Is R. Dorothy "fully functional"?

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Originally posted by Tony Well, I was giving this some serious thought (yeah, crazy but true) and I still think it's possible, even without a fully functioning uterus. I'll bet Timothy Wayneright placed 10 - 20 times the sensors (or just increased the sensitivity) in her vulva area (especially the area where the clitoris should be). If these sensors are mapped to her pleasant receptors and is equipped with a procedure that simulates an orgasm after a certain amount of stimuli from these receptors, you bet she would be "fully functional".

Technically, it's a piece of cake. Dorothy clearly has a sophisticated nervous system, or she wouldn't be able to do the things she does. We can take the nerves for granted.

Arousal will presumably require that her brain be receptive to that sort of thing. Also, to get the simulated biochemistry right, she's going to need simulated hormone responses. (This is true for all sorts of responses, including pleasure, pain, joy, and sorrow. People talk about minds as if they're all brain and nothing else, but glands are important, too!)

When I wrote my Season 3, I simply assumed that the android brain was analogous to a human brain; that it was initialized by copying a human mind into it; that there were a set of simulated hormones that caused the same responses in the android brain that the same stimulation would to a human brain; and that the nervous system had some kind of conversion units to allow a brain that worked like a human brain deal with a body that was built on different principles.

Also, I assumed that Megadeuses were just the same.

This eliminated the whole AI question, except where overrides and inhibitions were concerned. The mind is human.

As for pregnancy, I don't think you can build androids that way. For Dorothy to gestate a human baby would require a great deal of equipment she surely doesn't have at the moment. From a practical point of view, having a free-standing artificial womb would probably be more practical than having her lug it around as part of her for nine months, though this would strike some people as less romantic.

quote:

Originally posted by Tony Well, I was giving this some serious thought (yeah, crazy but true) and I still think it's possible, even without a fully functioning uterus.

Of course it is.

In all honesty, in the here and now, I expect pleasure-bot models will come first. Right now, that's where the money is.

A doll that could respond, even if it were in a very rudimentary fashion, would sell better, thus encouraging further advances. When its responses became sufficiently advanced, it might even be used as a tool for sex therapy and possibly, as R. Truesdale brought up, a means of stemming the spread of HIV, at least through the prostitution vector.

Once there's a doll that does a decent job of emulating a woman sexually, it won't be long before some bright researcher decides to make the doll multi-functional. I could see a day in the future where you could buy an android "wife" if you so desired.

If the development of androids follows this paradigm (and there's a great deal of evidence to suggest that it is doing so even as we speak), then it's unlikely that sexual functionality would ever be removed.

One last thought--even if the androids had no sexual functionality to start with, once they were developed to the point of self-awareness, it would only be a matter of time before some kind of upgrade was available--I'm sure they would want to see what all the fuss over sex was about.

quote:

Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato quote: Originally posted by Tony Well, I was giving this some serious thought (yeah, crazy but true) and I still think it's possible, even without a fully functioning uterus. I'll bet Timothy Wayneright placed 10 - 20 times the sensors (or just increased the sensitivity) in her vulva area (especially the area where the clitoris should be). If these sensors are mapped to her pleasant receptors and is equipped with a procedure that simulates an orgasm after a certain amount of stimuli from these receptors, you bet she would be "fully functional". Technically, it's a piece of cake. Dorothy clearly has a sophisticated nervous system, or she wouldn't be able to do the things she does. We can take the nerves for granted. Arousal will presumably require that her brain be receptive to that sort of thing. Also, to get the simulated biochemistry right, she's going to need simulated hormone responses. (This is true for all sorts of responses, including pleasure, pain, joy, and sorrow. People talk about minds as if they're all brain and nothing else, but glands are important, too!) When I wrote my Season 3, I simply assumed that the android brain was analogous to a human brain; that it was initialized by copying a human mind into it; that there were a set of simulated hormones that caused the same responses in the android brain that the same stimulation would to a human brain; and that the nervous system had some kind of conversion units to allow a brain that worked like a human brain deal with a body that was built on different principles. Also, I assumed that Megadeuses were just the same. This eliminated the whole AI question, except where overrides and inhibitions were concerned. The mind is human. As for pregnancy, I don't think you can build androids that way. For Dorothy to gestate a human baby would require a great deal of equipment she surely doesn't have at the moment. From a practical point of view, having a free-standing artificial womb would probably be more practical than having her lug it around as part of her for nine months, though this would strike some people as less romantic.

If childbirth were that important, she could have artificial insemination, couldn't she? Or whatever it's called where you have the fertilized egg placed into your womb. I mean, I'm sure she's programmed some sort of way so that she could give life if she really wanted to. I mean, the way I look at it is . . .if she can have an orgasm, she can have a kid.

O_O.

What the hell am I saying?! Why do I care?! *beats it*

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Originally posted by YoruameBaroness If childbirth were that important, she could have artificial insemination, couldn't she? Or whatever it's called where you have the fertilized egg placed into your womb.

Sure. The problem is that Dorothy is electromechanical. A human woman diverts part of her body's resources to supporting the baby. Dorothy's resources aren't compatible with babies -- assuming we're talking about human babies. I sorta don't believe in the concept of android babies. I figure they're assembled, fully grown, in a factory or lab.

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I mean, I'm sure she's programmed some sort of way so that she could give life if she really wanted to. I mean, the way I look at it is . . .if she can have an orgasm, she can have a kid.

Ah, if only it were that simple! So far, the technology for artificial gestation doesn't exist. It's far simpler to use a real woman for the task.

[Note to self ... this needs to be a plot thread in my Season 4...]

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Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato quote: Originally posted by YoruameBaroness I mean, I'm sure she's programmed some sort of way so that she could give life if she really wanted to. I mean, the way I look at it is . . .if she can have an orgasm, she can have a kid. Ah, if only it were that simple! So far, the technology for artificial gestation doesn't exist. It's far simpler to use a real woman for the task.

I doubt we can use our own technology as a benchmark. We haven't created sentient androids yet. So, I believe we can at least make allowances towards the notion of childbearing-enabled androids. As for how, Lady Tesser had some ideas. However, I am sure there are more techniques. One day, I hope to write about it.

I swiped this from a friend. Don't think . . .just enjoy. (Although the majority here have seen this)

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Originally posted by YoruameBaroness I swiped this from a friend. Don't think . . .just enjoy. (Although the majority here have seen this)

I'll break your "no thinking" rule. I haven't seen it. Is it from the actual manga?

Plus, Dorothy could have just adopted a kid.

That child has an onion for a head!

Since Dorothy is a machine not a biological organsim she would have no DNA and therefore be incapable of producing her own offspring wether she was artificially inseminated or not. The egg would have to be that of a donor. However, if Wayneright had saved some of the human Dorothy's DNA (preferrably a stem-cell) it is possible that he could have had some geneticist (and there seems to be plenty of those around Paradigm) creat an egg that would be identicle to one the human Dorothy would have produced and saved it somewhere so that Dorothy could one day have children with a human father (a.k.a. Roger Smith)

That plan would actually make a whole lot of sense. Dorothy could still produce grandchildren for him and carry on his bloodline and would be closer to being actually human. Why wouldn't he just clone her if he had that ability? Because the clone would start out as an infant, so it wouldn't be the continuation or Dorothy's life it would be a new life starting out.

Just my thoughts.

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Originally posted by Zola quote: Originally posted by Tony Well, I was giving this some serious thought (yeah, crazy but true) and I still think it's possible, even without a fully functioning uterus. Of course it is. In all honesty, in the here and now, I expect pleasure-bot models will come first. Right now, that's where the money is. A doll that could respond, even if it were in a very rudimentary fashion, would sell better, thus encouraging further advances. When its responses became sufficiently advanced, it might even be used as a tool for sex therapy and possibly, as R. Truesdale brought up, a means of stemming the spread of HIV, at least through the prostitution vector. Once there's a doll that does a decent job of emulating a woman sexually, it won't be long before some bright researcher decides to make the doll multi-functional. I could see a day in the future where you could buy an android "wife" if you so desired. If the development of androids follows this paradigm (and there's a great deal of evidence to suggest that it is doing so even as we speak), then it's unlikely that sexual functionality would ever be removed. One last thought--even if the androids had no sexual functionality to start with, once they were developed to the point of self-awareness, it would only be a matter of time before some kind of upgrade was available--I'm sure they would want to see what all the fuss over sex was about.

You make a good point there, Zola. The whole sex industry, like the military, is a driving force of progress. The idea of creating a "pleasure bot" for the purposes of sex makes a lot of sense. I would like to add another usage to the list. If a soldier goes overseas, who are they too "release their tension." Well, if you have a pleasure bot, you wouldn't worry about the enemy infesting the local population with STDs, since the soldier would've brought their own...err... intimate companion. Furthermore, many of the domestic responsibilities would be handled by the android, freeing the soldier to perform the task at hand. Also, since the android would not be doing the actual killing, Asimov's robotic laws would be preserved. All of the supplying, cooking, cleaning, caring, nursing, and intimate encounters would be handled by androids. I know, it's not good to use others for military purposes, but they have the big bucks and, with the help of the private sector, will make a human companion substitute to boost the moral of the troops without introducing additional risks to civilians.

If there was a Dorothy bot, I would've joined the military years ago. She would love my way of saluting.

Yeah, the baby pic is from Lost Memory. It's cute, but also worrisome. The baby (I nicknamed him Andy cuz he's an android ^_^) and

spoiler (highlight to read):

Pero

quickly disappear(s) the manga after he's/their used. WHAT IS ROGER DOING TO THEM!?

I think Andy was a metaphor though

spoiler (highlight to read):

but what the hell happened to Pero?! XD

.

I see no problem with Roger and Dorothy adopting a baby/fostering a child. Roger's a foster child himself, so I very much doubt he'd be againist the idea.

I'm againist the idea of android/human reproduction. It reeks of making life too perfect, a little unfairness is a good thing, at least where a story's concerned. If you try to correct too many of the things that don't seem fair then the entire story will get sugery sweet and unwatchable. But if android/human reproduction were possible it would be done the natural way. Artifical insemination just takes all the fun out of it. God gave us the ability to have and (more importantly) to enjoy sex for a reason. It isn't just functional.

I know we joke about Dorothy wearing Roger out but I get the feeling, I don't know if this is true or not, that some people here think that Dorothy doesn't want to have sex and that if she does it's only because she wants to 'please her man'. Dorothy is a passionate character. She doesn't emote well, but the feelings she has are real and deep and greatly affect her actions.

"Why Roger? Why is it perposterous? You are so creul." Next time you watch act 18 listen to the way she says that. There's a pained tinge to her voice. If someone you loved said right in front of you that the idea of making love to you was poposterous you would be hurt. And Dorothy is deffinatly hurt. If she were capable of sex but had no interest in it aside from 'pleasing her man' she'd have been more insulted than hurt.



muchlove
-dork

edited: corrected certain crimes againist grammar.

LOL, crimes against grammar.

I always called the baby "Onionhead". LOL.

Anyway, I just realized that if Dorothy has those parts for pleasure, she could possibly have them for reproduction. But, for her to be able to reproduce, she'd have to have sex cells. And if she did have eggs, then her body would go through the menstruation cycle each month, meaning that she would have a menstrual cycle. Since Dorothy doesn't have blood, it'd be pointless for her to bleed every month and I'd certainly pity her if she had to feel icky every month like human women do, so I think she may be better off having sex organs for pleasure purposes only.

I don't know if the above paragraph makes any sense or if I'm just typing random thoughts off the top of my head.

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Originally posted by Dork I see no problem with Roger and Dorothy adopting a baby/fostering a child. Roger's a foster child himself, so I very much doubt he'd be againist the idea. I'm againist the idea of android/human reproduction. It reeks of making life too perfect, a little unfairness is a good thing, at least where a story's concerned. If you try to correct too many of the things that don't seem fair then the entire story will get sugery sweet and unwatchable. But if android/human reproduction were possible it would be done the natural way. Artifical insemination just takes all the fun out of it. God gave us the ability to have and (more importantly) to enjoy sex for a reason. It isn't just functional.

R. Dork Wayneright! If you insist on kicking me below the belt, might I suggest the shins? It will hurt just as much, yet not damage my reproduction system. j/k

Really, I am a certifiable dreamer. The idea of Roger and Dorothy having their own child through some technological miracle is something I always cherished. I know it sounds creepy, but if Dr. Wayneright created an artificial womb that converted his genetic material into fertilizable eggs so that she may have a shot at bearing the children of the man she loves. Then again, I do believe in Schwartzwald Claus, the Angel Bunny and Alan-Leprechauns.

** Looks around **

I think I need my medication now.

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Originally posted by Dork I know we joke about Dorothy wearing Roger out but I get the feeling, I don't know if this is true or not, that some people here think that Dorothy doesn't want to have sex and that if she does it's only because she wants to 'please her man'. Dorothy is a passionate character. She doesn't emote well, but the feelings she has are real and deep and greatly affect her actions.

I agree with you 100%. Like most quite people I know, Dorothy is quite in public but a fox behind closed doors. Seriously though, judging by the way she treated Pero and Tammy, she is more than capable of being kind, caring and affectionate. I am totally convinced of this. Who would risk suicide by shorting her circuitry to keep from killing her employer? Maybe someone who “feels” she cannot hurt the one she “loves”.

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Originally posted by Tony The whole sex industry, like the military, is a driving force of progress. The idea of creating a "pleasure bot" for the purposes of sex makes a lot of sense.

Yup. Porn and sex has been the driving force for many of today's technology.

For example:

Photographs - take pictures of naked people
Movies - watch naked people move around
Polaroid - take pictures of naked people in private!
Hand held movie camera - make your own porn
VHS - porn in your home!
Internet - #1 money maker on the internet
Digital cameras - see polaroids

And finally robots! C'mon you know all those Japanese people are thinking about it when they're making that stuff.

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Originally posted by ImSoAwesome quote: Originally posted by Tony The whole sex industry, like the military, is a driving force of progress. The idea of creating a "pleasure bot" for the purposes of sex makes a lot of sense. Yup. Porn and sex has been the driving force for many of today's technology. For example: Photographs - take pictures of naked people Movies - watch naked people move around Polaroid - take pictures of naked people in private! Hand held movie camera - make your own porn VHS - porn in your home! Internet - #1 money maker on the internet Digital cameras - see polaroids And finally robots! C'mon you know all those Japanese people are thinking about it when they're making that stuff.

Well, if the Japanese, Americans or Europeans can perfect that, you can be anything I will be one of the first to get me an R. Dorothy Wayneright. I hope the warranty covers strenuous usage, or I may have to by two of them.

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Originally posted by Tony I hope the warranty covers strenuous usage, or I may have to by two of them.

One up and one down, eh, Tony?

Maybe you should be like my friend's parents, whose rule with appliances was "a pair and a spare." No kidding; they had two washers hooked up and ready to go, with a third in a box.

Pygmalion

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Originally posted by Dork I'm againist the idea of android/human reproduction. It reeks of making life too perfect, a little unfairness is a good thing, at least where a story's concerned. If you try to correct too many of the things that don't seem fair then the entire story will get sugery sweet and unwatchable.

But the flip side is very interesting, don't you think? If they want children, can't have them, and don't instantly agree on an alternative, then the door is open for all sorts of conflict, misunderstandings, and suggested resolutions that affect the audience in whichever way you like:

Example 1:

DOROTHY: Roger, I think you should ask Angel to bear your children.

Example 2:

ROGER: Dorothy, Norman noticed this little kid wandering around in the street...

Example 3:

DOROTHY: Roger, I want to use Father's plans to activate another R. Dorothy. I want there to be an R. Dorothy who isn't as messed up as me.

Example 4:

BECK: If we can record human personalities and put them into an android, and can record the android persnality and put it into another android, that's immortality, pal! You want your precious Dorothy to live forever, don't you? Just finance my operation and don't ask too many questions.

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Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato In my fan-fiction Season 3, I decided to work on the assumption that androids like Dorothy had strong ties to Megadeuses (we see this again and again in the show), and also (and this is the part I threw in) to Dominuses. In short, a properly functioning Megadeus team consists of a Megadeus, a Dominus, and an android of Dorothy's type. I also decided that, since Dorothy believes that she's fully functional, that it is normal and desirable for the Dominus and his android to be lovers. The android, who isn't allowed to kill, helps keep the Dominus and Megadeus sane, and her Dominus lover helps keep her human, in spite of all the scary robotic functions that share her head with her human personality.

That makes perfect sense! Roger seems to need Dorothy as the "key" to Big O at times. In Act 26, it is Dorothy who plugs Big O's wires into her back. And she communicates with the megadeuses, we all know that. So it's like a system of checks and balances, the android keeps the human in check to keep them from acting on their emotions sometimes, and the human keeps the android in check by determining what's right and what's wrong factoring in the "human factor". Remember Act 15?? The dominus was the android-Senator while his wife was HUMAN. (So to all those people who doubt that androids are far from human: Hello, they show you a human-android couple who've been married for 40 years!)

I say sure! why not? I mean I think anything is possible and anythig goes so why not let the Androids have human lovers if they choose to do so! ^_^"" I hope in the future we can see this sort of thing for real! ^_^"

I'm going to say yes, yes she is. If Timothy Wayneright wanted badly enough to recreate hiis dead daughter in his own image/perception of her. Not so much for the sexuality issue as so much for the issues of grand children for his own personal enjoyment and continuing the Wayneright family line.

Just a hunch. I'm almost half-convinced that there's genetic material from Dorothy Prime floating around somewhere...perhaps hidden in that copper room.

As I see it, the bigger issue has already been discussed here: she can but can she enjoy it? To that I also say yes. In her own fashion

Just another hunch.