Is R. Dorothy "fully functional"?

Wazpy 05-21-2004 05:57 PM
Also, I just remembered that we saw a naked Dorothy-bot in one of the early season 2 episodes. Didn't have anything fleshy on it. Then there's all the whirling noises she makes and the fact that she has enough metal on her to be greatly effected by Beck's magnets. I just don't see her being so human.

There's no evidence of anything organic in her...other than her hair...
Dork 05-21-2004 06:07 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Wazpy
Also, I just remembered that we saw a naked Dorothy-bot in one of the early season 2 episodes. Didn't have anything fleshy on it. Then there's all the whirling noises she makes and the fact that she has enough metal on her to be greatly effected by Beck's magnets. I just don't see her being so human.

There's no evidence of anything organic in her...other than her hair...


The naked Dorothy-bot was a different type of robot. It was light-weight, had little rockets on the bottom of her feet, was un-affected by the electro-magnet and didn't any facial movements. There are difinitely 'fleshy' parts of Dorothy. Since she's animated we don't pay as much attention to it but we've seen her elbows, fingers, neck (+ clevage Big Grin ), knees and ankles and we've never seen anything resembling a robotic joint. Her joints are all very natural, they aren't like that light-weight model in Wayneright's mansion. That thing's joints were all very obviously machanical. Also Dorothy's facial movements are very natural,. . . as were R-D's. . .
A Clockwork Tomato 05-21-2004 06:09 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Wazpy
Also, I just remembered that we saw a naked Dorothy-bot in one of the early season 2 episodes. Didn't have anything fleshy on it. Then there's all the whirling noises she makes and the fact that she has enough metal on her to be greatly effected by Beck's magnets. I just don't see her being so human.


The android in Wayneright's house was as different from Dorothy as Glinda was from Dorothy 1. Both Glinda and the android were the lightweight aerobatic model. You'll notice that the android did NOT become stuck to the overhead electromagnet even when she flew past it, while it picked Dorothy up from the floor. Also, her joints were articulated differently and she had almost no internal structure.

I wonder if Dorothy's whirring isn't something she does to annoy people. She certainly doesn't do it all the time!

In my fan-fiction Season 3, I decided to work on the assumption that androids like Dorothy had strong ties to Megadeuses (we see this again and again in the show), and also (and this is the part I threw in) to Dominuses. In short, a properly functioning Megadeus team consists of a Megadeus, a Dominus, and an android of Dorothy's type. I also decided that, since Dorothy believes that she's fully functional, that it is normal and desirable for the Dominus and his android to be lovers. The android, who isn't allowed to kill, helps keep the Dominus and Megadeus sane, and her Dominus lover helps keep her human, in spite of all the scary robotic functions that share her head with her human personality.

The expense and complexity of such an android is neither here nor there, since it would be a drop in the bucket compared with the cost of a Megadeus, and whatever makes the Megadeus team more effecive (and less likely to go off the deep end) is going to be worth it.

I don't know what the folks at Sunrise have in mind, but that works for me!
Tony Waynewrong 05-21-2004 06:10 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Wazpy
I'm aware that their relationship is different in the manga...but this is about how she was built...besides...why would Dr. Waynright bother putting in "the goods"? He wasn't going to have sex with her....was he?... Shocked


Why do some painters and sculpturers try their hardest to make their art so lifelike? Because this challenge itself makes it worth his/her while. Same reason applies to Timothy Wayneright.

As for her lacking fleshy material, that's really based of speculation. The android that attacked Roger was uncompleted. Therefore, we don't know if it was to look like Dorothy, or was supposed to be a utility droid.
Wazpy 05-21-2004 06:20 PM
Based on how old dr. Wayneright was when he finished her, I doubt he'd spend so much time on making her a perfect human. My guess is that he would consider finished as soon as her mind was done.

Well, Big Ear looked pretty organic, but he isn't human at all (other than mentally). I guess its impossible to know until Dorothy starts streaking...hopefully that will happen in Season 3...
Tony Waynewrong 05-21-2004 06:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Wazpy
Well, Big Ear looked pretty organic, but he isn't human at all (other than mentally). I guess its impossible to know until Dorothy starts streaking...hopefully that will happen in Season 3...


It seems that Dorothy only makes that whirling sound around strangers and to remind others she's an android. However, most of the time she is fools people in Paradigm City that she's human. Look at how Laura, Oliver, Norman and Big Ear were fooled by her appearance. Also, in one Act, there was a scene of a pale girl talking on the phone in the Speakeasy. Her skin tone was the same as Dorothy's.
Son_of_Horus 05-21-2004 06:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Dork
quote:
Originally posted by Wazpy
Heh...that's not exactly official...and they're not having realations...she's kinda preventing that from happening at all Wink


Yeah, I kinda thought that fan comic was about Roger's repeated unsuccessful attempts to score while they're taking a bath japanese style.


Erm... Not really sure what fan fic you're talking about but what I have is an actual manga (albeit unofficial I suppose) and he DOES score.
He just needed to be "humbled a little bit" so he would change his approach...
I just didn't think that part would be appropriate for this forum.

I got a lot of weird mangas.

I really got into collecting sub-storyline stuff heavily after my hero Nicolas D. Wolfwood got killed off in Trigun
That actually scared my soul, I blamed Vash for making him soft, getting him killed and the whole nine yards.
When Paradise aired it just plain P***ed me off.
I have some forgiveness in my heart since the manga takes a different direction but that's just the way that anime differs from the printed art.
The storylines are like that.

Go figure, eh?



Dork 05-21-2004 06:58 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Son_of_Horus
quote:
Originally posted by Dork
quote:
Originally posted by Wazpy
Heh...that's not exactly official...and they're not having realations...she's kinda preventing that from happening at all Wink


Yeah, I kinda thought that fan comic was about Roger's repeated unsuccessful attempts to score while they're taking a bath japanese style.


Erm... Not really sure what fan fic you're talking about but what I have is an actual manga (albeit unofficial I suppose) and he DOES score.
He just needed to be "humbled a little bit" so he would change his approach...
I just didn't think that part would be appropriate for this forum.

I got a lot of weird mangas.

I really got into collecting sub-storyline stuff heavily after my hero Nicolas D. Wolfwood got killed off in Trigun
That actually scared my soul, I blamed Vash for making him soft, getting him killed and the whole nine yards.
When Paradise aired it just plain P***ed me off.
I have some forgiveness in my heart since the manga takes a different direction but that's just the way that anime differs from the printed art.
The storylines are like that.

Go figure, eh?





Where do you get those things?
Son_of_Horus 05-21-2004 07:03 PM
I got a few friends who live in the Land of the Rising Sun.
Something neat comes up I either get a zip file or snail-mailed a "care package".
Wink
Pygmalion 05-21-2004 07:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Son_of_Horus
quote:
Originally posted by Dork
quote:
Originally posted by Wazpy
Heh...that's not exactly official...and they're not having realations...she's kinda preventing that from happening at all Wink


Yeah, I kinda thought that fan comic was about Roger's repeated unsuccessful attempts to score while they're taking a bath japanese style.


Erm... Not really sure what fan fic you're talking about but what I have is an actual manga (albeit unofficial I suppose) and he DOES score.
He just needed to be "humbled a little bit" so he would change his approach...

Unofficial manga are also known as doujinshi. Since they are fan works, they are as canonical as any fan fiction; i.e. not at all.

What I want to know is, why does Roger end up the patsy in so many stories?

Pygmalion
Zola 05-21-2004 07:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Wazpy
Also, I just remembered that we saw a naked Dorothy-bot in one of the early season 2 episodes. Didn't have anything fleshy on it. Then there's all the whirling noises she makes and the fact that she has enough metal on her to be greatly effected by Beck's magnets. I just don't see her being so human.

There's no evidence of anything organic in her...other than her hair...


That wasn't a naked Dorothy-bot, it was an unfinished Dorothy-bot. Big difference. And it's not like they would have SHOWED whether there was anything there or not, the ep would have been censored at the least. Wink

As far as "enough room" for "attributes" (Thank you, Lando Molinari) goes... I've been racking my brain to figure out a way to put this in sufficiently PG language. I guess the best way to put it is that except in the case of certain deceased porn stars (LD Silver), you don't *need* that much room, even if you are... shall we say "the higher side of average".

I don't want this discussion to degenerate too far into the gutter, but I did send a polite letter of inquiry to that place that makes the really life-like special dolls. If they get back to me, I'll give you the actual numbers.

So that no one who shouldn't immediately tries to go and look at the site (and no, I won't tell anyone under 18 the URL, so don't ask!), I will say that the dolls contain no organic materials either. They have a steel skeleton and use several different types of silicon depending on body part. So they might well get picked up by a sufficiently strong magnet. Hard to say, I don't know how much steel is used and I figured one off-the-wall question was plenty. Wink

Some "clean" pics of these dolls can be seen in the Androids and Gender thread, which is why I have a lot of this info. I am interested in actually making an android, and there are some very good reasons to make at least some androids fully functional (see R. Truesdale's post about stemming the spread of AIDS as one example that's in the thread). All jokes about dirty minds aside, wanting to create an android is the real reason that I have given this so much thought.

If I got to the point that I had some of the programming problems figured out, I might well go to a company such as the one that makes those dolls for financing. They would get an improved product and I could keep working on perfecting my design.

In any event, I don't know if the creators of the show intend that Dorothy is functional or not. I would tend to say yes because of the way she is portrayed. I think I have also just proved it is possible.
Son_of_Horus 05-21-2004 07:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Pygmalion
Unofficial manga are also known as doujinshi.


Yes but I wasn't sure how many people recognized that word so I just called it manga.

As far as Roger being the patsy is concerned it's probably just because it's fun. The guy does have center stage most of the time.

While the above doujinshi is hilarious its approach to the relationship it is still "manga".

The fact that it really has absolutely nothing to do with the official storyline is what makes it even funnier.

In both the official manga and the anime, there's a real paucity of story lines regarding other characters in Big-O and that's always disappointed me.

Take Norman and Alan Gabriel for example, or even T-Bone and Dove.
It's frustrating things like these which have led me to the conclusion that good fan fiction is just as legitimate as the "official" storyline.
Because at least in fan fiction those story lines get addressed.

It's really not the writers fault, they have to budget things out.
"x" amounts of episodes plus "y" amount of story lines equals "z" (another season).

I just don't take the official storyline as Gospel.
Nor do I relegate good fan fiction to the category of Apocrypha.

Please don't think that I'm saying that anyone here is doing that, I'm just speaking for myself.

To me Dorothy has the goods and Roger is more concerned about what people will think and the fact that Human Android sexual types of relationships are frowned upon both in Paradigm City and outside the domes.
(Unless you're a powerful member of the ruling class that is)

I don't remember the storyline saying that anywhere...
I just think that way because that's where my imagination takes me.
Son_of_Horus 05-21-2004 07:39 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Zola

I don't want this discussion to degenerate too far into the gutter, but I did send a polite letter of inquiry to that place that makes the really life-like special dolls. If they get back to me, I'll give you the actual numbers.

It's really weird that you would bring this topic up.
The "adult entertainment industry" is currently pouring more money into artificial intelligence research than is NASA.
They have some strong financial motivations for this.
One of these companies will be the next Toyota Motor Corporation, albeit for an entirely different product.
Zola 05-21-2004 07:46 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Son_of_Horus
quote:
Originally posted by Zola

I don't want this discussion to degenerate too far into the gutter, but I did send a polite letter of inquiry to that place that makes the really life-like special dolls. If they get back to me, I'll give you the actual numbers.

It's really weird that you would bring this topic up.
The "adult entertainment industry" is currently pouring more money into artificial intelligence research than is NASA.
They have some strong financial motivations for this.
One of these companies will be the next Toyota Motor Corporation, albeit for an entirely different product.


Not odd at all, it's perfectly logical. A "responsive" product would be more saleable. Sex sells. That's why we have the internet and broadband, although most histories of the internet prefer to ignore it.

Part of the reason the internet got so popular so fast was because of the ease and privacy of getting porn, it's that simple. Most of the early adopters of broadband wanted it for better downloading. When there's demand, someone will figure out a way to fill it.
Dork 05-21-2004 07:48 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Son_of_Horus
To me Dorothy has the goods and Roger is more concerned about what people will think and the fact that Human Android sexual types of relationships are frowned upon both in Paradigm City and outside the domes.
(Unless you're a powerful member of the ruling class that is)


No where in the show do they give any idication that physical/romantic relationships between humans and androids are frowned upon in Paradigm. Prolly because androids that are capable of physical relationships and ones that desire romantic relationships are human enough to completely blend into Paradigm's society without anyone but their closest friends being any the wiser.

In 'Roger the Negotiator' Roger is quite surprised to discover Dorothy is an android. He's never seen or heard of an android like Dorothy. The androids he, and the rest of Paradigm, are familar with are the ones like Instro.



muchlove
-dork
BigPrime 05-21-2004 07:51 PM
quote:
It's frustrating things like these which have led me to the conclusion that good fan fiction is just as legitimate as the "official" storyline.
Because at least in fan fiction those story lines get addressed.


Good fanfiction is good, to be sure. I'd never criticize a person for liking or writing it as I write it and read it myself. It can be damn good reading and if a show is cut short (say, like Hellsing for example), can be a good substitute or way to express your thoughts on things. However, it's difficult to use it in a debate as it has no "official" standing because it's not endorsed by the creators/owners of the show.

For instance, the current debate on whether Dorothy is "fully functional". Most fans believe she should be, and I'm sure there's plenty of fanfic out there to back that up. In the end, though, all that matters is what the show's writers actually gave us. However, as luck would have it, they've implied she is indeed capable of having a relationship with Roger in more than just the emotional sense.
Son_of_Horus 05-21-2004 07:58 PM
(In response to Zola's Comments)

Oh absolutely!
The I've been telling people in A.I. for years now that the idea of a mechanical "domestic assistant" is so far out of the spectrum of consumer reality it's a joke to even think about it.

Who the hell is going to pay as much as a top end Mercedes for something which washes your dishes when there's an immigrant just waiting to get away from selling cherries on the side of the freeway who'll do that job at a fraction of the cost?

I know that example sounds very cold and heartless, but it's a damn fact.

No investors are going to waste their money on something which has no immediate return.
The real hinderence to actually marketing A.I. are that bunch of puritan idealistic eggheads who think contrary to the P.T. Barnum view of the world. Which sadly, is in fact the real view of the world with all of it's ugliness, idiocy and vice.
And it ain't gonna change (if at all) for a long, long, LONG time!
Son_of_Horus 05-21-2004 08:12 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Dork
No where in the show do they give any idication that physical/romantic relationships between humans and androids are frowned upon in Paradigm.


Sure it does, all over the place.
From Roger's "preposterous" reactions towards Beck's insinuations in episode 18, The Greatest Villain to the furtive secrecy of the senator's wife in episode 15, Negotiations with the Dead just to name a couple.
Angels mocking Roger when he hesitated kissing her is just another glaring example.

It isn't something common that's for sure.
So I got no reason to think that the residents of Paradigm ( or outside the domes) are any less prejudiced or bigoted than our society would be.
And I guarantee you, if you think gay weddings are a hot iussue...
Just wait to see the first human who tries to marry an android in our "enlightened" society.
I guarantee you even the "Holy Father" will clutch his chest and fall off his throne when that happy day arrives.

Tongue
Zola 05-22-2004 10:19 AM
I got the answer to the question I asked the special doll site.

I am not going to post it here, what was said was quite specific. However, I will show the answer by PM to any member over the age of 18 on request.
ImSoAwesome 05-22-2004 03:13 PM
I don't think she's fully functional. I mean come on, she was made for Dr Wayneright. He probably has no desire to use her that way. He probably gave her a good voice to sing and stuff but that's about it.

However, the writers of the show will probably never give a definitive answer though since some things are better left to the imagination. That way everyone is happy and speculation can insue.

Anyways, as for my opinion.... Dorothy's made out of metal, weighs 200+ pounds, and looks like a little schoolgirl. Ugh, the more I think about it, the more disappointed I am in Roger for not dumping her for Angel already. Sheesh. C'mon Roger, you can do it!