can tell a person with this disease something 3 times in 1/2 hour and they will ask you again like they are hearing it for the first time. Long term memories, thing's they did 40 years ago, are as clear as they happened yesterday. Eventually, everything does get cloudy. Then, every once in a while, they are completey lucid in the here and now. It' scary.
Sorry for drifting slighty off subject there.

Madrona

No, I don't think that we were viewing a reset to the first episode, I think we were seeing a Paridigm Shift.

We were taken back to the start of the series, but there WERE some major changes between the last run of the story, and what would come next. A variation on a theme, so to say...