What the Hell are you HUMANS thinking? Birds and other winged creatures only!

The media jumps on war and the death of Americans because we are not used to it, and our society has much higher standards.

People fight wars to protect the innocent, but thats not what makes the dead heros. What makes a soldier a hero, is the state of danger he puts himself in, never expecting to be remembered, never expecting a thank you, and never expecting to survive the next battle. Soldiers are volunteers, they understand the risks involved, and they understand what they might accomplish if they fight, normally thats what drives a soldier to fight, not the nation telling them to.

I'd give my life 1000 times over to protect one child, who only wants to grow up to be a Veterenarian.

The reason so many more people die during wars in the past than todays, is because for one, America has more advanced weapondry than the 3rd world nations, and because more computers are being used to serve human jobs, and keep our soldiers alive. Imagine how much different WWI would be if we had a jet engine. Imagine how different Pearl Harbor wouldve been if we had sattelite imageing, we wouldve crushed the japanese fleet! So as every day passes, we lose fewer soldiers in war.

Real heroes aren't on TV. Real heroes aren't seen. Real heroes don't come home.

exactly man, right on

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Originally posted by K the Wanderer Real heroes aren't on TV. Real heroes aren't seen. Real heroes don't come home.

Every man and women in our services is a hero, they go out and expect to be killed, its thier reason that makes them heros. Anyone willing to give thier life for another is a hero, as long as they aren't dong it for some other reason to save that persons life.

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Originally posted by Manji quote: Originally posted by K the Wanderer Real heroes aren't on TV. Real heroes aren't seen. Real heroes don't come home. Every man and women in our services is a hero, they go out and expect to be killed, its thier reason that makes them heros. Anyone willing to give thier life for another is a hero, as long as they aren't dong it for some other reason to save that persons life.

Yes, that's correct.

quote:

Originally posted by Manji quote: Originally posted by K the Wanderer Real heroes aren't on TV. Real heroes aren't seen. Real heroes don't come home. Every man and women in our services is a hero, they go out and expect to be killed, its thier reason that makes them heros. Anyone willing to give thier life for another is a hero, as long as they aren't dong it for some other reason to save that persons life.

Beautifully put. Both of you. Whether or not you agree with the mechanics that lead to the start of a war, the HONEST soldiers and others who put there lives on the line for little thanks or recognition do not deserve scorn or reprimand.

I've watched this thread from afar, and found interesting - and since I don't typically do things half way, here goes...

Regarding American stereotypes: As is always the case with stereotypes, it's very difficult to determine where the truth ends and fabrications begin. As a foreigner myself, I've seen a few stereotypes that are, unfortunately, true: Americans don't take the time to learn other's languages as others do for them; Americans tend to be a bit arrogant at times when in other people's countries. Again, these are not absolute statements about the general population, but my own personal observations, deriving from experience. Which brings me to a point: Stereotype - almost by definition - are grossly generalist, and are inadequate to describe a collection of people. It's very difficult to know every single individual of a country on a personal level, but when you let stereotypes cloud your judgement regarding how you interact with people, then you're only contributing to a continuing problem. I could go on forever about stereotypes in history, xenophobia, and the like, but my next set of responses will answer those in a much more succinct manner . But I will briefly say this: Stereotypes and prejudgement works in certain situations and ounder certain senerios, but even then they are harmful, and in fact counter-active to where humanity might be evolving in thems of politics.

About war in general: I've already stated some of my opinions about topic in this thread, so I won't repeat . Just look at any of my posts, and you'll receive an answer . Well, those are my thoughts...for now.

And FP:

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Though I do think that wars are necessary for human evolution (it's part of a really crazy set of theories I have, perhaps I'll post them one day ), I wouldn't wish a war at all.

That intrigued me greatly. I would love to hear your ideas regarding that, and possibly strike a conversation .

quote:

Originally posted by K the Wanderer quote: Originally posted by Manji quote: Originally posted by K the Wanderer Real heroes aren't on TV. Real heroes aren't seen. Real heroes don't come home. Every man and women in our services is a hero, they go out and expect to be killed, its thier reason that makes them heros. Anyone willing to give thier life for another is a hero, as long as they aren't dong it for some other reason to save that persons life. Yes, that's correct.

With that rationale, then everyone can be a hero.

BUT that is a GOOD rationale, for I too believe in the potential that most of us would head in that direction. Or maybe it's irrational to believe that...scratch that, I have my reason and my faith, and that's what I'm going to stick with.

Well, I'm proud of the American Forces. They're out fighting for freedom, and freedom that isn't for them. Its a very generous usage of our forces on the global spectrum. They're all heroes.

Also, about stereotypes, I believe in the theory that a few bad apples spoil the entire bunch. TV and radio perpetuate a lot of stereotypes. And, now that there's satellite and stuff, people world-wide can access the stuff that a few dumb producers put on the air for some cheap laughs here. As many of you have said, stereotypes can't sweep and entire community. Really, they're just things a few people do that people pick up on and remember. I for one, try to fight stereotypes of America. I've been taking Chinese in High School (if I wanted to be just an ignorant fool, I would have opted for Spanish, since its one of the easier languages to learn, no diss to the Spanish language). However, because of a few people who have no will to learn in my class, it's turned into a gymnasium, with people yelling throughout the entire class (my teacher's a nice guy, so he doesn't stop them). I want to learn Chinese, but I'm limited by a few people who do follow the stereotype.

That's my rant...

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Originally posted by The Fallen Phoenix Okay, seriously now, I'm making this thread as a compromise of sorts. In this thread, everyone can work out their differences and dispel stereotypes and the like about the opposite sex, because I really hate sexist comments, statements, and stereotypes. Try and keep this serious (oh Holy Spirit I'm asking for a miracle). I'll start by asking, where do the stereotypes of men being lazy perverts come from? I'd like to hear input from a female of the forums and then perhaps some defense from one of the males.

Stereotype? No, guys are actually like that. Remind me to get a picture of my dad. If I didn't clean up after the guy, well, it'd be bad.


Oh and Phoenix. I've got my eyes on you.

greetings young ones i have to say your discussions on humans and artifical things are very interesting but heres what i say on this the reason why we buy useless things its becuse we have a hole in us and we need to fill it up with spirtulality not artifichaly. sorry sir for my spelling . anyways ive learned also about years we were born like baby boomers,baby busters,GenerationX and Mellinea i was born in 82 so im a mellinea . Anyways ladies and gentlemen wrere living in a world of the future thats yet to come we already have super intelligence gusse what it is?...... the internet and soon where going to have AI artifical inteligence actully scientisits already invented it sorry hehe but any ways were eventually going to live in a postmodern world and its already starting to come i tell you we live in a very crazy world but very interesting world also in the future we need to keep our faith in god very strong i thank you all for listening to my little speech god bless you all

you know im very proud to be an American when our troops are trying to protect us we should give them alot of credit for that.

ahh... i am very glad this thread has reawakended... now... to continue the format...

Next question:... and THIS one WILL become an issue in the furture.... unless religon yet agian discriminates...

Now... morally... this could be gay mariage.. but technicly... its not...

A few gay men have has sex changes... as well as massive ammounts of plastic sergery to look just like women... And there are some that REALLY do look like one...

Now... think about this for a moment... they arn't male... and now they dont fit the meaning of gay... they ARE straight!!! But... they used to be male...

How do you think people would reat if they found out that thier wife used to be a man... scientificly it fits perfectly... but morals it can collide with...

Would they be discriminated(chances are yes)? Or would it really matter... i mean.... there is not much difference between a male and female physicly.... and really its just showing nature and society that BOYA! i can be one of the crowd!!!

What would happen? How you YOU react if such a think happened to you? I'll post after someone else does...

Men and woman are diifferent besides the way they look on the outside. Different chemicals and such are always changing on the inside. Fat goes to differnet parts of the body ans such. You should stay the way you were born. An XY chromosome is there for a reason. Try to keep it that way. Besides, they were born male and are attracted to males therefor they are gay. If such a thing happened to me, the GUY would be lucky if I stopped at beating the crap out of him. Some things just shouldnt be kept secret, for a good reason.

I would certainly be surprized by someone like that. But I don't see a problem with it. I will probably not understand thier reason for doing so, but that doesn't matter. What matters is that someone shouldn't do something like that because of the danger to the body. Any surgery is dangerous, but something that severe is not physically healthy for the body. I would worry for thier health.

I would be very surprised wheni would hear this...

I would act a bit strangely for a few days... but id get used to it... understanding the backround and such... but it should something thats not hard to get over... well... unless she(or he) had a certain past of... hookerism or pimpist... than i mght... be a little on edge...

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Originally posted by Mr. ? Men and woman are diifferent besides the way they look on the outside. Different chemicals and such are always changing on the inside. Fat goes to differnet parts of the body ans such. You should stay the way you were born. An XY chromosome is there for a reason. Try to keep it that way...

The thing is that, when you are born one sex, your body continues to operate under the presumption that you are still that sex. Different levels of hormones are secreted between the sexes. Mental processes are different. The body carries out all its processes in different ways depending on the sex of the person. You can't trick your body into changing the way it operates. Even if there is a sex change, the person is still a man. Plus, the definiton of maleness comes from the presence of 1 X chromosome and 1 Y chromosome. There is no way to change that...

(Also, reproduction would be messed up, if it ever became possible.)

Look... trust me on this... the way people are treating cloing and dna... they will find a way... and people have already atleast changed a sex... im not sure if the children possiblity is there... which it probably isn't but it will come in the future... i can make a safe bet on that... or atleast discovered and then outlawed...

About the notions of gender: It should be marked that gender is not an immutable fact. Chromosomes are not the final say on how a person will look, act, or think according to their "gender". On the biological front, hormones play at least as great a part - and probably a greater part - than genes in determining sex, and the two often contradict one another, especially at the rush the occurs during puberty and the pre-birth stages. For instance, take a girl who was born an XX, but due to a glitch in her hypothalamus, she receives a massive amount of androgens before she was born. She is likely to display several male sexual characteristics during her life - traits that she might not understand. Bare in mind that this doesn't need to be a drastic, sharp "spike" in the endocrinal graph; it takes less then you know to sway a genetially dimorphic fetus one way or another.

What this bares to mind: Gender is much more flexible than people realize. That little girl I described would likely be called a "hermaphrodite" in earlier times if her symptoms were severe enough, and would probably have a very confused sense of "what she was", especially in our society as it has evolved in which gender roles are more of an aquired taste than something we follow blindly according to instincts. "Gender" - in my opinion and as my evidence suggests - is something quite different from "birth sex".

As this relates to the issue presented by Schwarzwald: I don't think that these marraiges should be considered "gay", because it's difficult to acertain how much of one "gender" some one is more than the other. I don't think there is any procedure in the court rooms that would be willing to make a quantitative measurement , and the issue at hand is one of morality vs. immorality, which is always a touchy subject.....

And about that: I wonder about the source of the arguements on either side. Is this morality defined as an affront on our long-established and safe societal mechanics, or is this something more ethereal? Anyone more intimately involved with the issues can give me a better understanding of the subject, and I would be at better grounds to debate for or against it .

I don't know, I purposely try to avoid moral debates. For one thing, no one wins, because everyone has a different sense of morals. Secondly, the debates tend to go out of control (someone takes offence, etc.)...

It's an...interesting idea, though. I think what Schwarzwald is really presenting is a hypothetical situation...not if this entered the court room, but what if this happened to you? How would you react?

Well...I can honestly say, I have no idea. I suppose if I was really deep in love with this girl (enough that I wanted to marry her), and then she tells me she was once a man...well, I'll probably be disturbed, that's for sure. But I don't know...I suppose the timing of the revelation would matter, as well. For two reasons. First, I might be more...forgiving (not the best word, but it fits here)...if I'm told earlier in the relationship, because that would (a) imply trust in me, something that is very important in my mind and (b) let me know exactly what I'm dealing with.

On the other hand, if I am told earlier in the relationship, I might be disturbed to the point that it overrides whatever romantic feelings I have for her.

There is another issue that Schwarzwald is touching on...and that would be, what are the boundaries of love? (This is a moral argument, so I am definately moving on shaky ground now) Does race matter? Religion? Yes, even gender? I don't know...

What do you all think?

Well those things shouldn't matter, but to many people they unfortunetly do. Why should things like these matter in the way of love?

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Originally posted by K the Wanderer Well those things shouldn't matter, but to many people they unfortunetly do. Why should things like these matter in the way of love?

((That is a bit undefined... and not exactly answering the question))

Because of the way we have been brought up... for so long we have discrimated and cencered out so much attention... until it finally shook and most of it fell apart when the Nazi rain ended....

Again i go off on religon...

Agian i must say that i do not wish to offend anyone nor am i trying to force this on any one... before i am accused of being a racist... and agian... followers of religons don't always tend to follow every rule(even though it would be a sin and from what i know... 1 sin... isn't exactly a warning...)

Many religons have morals about sex and such... MANY have thier own laws about homosexual activity... as well have many other issues such as masterbation and even hugging...

most of our morals today have sprouted from religon... as well as many actions in the past... INCLUDING THE NAZIS..... such things as hugging and... hand holding... are not allowed in many specific places...

most religon was origonally based on the 10 commendments... which to my knowledge didn't say anything about sex and such... it was the religons after it that set those into play...

I probley was baffling that how could something that seem so painful seem so good... it really does seem like an act of hate or... whats the word... naughtyism? Killing was part of the ideal... harm and pain go hand and hand... this is probly where the idea of the devil came from...

I have NO idea why priests couldn't have sex... meaby... there was a special sin system for them... and there are a few religons that didn't allow sec among anyone..... and yet still live on today... must of thought that they could hide this secaret from their all knowing god ....

Sex has gotten to the point where it becomes in decent among many to even talk about in public... of course it shouldn't be obsessed.... but really.... hand holding? Who ever this Mcdonalds inspirer was that made that law must have been drinking earilier...

anyway...
ON TO PHEONIX'S QUESTION!!! if i haven't already hit that

Yes it really shouldn't matter... geneticly us humans are very very similar... and really... some of the people out there think monkeys should have 98% of the rights we do for the same reason... and well.. bannanas have 50% the same dna....

but thats just an example... remember long ago your kindergarden teacher or uncle taught you this phrase? "we are all pink on the inside."... its like that..... races are arn't really much of a factor anymore unless you are deeply religous...

Hu... but religon agian... religon causes the most stress among people... one of the main groups in the politically correct wave... Its explained up there... can't have sex... and merry other religons or races... religon will be an awkward factor...

and back to gender... no... your body and mind are tuned to react to certain situations in certain ways... as well as becomeing interested in certain genders...

But really... love is something that you can no longer have in this world... not the widely known definition now atleast... shall i find the page we did this on? Or does any one care? Or has anyone even read this far?