[Suggestion] Patron

Seraphim 07-14-2004 09:49 AM
For one, it's not like it's a lot of cash. Anywhere from 5 to 15 dollars.

Also, by that logic, you might say:

Party A has the time to spend on these forums and reaches Forum Vet status.

Party B wants to have the time but doesn't, so they don't get it.

The perks aren't amazing to the point where people will be dying to get them, it's just a little something to encourage a donation.
StevieV019 07-14-2004 09:58 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Seraphim
For one, it's not like it's a lot of cash. Anywhere from 5 to 15 dollars.

Also, by that logic, you might say:

Party A has the time to spend on these forums and reaches Forum Vet status.

Party B wants to have the time but doesn't, so they don't get it.

The perks aren't amazing to the point where people will be dying to get them, it's just a little something to encourage a donation.


You've now just put another criteria into the mix...

Now you're saying only "forum Vets" get to be part of the group, and that not only does a financial donation require admission to this elite club, but also status within the forum community, albeit through Forum Veteran group membership. Either way you look at it, it can and my cause a segmented forum.

How about we do something to promote the newer members, or those with less posts, to post more? Whereas, this may strengthen our overall community, the previous idea strictly creates a reward for those who spend lots of time here and who post here or have posted continuously in the past. Where does that promote unity and communal support for the forum throughout the membership as a whole??
Seraphim 07-14-2004 01:30 PM
quote:
Originally posted by StevieV019
You've now just put another criteria into the mix...

Now you're saying only "forum Vets" get to be part of the group, and that not only does a financial donation require admission to this elite club, but also status within the forum community, albeit through Forum Veteran group membership. Either way you look at it, it can and my cause a segmented forum.


Actually, that's not what I was saying. Anyone can join this group.

It's not an "elite club" and there's nothing to suggest that. What makes this group "elite"? What makes it a "club"? Anyone with 5 bucks on PayPal to blow isn't the richest of the rich, and there's certainly no special secret forum for those who donate.
evanASF27 07-14-2004 01:35 PM
It may not be an "elite club" but people who happen to join it may think of themselves as that. Not saying I support this, but it could very well happen and it would cause confusion and much more stress.

Though donating money IS a good idea (which I plan to do myself), I do not want any reward for it. THe forums staying up is reward enough (like FP said).


I think this is becoming like one of the arguments in the MFL. Seraphim has his side and the rest of us posting here are either against it or saying we wouldn't mind it but don't think it a necessary change.

I think we should end this discussion.
X Prime 07-14-2004 01:49 PM
www.diabloii.net has a system like this, and it seems to have produced really arrogant people...
evanASF27 07-14-2004 01:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by X Prime
www.diabloii.net has a system like this, and it seems to have produced really arrogant people...

exactly...and we could use less of them here (not saying exactly that anyone here is arrogant) Roll Eyes
Seraphim 07-14-2004 01:51 PM
quote:
Originally posted by evanASF27
I think this is becoming like one of the arguments in the MFL. Seraphim has his side and the rest of us posting here are either against it or saying we wouldn't mind it but don't think it a necessary change.


They're only arguments because you make them into arguments, Evan. How about posting something constructive to the conversation instead of "Seraphim's idea sucks, let's stop talking about it."

If you have a problem with this suggestion, do you have any ideas on how to correct these percieved problems? Maybe we can work out a system instead of just ending the discussion at the first problem encountered.
X Prime 07-14-2004 01:58 PM
Erm... How about asking the donaters who have donated if they want special treatment? That IS what the idea apparently amounts to.
Seraphim 07-14-2004 02:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by X Prime
Erm... How about asking the donaters who have donated if they want special treatment? That IS what the idea apparently amounts to.


Well, of course, it's fully optional, just like the Forum Vets category.
StevieV019 07-14-2004 02:06 PM
My question with regard to this issue is this: What is the overall benefit and point to doing this? If its to promote donations to the site, I can barely see it as accomplishing this. Furthermore, Krang and Shredder should be the ones "soliciting" this if its necessary in the first place. Does having this really accomplish anything worthwhile that will make the site/forums a better place? I think thats the question that should be asked when considering new ideas. It doesnt have to turn into an argument, nor do I see it as one. When new ideas and such are brought forth whether its worth it to make the change as well as if there is a true benefit provided from the change should be considered...

quote:
How about we do something to promote the newer members, or those with less posts, to post more? Whereas, this may strengthen our overall community, the previous idea strictly creates a reward for those who spend lots of time here and who post here or have posted continuously in the past. Where does that promote unity and communal support for the forum throughout the membership as a whole??


Why must we reward those with the most posts?

quote:
Party A has the time to spend on these forums and reaches Forum Vet status


It appears that based upon your response to my example, that those with the most posts must be rewarded...

Mainly, my thing about new ideas and so forth focuses on this:

What is the overall benefit and point to doing this? and if is it really important that a change is made??
Seraphim 07-14-2004 02:10 PM
I'm not entirely sure how the "most posts" thing relates to this, but the benefit is just to Krang and Shredder. They can take the idea if they want. I just proposed it. :shrug:
The Fallen Phoenix 07-14-2004 04:32 PM
quote:
Originally posted by StevieV019
My question with regard to this issue is this: What is the overall benefit and point to doing this? If its to promote donations to the site, I can barely see it as accomplishing this. Furthermore, Krang and Shredder should be the ones "soliciting" this if its necessary in the first place. Does having this really accomplish anything worthwhile that will make the site/forums a better place? I think thats the question that should be asked when considering new ideas. It doesnt have to turn into an argument, nor do I see it as one. When new ideas and such are brought forth whether its worth it to make the change as well as if there is a true benefit provided from the change should be considered...

(Emphasis mine)

Which was the point I was trying to articulate in my previous post: there is no reason to do this. The forum does not need donations; that's the only time I think this idea would even be applicable.

How can this idea be better, Seraphim? I believe that was your response to evan. Perhaps you did not realize it, but I believe evan was trying to articulate that, since this idea is unneccessary, there is no point in even attempting to perfect it; as perfected and improved as it might become, its neccessity will not change (which, as aforementioned, is zero).

There are no true benefits...will the forums get more donations? Possibly. These benefits, however, are superfluous. Furthermore, even if more donations are received (however superfluous they may be), there exists the possibility that the nature of the donation is corrupted; rather than donating in order to keep Paradigm online, there might be those who donate in order to satisfy their starved ego by qualifying for an elite group of members.
Seraphim 07-14-2004 04:46 PM
quote:
Originally posted by The Fallen Phoenix
The forum does not need donations; that's the only time I think this idea would even be applicable.

I believe that was your response to evan. Perhaps you did not realize it, but I believe evan was trying to articulate that, since this idea is unneccessary, there is no point in even attempting to perfect it; as perfected and improved as it might become, its neccessity will not change (which, as aforementioned, is zero).

There are no true benefits...will the forums get more donations? Possibly. These benefits, however, are superfluous. Furthermore, even if more donations are received (however superfluous they may be), there exists the possibility that the nature of the donation is corrupted; rather than donating in order to keep Paradigm online, there might be those who donate in order to satisfy their starved ego by qualifying for an elite group of members.


1) The forum might not NEED donations, but it would be nice to have, possibly. I'm unsure of the financial situation.

2) How can you surmise that from Evan's post? He said quite clearly his objections. And besides, it doesn't matter if it's useless or not, that's for Krang/Shredder to decide.

3) I'm still not sure how they would be "elite". It's not like they get instant moderator status or anything.
The Fallen Phoenix 07-14-2004 05:07 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Krang
I'll think about it. We're not really in need of money right now because we have had some very generous donations in the past that are still paying for our hosting (thanks to these people Smile )


There's the financial status of the forums, which Krang made quite clear in his initial post...Sweatdrop

Hardly seems like the forums are struggling to get necessary donations now. This might be a viable option in case the forums ever do require a large influx of donations at a particular time, but this is not that time. Hence, the proposal is superfluous and unnecessary.

This isn't to say that Krang and Shredder do not want anymore donations; what I'm trying to say is that there is no reason to give incentives for donations since the donations are not necessary and because you should already have an incentive...

After all, a donation is a free contribution. You should not expect to get anything back from it. In the current case, you do get rewarded (that is, the continued operation of this site and forums), but I do not think that really qualifies as "profit;" this proposal certainly does.

quote:
Originally posted by evanASF27
Seraphim has his side and the rest of us posting here are either against it or saying we wouldn't mind it but don't think it a necessary change.


I think you might have missed that sentence, Seraphim. I think it's quite clear evan is insisting that this proposal is unnecessary; therefore, why bother improving it? Improving the proposal will hardly improve its necessity; its necessity is dictated by circumstances (that is, how much money the forums currently require) that are beyond our control.

When I say these circumstances are beyond our control, I mean it in the sense that these circumstances will not change regardless of whether the proposal is introduced or not.

---
By the way, expressing your opposition to a proposal, last time I checked, does add meaningful insight into a discussion...after all, not everyone can be expected to agree with this proposal. I think it'd be shallow to insist only one viewpoint (that supporting this proposal) ought be allowed in the thread. Your post against evan really supported that ideology...
Seraphim 07-14-2004 06:48 PM
quote:
Originally posted by The Fallen Phoenix
By the way, expressing your opposition to a proposal, last time I checked, does add meaningful insight into a discussion...after all, not everyone can be expected to agree with this proposal. I think it'd be shallow to insist only one viewpoint (that supporting this proposal) ought be allowed in the thread. Your post against evan really supported that ideology...


Laughing It's not just his opinion, but the suggestion that we all just drop the idea. If he just posted something like "I think this won't work" that's fine, but asking everyone to quit discussing it is deconstructive to the thread.
The Fallen Phoenix 07-14-2004 07:29 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Seraphim
Laughing It's not just his opinion, but the suggestion that we all just drop the idea. If he just posted something like "I think this won't work" that's fine, but asking everyone to quit discussing it is deconstructive to the thread.


No, it isn't; I'm saying we drop it too, but anyone with an impartial view would recognize I'm hardly derailing the thread.

...why in God's name I'm even arguing about this eludes me.
Kittie heavenly6 07-14-2004 07:42 PM
Yeah, this has to be one of the silliest arguments I've read on a message board in... the last 10 minutes. (Message boards are full of silly arguments)
Seraphim 07-14-2004 07:46 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Grunger Kittie Version 1
Yeah, this has to be one of the silliest arguments I've read on a message board in... the last 10 minutes. (Message boards are full of silly arguments)


I don't see why there's an argument, anyway. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect everyone who posts in a thread to contribute to it in some way. They can express their opinions, certainly, but it's annoying if you have people saying "This idea sucks, nobody talk about it anymore." If you don't want to talk about it, don't come to the thread.
evanASF27 07-14-2004 07:50 PM
*notes how alot of people leave*


...bye seraphim!... Smile )
The Fallen Phoenix 07-14-2004 08:01 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Seraphim
I don't see why there's an argument, anyway. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect everyone who posts in a thread to contribute to it in some way. They can express their opinions, certainly, but it's annoying if you have people saying "This idea sucks, nobody talk about it anymore." If you don't want to talk about it, don't come to the thread.


...okay, I can't resist but respond to this. If a thread is centered around a particular subject, such as a television show or book, you might be right. But in a thread which is for suggesting the direction the entire community takes, such as this one, comments like that are perfectly acceptable.

If that's what that particular person feels about a suggestion, I don't see what's wrong with it. After all, I don't recall evan making a big deal of it...he said what he wanted to say and left... Roll Eyes