Is R. Dorothy "fully functional"?

quote:

Originally posted by YoruameBaroness This is a dead thread, but after reading through here about the pleasure bots and stuff, I thought . . .that would decrease childbirth in some sense, wouldn't it? Why would a man bother to get married if he could just have fake [censored]? Now I kind of don't like that idea . . .*clings to a certain someone* Oh well. I'll probably be too old to worry about it by the time it comes about anyway.

I can't say weather that would happen or not. Sex is important to long term relationships but sex is not the relationship in itself. People don't get married just to have sex (in most cases, hopefully) what people are looking for, both men and women, is a companion through life, someone they love and can't imagine being without. As far as pleasure bots go that's just part of the porn/prostitution industry.

But I don't think it's entirely appropriate to ask that question here. In Big O Dorothy is practically human, she has emotions, she has freewill, in the universe of Big O she probably even has a soul (remember Roger's line in act 20 to Boneparte "Not too bad for a machine that hasn't got a soul"). There's no problem with Roger and Dorothy being together they love each other, there's no other issue here.

And as far as the birthrate question goes; it wouldn't be at all a bad thing for the birthrate to drop drastically. The planet's biggest problem right now world wide is over-population. Well, except for China where the issue is low female to male ratio, but you get my point.


muchlove
-Dork

Ah yes, population control -- the idea that the Paradigm would be a better place if we could get rid of the filthy scum living outside the domes. We've heard THAT before.

But I really don't think that building tremendously expensive android women is a cost-effective way of reducing the number of poor people in Paradigm, except possibly by giving them something to work harder and save up for, and by this extra labor becoming less poor.

Hi, gang. 1st post.

Dork linked this thread from [as]. Thanks! I'll toss in my two cents.

This is an interesting question. I find it slightly revealing that I have a 'preference' either way. To me, Dorothy is more seductive if she cannot have sex. But preferring tragic relationships may have more to do with... well, nevermind.

I find Dorothy's statement in 18?, "That's preposterous" unconvincing either way. She immediately says she "was just trying to lighten the mood". So, it's fair to say one of the statements must be false. Yet it's not obvious to me. And in any case, Dorothy can still be "Roger's android lover" without the capability to have sex.

I love making lists! Let me list the facts I find relevant and convincing:

1) The manequin bot in Wayneright's lab is "featureless". (It was suggested it was a different model, but I am not convinced this is so.)

2) Dorothy has hard, porcelain-like limbs. Less convincingly, Alan says he will "smash her hard body". (Made me think of American Psycho, the book.)

3) Dorothy is lubricated by high grade oil.

4) In 'Daemonseed' when offered tea, Dorothy claims "I can drink a little bit, but I don't need it." Hahaha. Let it settle in your brain.

Just with those four I can sketch a few things out. Even with that leg business, I think Dorothy could easily be soft. And with an internal engine, possibly warm. ... Hmm how to innuendo this? Well, to be perfectly crude, Dorothy has a mouth. They can kiss, and cuddle, and Roger can be 'satisfied' with her. Sorry, Angel!

I am still laughing about #4.

Hmm. Thinking in terms of the story, perhaps Dorothy's chastity is somehow essential? There are occaisional faint themes of a possible chivalric knight-maiden dynamic. She is occaisionally a 'damsel in distress,' and there is the line about Roger being a 'knight in shining armor'. Without really understanding the history, or reading any of the myths, I understand a knight-maiden relationship is highly sexual but totally sex-free. ... Slightly tempting, but not convincing for me. The virginity of a knight's maiden might be a little too obscure (or false) for Konaka to copy into the series.

Let me take this moment to gripe at act 26, without whose existence Big O would have been much easier to fit into a mystical theme/symbolism.

That is my contribution,
D. V.

PS - Speaking of sex bots. A friend once told me that Anton LeVey's dying testament commanded (among other things) his Church of Satan followers to develop sex bots to control the world economy. I guess he went nuts at the end.

First, I am absolutely thrilled you've joined PCF, Darius. Lilly and I were planning to steal you a couple weeks ago ^_^

Now, second, it is posible that Dorothy isn't sexual (in the technical sense of the word), the story's not over yet so no body knows for sure what Konaka's planning next or what wench he'll throw in next season. But judging from what I've seen of Konaka's Big O so far if Dorothy and Roger are in love (which I don't think is really a question anymore) than Dorothy is in all likelihood capable of a sexual relationship.

Konaka's been very realistic with the Dorothy/Roger relationship. What stands between the two of them working out isn't simply Dorothy's ability to feel emotions. For Roger he can't be happy with her if she's nothing more than a doll and he only accepts what he feels for her after she shows she has freewill, which to Roger is synonymous with being human.

Sex is important to longterm romantic attachments, it's not the relationship within itself but it's important. In season two Konaka addressed the issue of the other woman, freewill, weather a long term relationship was even possible (with Roscoe and Kelly), and if Roger thought enough of her humanity to put others at risk to save her (act 21). When he did all this I can't believe that line in act 18 was a throw away. As detailed as Konaka's writing is he wouldn't have put that line in there and implied that Dorothy and Roger could have that kind of relationship by accident.

As a side point a lot of people were put off from the anime 'Chobits' because of it's ending.

spoiler (highlight to read):

Chii and Hideki can never have a physical relationship because Chii's switch is between her legs. She would lose her memory if anything happened between them. I think what CLAMP was going for was an eternal young love. Pure and innocent. It's a nice idea I suppose, but not practical. Hideki is a highly sexualized 18 year old boy and somehow he's suppose to live the rest of his life with this persocom who can't take care of certain needs? It's a fairy tale. It can't work, esspecially with all those pornos Hideki had lying around, humans have needs and eventually he'll probably end up cheating on her.

I can't see Konaka being that blind. He's always been so reasonable in the past.

Third, the knight and shining armor lines. Yes, lines ^_^

The first time Big Ear says that to Roger is in act 1 "Are you going to be the knight in Shining armor and rescue the maiden?" Roger thought that Big Ear was referring to the human Dorothy, this is just after Roger came back from the warehouse and was still thinking there was still a human Dorothy out there to save. But Big Ear was referring to R. Dorothy. And it wasn't a simply physical rescue Big Ear was talking about either. Living with Wayneright Dorothy was nothing more than his doll. That's what Roger eventually rescues her from, that emotional prison, when he tears her out of Dorothy 1 telling her "You are Dorothy Wayneright. Just be who you are!"

The maiden Big Ear was reffering to in act 26 was Angel, though if Roger actually heard him he, as well as the audience at the time, thought the maiden was Dorothy. Same thing as before, Roger saves Angel from her own emotional hell in his speach to her when Big Venus shows up. From act 1 to act 26 Dorothy and Angel change roles and even mindsets to a large degree.

By act 26 Dorothy has developed into a strong willed woman who's confident in herself, occasionally she may need Roger's help (Alan for example) but she isn't defenseless and is able to save herself and Roger in act 26. Angel's the one who needs help, she lost her identity, she's lost her past, her humanity is even slipping from her (much like Dorothy in act 2) she does need someone to save her.

I don't think there's anything romantic in the knight in shining armor lines/metaphors. It's just another part of that odd connection Roger, Dorothy, and Angel share.


muchlove
-Dork

Yes, the example of Roscoe and Kelly Fitzgerald is hard to ignore (though some people have managed it). Android and human, happily married for at least 40 years.

Not to mention EYEWITNESS, where one of the murdered androids had a human partner who implied that he and the android were a couple, and hoped that Dastun and R. Freddie would be equally happy!

Careful not to go into the Yaoi there Act,

Looking at the overall picture, Dorothy must be able to perform such physical acts. She can consume nutrients (Though she has noted that she does not require them), she can experience emotion (Albeit usually hidden beneath her deadpan facade), and most importantly, she can feel.

This leads me to believe that despite all the other snippets, quotes, and implications, Dorothy is fully capable of persuing a sexual relationship.

No, as to whether (Take note Dork, that's the 'weather' you're looking for) Dorothy can have children and sustain a human child within her form. Although technology as it is now is no comparison against the technology that created Dorothy and the Megadeuses, I believe it to be possible. To be sustained within a human mother, a child requires 4 things: Warmth, Nutrience, Protection, and an Exit (Eventually). Providing warmth, protection, and an exit is the easy part, but nutrience would get a little trickier by todays standards, but would not be impossible.

I think this topic is rambling quite a bit, but I believe that Dorothy is perfectly capable of sexual relationships and sexual reproduction as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Lyinginbedmon I think this topic is rambling quite a bit, but I believe that Dorothy is perfectly capable of sexual relationships and sexual reproduction as well.

Holy crap! Where did you come up with that?

Forget about Megadeuses and such child's play. If Dorothy can do that, that is some incredibly advanced technology.

Human embryology is incredibly complex. Dorothy would have to contain some pretty remarkable mechanisms to have a child (not to mention how dorothy would carry a baby within her frame). You can't just grow a baby in a flask.

Who knows?

I actually agree with the "knight in shining armor" responses. The idea of the "pure" love is strongly Western, and while Konaka-san has been known to use Western themes, it's equally clear that they don't carry the same meaning.

Dorothy's really heavy for her size, maybe she *does* have complex machinery that would permit her to have children. Even if she can't, though, I don't see that she would be built in such a detailed, realistic manner and have such important... attributes... missing.

quote:

Originally posted by Lyinginbedmon No, as to whether (Take note Dork, that's the 'weather' you're looking for).

::blushes:: Thank you ^_^; Really, feel free to call me on spelling and grammar. I hate to mess up like that.

I think that, in the not too distant future, it may be possible for an artifical womb to hold a fetus -that had already began to germinate elsewhere. A machine could provide nutrition (if nutriants are somehow put into the machine), warmth, and protection. The trick is where to get the female DNA required to make a child.

In Big O itself if (read: when) Dorothy and Roger get together we will probably never find out any of this stuff first hand. The two of them will just get closer and anything physical between them will just be subtlely implied, if that. This baby question will definitely not show up, it's just not Konaka's style.

But that aside, female androids like Dorothy living in Paradigm might be capable of carrying a baby. I don't think it's possible for them to recreate all on their own, but an android might be able to act as a surrogate mother. If we want to be really wild and fan pleasing Angel and Roger could go to some Paradigm fertility clinic.

Even still, I don't like the idea of Dorothy and Roger having a child of their own, adopting maybe, but that sort of thing would make the relationship, the situation too perfect. A little tragedy is a good thing for fiction. For one thing, the audience tends not to think if you make everything perfect.

Anywho, I gotta go catch my ride. I just realized my Algebra class is beyond my current abilities and I'll have to drop it -I'm estatic. Make sense of that, would you? ^_^ I've got this insane notion in my head that I can do anything if I try hard enough, which means I beat the crap out of myself when I can't do something.

anywho.


muchlove
-Dork

well, for one thing, we shouldnt be concerned. i mean, by the time they kiss, the series is practically over. not to mention one of the good things about the show is their unique relationship (it isnt really romantic, but it can be).

If your just dying to know: she probably cant reproduce. intercourse is a maybe.

why would he make her parts? maybe just 2nd, but not 3rd. HE created HER for HIS enjoyment (not that kind) he wanted to have a daughter again. thats it. he didnt want a mechanical hooker.

It's entirely possible that Dorothy can have sex and all that, I would think. We would only need to presume that the necessary parts are made of some slightly different material (when Alan shoots her in the leg, it's like throwing a rock through fiberglass... a weird, hard hole). We'd have to assume she's more pliable where it counts.

Not that I necessarily believe Roger and Dorothy's relationship SHOULD go into sexual territory. I won't deny that it's a romantic relationship, definitely, but I just feel as though their dynamic would lose something if it were to cross into sexual territory. If nothing else, it's the sweet torment it puts the viewer through over all the tension between them. Get rid of the tension between two people and I tend to find that the overall interest in them plummets.

As for reproduction, I find that very, very hard to believe.

quote:

Originally posted by Lyinginbedmon Careful not to go into the Yaoi there Act,

*raised eyebrow* And why not?

quote:

Originally posted by Xel Not that I necessarily believe Roger and Dorothy's relationship SHOULD go into sexual territory. I won't deny that it's a romantic relationship, definitely, but I just feel as though their dynamic would lose something if it were to cross into sexual territory. If nothing else, it's the sweet torment it puts the viewer through over all the tension between them. Get rid of the tension between two people and I tend to find that the overall interest in them plummets.

I think Dorothy and Roger's relationship will progress in desirable ways (for all us hopeless romantics) in season three only because there was way too much drama over it in season two. It wasn't the fun bantering pseudo drama that Roger and Dorothy create on their own just by being in the same room together, but this 'will they won't they' drama.

Roger spazzed out over his feelings for Dorothy for a good five to seven episodes last season. It's fun to analyze Roger's mindset during that time, (including Roger' goodbye in act 24 and the stuff in act 26) but after all that more 'will they/won't they' drama in season three would just be annoying.

If any fictional romantic relationship gets complacent it's entertainment value will be lost. But the kind of tension I like with their relationship is the constant bickering and the way they're always finding new ways to annoy each other. They love each other desperately, I don't think anyone can deny that, but they live to annoy each other. And that's not going to go away even if they do get together.

I mean, come on, Roger's idea of flirting is baiting Dorothy into snarking at him. Their's is a different breed of romantic tension, the kind of tension that's only going to go away if they seek marriage counseling because on top of loving to bother each other they're also introverts. They both think they can solve any problem better than anyone else, they're pocessive of each other and want to know what the other's thinking but they will not convide in anyone and definitely not in each other. They're like an old married couple. They remind me of my grandparents.

Back on topic, I don't think they should jump in bed together at the first opportunity either. That's just a little weird. . . and a bit unhealthy. But I don't the relationship's tension desolving if they get together.


muchlove
-Dork

I was saying in chat the other night after all this tension and debate, I could see Act 27 opening something like this:

Music: Brick Ballades

The opening title shows and the camera pans out over the domes and zooms towards Roger's house. Cut to his room, where you see the familiar lump under the pile of blankets.

Zoom in closer to Roger and you realize that instead of his head being on his pillow, he is snoozing contentedly on Dorothy's shoulder.

Cut to Norman in the kitchen, making breakfast. He looks at the clock and counts down "Three... two... one..." and chuckles as suddenly the familiar strains of "Rundown" begin playing. As Norman starts serving the eggs you hear SLAM! "R. Dorothy SMITH!"


Hey, I could see it.

For fairness, if Dorothy can give birth to a human baby, Roger should, at the very least, assemble an android baby.

quote:

Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato For fairness, if Dorothy can give birth to a human baby, Roger should, at the very least, assemble an android baby.

Now there's something I can raise my glass to!

quote:

Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato For fairness, if Dorothy can give birth to a human baby, Roger should, at the very least, assemble an android baby.

Haha, well put.

i love that image!

quote:

Originally posted by ravenlore i love that image!

And your new avatar rocks.

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It's a good idea. But it needs something more. . . But I can't think of anything that won't immediently get me banned ^_^ Eh he he

quote:

Originally posted by Dork [quote]Originally posted by ravenlore i love that image!

And your new avatar rocks.

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what, mine?!?

thanks!

I don't know for sure if she is, however I'd like to find out.

Not to mention the fact that there are fan fics which feature a fully functional R. Dorothy.

"The Blossoming Rose", "Mr. and Mrs Smith", and "The Past Of Tommorow" by Our Own Lady Tesser

spoiler (highlight to read):

R. Dorothy Actually becomes Pregnant by Roger at the end of the third story.

Verry Interesting Stories I might add. (I highly Reccomend you read them there in the main sites fan fic page.)
Then there is my latest project "The Two Dorothys".

spoiler (highlight to read):

In which The Real Dorothy Wayneright shows R. Dorothy how to create her own body heat,

She also reminds her that Timmothy Wayneright made her to be just like her.