What the Hell are you HUMANS thinking? Birds and other winged creatures only!

No, your being killed as well, War is fought by those who have prepared themselves for death. On D-Day, thousands of men lay dead on the beaches; Pearl Harbor, thousands sunk to thier watery graves...

War is not for the phaint hearted...

Understanding why war must take place and why the soldiers choose to fight, are an important part of life... make sure if theres one thing you learn in life, that this is at the top of the list...

quote:

Originally posted by The Fallen Phoenix Noo...the thread is collapsing...damn you! I must post another question to bring this thread back on track...let's see... Since we're on the topic of global annihilation, let's try this one: Is the Human race currently on a downward path towards annihilation, or an ascending path towards retribution? This has been touched upon before, but I'll expand it a little bit more... If the Human race is currently on a path towards annihilation, what can be done to prevent it? And one final question to get your minds pondering...this one is fairly simple and straightforward (like the other ones preceeding this)... In what scenarios can a war be justified, if a war can be justified at all?

Yes please... this is my place were we cant get criticized for being crazy lunitics with too much time on our hands. Lets stay atleast on topic.

"If the human race in currently on a path towards annihilation, what can be done to pervent it."
Ok first we need to take bush out of office. Bush is leading us all downhill.... we need a president that is not as friken wrekless. Mabey Nader... I'm not sure about gore... be he is better than bush.

"In what scenarios can be justified, if a war can be justified at all"

quote:

To defend those who cannot defend themselves from an opponent that does not value life.

Lady tesser already answered that clearly.(not saying the one i answered was clear... but bush hasnt done much that doesn't end up blowing back on us.)

ok howabout this? mabey this can get some newcomers to reveial what they think live is and how it will end?
This is part 1 of "the void"
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view.php?id=70377
The is part 2 of "the void"
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view.php?id=83250

watch them in order... and its syboloic...even if you dont care about the thread... its a really good flash movie...

Okay, time to get off the topics of war and human annihilation (at least for a little while )

I agree with what has been said about what justifies a war, and don't have much to add.

Now we're going to come to the land of hypotheticals.

The first stop along this road trip: In what order would you place the following?

-->Loyalty to one's country/people (race, government, etc.).
-->Loyalty to one's religion.
-->Loyalty to one's family (mother, father, siblings, cousins, etc.)
-->Loyalty to one's lover (wife, husband, boyfriend, girlfriend, etc.)
-->Loyalty to one's mentor (teacher, mentor, who you look up to, etc.)
-->Loyalty to one's self (your ideals, ambitions, wishes, hopes, personal health, etc.)
-->Loyalty to society. (The mainstream, society, normality, etc.)
-->Loyalty to one's friends.


Basically, if you had to choose between the topcis above, which ones would be most important to you, and why?

And after you answer that question, I have a hypothetical...

You are on a train. The train is travelling very fast, so fast that it cannot be stopped. However, on the track you are currently on you realize there are 15 track workers. If you do not do anything, the track workers will surely be killed. You do have a chance to save their lives...just a few moments before the collision you will have a chance to switch to another track. However, you know that on the other track there is 1 person, and that if you switch tracks he will not survive.

What do you do? Stay on the track you are on, letting the 15 track workers die and sparing the 1, or switch tracks, sparing the 15 track workers and killing the 1?

Explain your reasons as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Manji megadeese.

So thats the plural....

Wow, Fallen Phoenix, you throw out some of the most perplexing situations, and that's a good thing. We need more ingenious thinkers like you.

So anyways, in dealing with your first question stated in your last post, here's my order, with the first one being the most important:

-->Loyalty to one's self (your ideals, ambitions, wishes, hopes, personal health, etc.)
-->Loyalty to one's family (mother, father, siblings, cousins, etc.)
-->Loyalty to one's lover (wife, husband, boyfriend, girlfriend, etc.)
-->Loyalty to one's mentor (teacher, mentor, who you look up to, etc.)
-->Loyalty to one's country/people (race, government, etc.)
-->Loyalty to one's religion
-->Loyalty to one's friends
-->Loyalty to society. (The mainstream, society, normality, etc.).

Yeah, that's my list.
I chose "Loyalty to one's self" as the most important thing because I feel that if person does not care for him/her self, there isn't much reason to be alive for your own sake, not for other's. A person has to realize that if they can't accept or care for themselves, no one else will towards them either, and so their lives will, furthermore, be meaningless. Or something to that extent.

I chose "Loyalty to society" as the least important because society does not have to affiliate with you unless you want it to. It's not necessary in order to live life and make your own decisions, so yeah. It's just there to make people feel more accepted, but if you have the above loyalties down prior to society's, then you're pretty much good already.

In dealing with your "train" question, I must honestly say that I would not change the train's route, and so would therefore allow 15 people to be killed. This is because of the fact that this is how things were already set out. This was how things were meant to be, and so I wouldn't do anything to change that fact. The people should have never been on the track in the midst of an approaching train in the first place. Also, if I were to switch tracks and just let one die, then one family would have to mourn for that one death and feel like it only happens to them and their family. However, if 15 were to die, that would be maybe 15+ families mourning together, and so things would be a bit smoother in terms of moving on. Oh yeah, and I wouldn't switch the tracks because I don't know how to. Simple.

So there you have it. This has to be one of the greatest, most intellectual threads I've seen in our "Chit-Chat" so far. It's a shame that I came in so late, though. Oh well, I'll manage.

Heh, it's nothing...the train one is actually something that someone else threw out at me a while ago when we were talking Philoshopy one day, so I can't take credit for it.

I also agree that if you can't accept yourself, you can't accept others...I was hoping people wouldn't interpret loyalty to one's self to be greed and selfishness persay. (Although if they want to, they can).

After I get some more responses I'll post up my opinions/beliefs on these two questions...I especially want to see the responses to the train question. It's actually much deeper than it seems. (As your response pointed out with all of the different reasons why you came to your response, obviously. )

Here is how I view it.

-Loyalty to one's self
-Loyalty to one's lover
-Loyalty to one's family
-Loyalty to one's friends
-Loyalty to one's country
-Loyalty to one's religion
-Loyalty to one's society

If you are not loyal to yourself then you are loyal to no one. Do not surpress the voices in your head, listen to them, anaylze their ideas, and choose them if you think that course of action is the proper one. Not being loyal to yourself means that you deny yourself, your very existence, and that is pointless. If I choose to not be loyal to myself, then I will not be who I am, I will be a mindless automaton controlled by others.

I do believe that one's lover and family fall under the same category, your lover is family afterall, even if you aren't married just yet. Being loyal to those close to you is vitally important, too many people are willing to betray those close to them for just a few moments of pleasure.

Loyalty to society...that however...is pointless. Society today is not something with which I wish to be associated. And you must place importance into anything that you are loyal to. Society in general is repulsive. I do not place value in society because I am not a part of it, I was forced out long ago.

As for the train question...well, it would depend on who that one other person is. For example, if it's Gerorge W. Bush then I'll change in an instant. But if it's a good person, then that would be much harder. I know that there are many people who don't want to die, and I don't want to be responsible for killing anyone. The feeling of killing someone is very awful, it's terrifying. I know this because I thought that I had killed one of my friends once, I felt like a heel for weeks... I know there are people who would gladly give up their life if it meant that others could live...but that still doesn't justify killing any of them. I suppose, that I would just have to say a prayer for that one person and change the tracks...

You know...about the train question...bah, this might spoil it (PLEASE don't read the spoiler until after you post a response to the train question...and just for fun I'll even encode it ) After enough responses to the train queston I'll post what's in the spoiler box (decoded) in my response to the question.

spoiler (highlight to read):

Uifsf jt b xbz up hfu bxbz xjui opu cfkoh sftqpotjcmf gps ljmmjoh tpnfpof po uif usbjo rvftujpo

You know...it's hard for me to even think of killing bugs...believe it or not. If I kill or injure any kind of life (excluding mosquitoes), I go on a guilt trip (usually for about a minute)...

Damn conscience...

Yet I can think of toturing people without a second thought. Yep, that's my crazy sadistic mind working there...

Ah damn, how am I supposed to be able to decode what you put in the spoiler? Heh, I'll just have to be patient for it, I guess.

Oh, I think you are able to fantasize (heh, I know you didn't use this term, but it makes it scarier, or something) about torturing humans due to the fact that they have had direct affects on you, whereas a bug has none. They go about their own business, but humans talk to you about their problems and all that, with their bitchin' and moanin'. They talk about what they want, what they think you ought to do and feel, and just argue in general. It's just at a nonstop pace, and so you grow tired of it, and therefor, want to shut it up for good. Uh, I hope that wasn't too much there. So, yeah, that's why I think you feel that way. I mean, hey, I feel the same way, except that I'm not a sadistic fantasizer like you. Heh, I'm just playing. Good times.

-self(agree with what omega said... after all...wouldn't be talking about this if I had listened to others nosey remarks)
-lover(if possible and found...not quite likly with my status)
-family (family would try to get you to mabey choose a "lover" they think is best)
-friends( ehh... quite depends on which friends

and way bellow at the bottom are these...

-religoin(im athiest)
-country... dislike goverment.....
-society.. they are all out to get me... dont know what id promise them either...not like Ill become a president of a company or anything...

meh you guys scare me >_< This is going against a religion I know it is
can you pick a happier question to ask next time??? =P

Have you guys forgotten about this thread? I haven't! Since Fallen Phoenix doesn't seem to be online I'll start a new question!

If you could do anything, anything at all to the entire world (be serious please!) what would it be? And why would you do it?

Personally, I'm sure that all of you have heard of Meggido, the madman who controls Big Omega. He's sort of the person who I act out what I want to do through. I want to purify the world, not to Meggido's extent though. I want to get rid of all of the evil human beings, make sure that only the decent human beings were left around. As for why, well...it would make sure that all of those stupid insane humans, the ones who refuse to listen to reason, the ones who would bring about the end of the world would be gone, leaving only those people who exemplify what people should be...or at least get rid of those that we shouldn't be.

I AM INSPECTOR ZENIGATA OF THE ICPO!
Muahahahaahaaa....then I could chase you guys all I want And including one Lupin!

(evil laugh)
Besides that I would like to actually (like know how to) operate my Megadeus Big Zenigata

Still no more resposnes to the Train question?

Grr...I'll give it one more day...if still no more responses I'll post my response and go on to the next question.

If I could do anything in the world? Dunno...I'll get back to you because it will take me some time to think...

If I could do anything?

I guess I would ask for a genie, then I would get 3 wishes

I would proboubly try and reincarnate the old days and become a mafia leader...

Or become a hitman, some cool and impractical job like that...

About the train question. I know trains. I am an EXPERT at them. I know them...they know me. Hell I built one from scratch with my bare hands
The answer would be either:
1) (since the train is going so fast it cannot be stopped then if it did switch to the other line it would derail at the points and thus not hit anybody) So I would switch to the other line and get no one hurt but me.
2) I would keep going straight (my reason is in depth and cannot be explained in one mere post ^^;;; )

-->Loyalty to one's self
-->Loyalty to one's family
-->Loyalty to one's friends
-->Loyalty to one's lover
-->Loyalty to one's religion
-->Loyalty to one's mentor
-->Loaylty to one's country
-->Loyalty to one's society

If you dont have any self confidence then you cant expect to succees.
You cant live expecting people to feel sorry for you your whole life. Family is very important, of course, I dont think anything needs to be explained there. I value friends more then a lover mainly because, well I dont have a lover. I also beleive Friends are very important people to you when growing up. I think religion is important, but not AS important as the above. Its good to know that im not the only atheist here. Its sad that in the land of religious freedom, people are still ridiculed because of their religious beleif. I may be an atheist but I wont have arguments trying to change people. I respect peoples religious beleifs, so it really makes me angry when I hear people make fun of the jewish, or other less common religions. Loyalty to ones mentor...ehhh, not that important to me. Alot of teachers arent very good anyway. Loyalty to ones country. I WISH I could put this higher, but sadly America is being run by a bunch of monkeys. As for loyalty to society, I pretty ,much share the same beleif of all the previous posters, as in not important at all.

The train question, thats pretty hard to answer. I'm also one who doesnt even like to kill insects.(cept them mosquitos of course!) I sometimes even try to catch them in plastic cups and throw them outside rather then killing them. I guess I would change the course. I would rather not endanger anyone, but one life lost isn't as bad as 15, I suppose.

As for changing one thing in this world, I share the same belief as the big omega.

Okay...I have my response to what I would do if I could have anything in the world.

I think that I would give every Human in the world a conscience...and force them to listen to it every once in a while. Although purging the world of all Humans that are evil seems more effective than what I am suggesting, who am I to judge the Human race?

The last thing I would do is label someone blatantly evil...I'll agree, all (if not most) Humans contain some evil within them.

For that, I could not purge the world of all that are evil. That's too...inhuman of me.

So, the best I can do to relieve the world of some of its evils (by destroying all of Humanity) is giving every Human a conscience and forcing them to listen to it...feeling self-inflicted guilt is a horrible feeling (I've felt it many a time)...and I think that is partly a result of one's conscience.

Does any of that make any sense? Probably not...

Okay, I'll give 6 more hours for responses to the Loyalty and Train questions...then I'll post my answers and move onto the next question.

And this time, I'll only post 1 question instead of 2...so that I can conserve more questions.

I already have the next 3 or so planned out...I'll probably think of a few more by this afternoon.

Well...it has been six hours...no new posts...I decided I'll give everyone one more chance...

At 8:00 p.m. EST, I will post my answers and the next two questions!

(I know I said one, but I thought of a really good question while on the subway this morning that I must post... )

So...that gives you another six hours...I had better see some more answers (for both questions. )

On a side note, all the responses thus far have been great...and I'm talking about the entire thread now (for the most part...excluding some of the spam posts near the beginning )

Answer to the evil question--

No creature can judge its own race. Or events in life effect our decision, therefore our comments or opinions are corrupted. What we do in life can not be considered evil. Being greedy, mean, rude, anything like that, doesnt give someone the right to destoy us. Life must continue, it is the purpose of living...