Contest Deadline Changed, Site Issues

Krang 03-12-2004 11:59 PM
quote:
Originally posted by evanASF27
Maybe making an annonymous poll?
...YEAH! Label th entries (as many as you want to put in the poll) numbers so that the people voting and people in the forums can only vote for the videos themselves.

Actually, that sounds like a great idea! I can edit out all the title cards from the clips that included them and combine all the entries into one clip. Then everyone could vote on their favorite without necessarily knowing whose entry it is. There were only 7 entries, so the clip won't be too big.

quote:
Originally posted by TDF Studios
Also, I was just curious if we could get a list showing all the people who entered....

Sure, but it will probably have to wait until after the voting is done to lessen the chance of people figuring out who made which video.

Also, about the torrent idea, does anyone know of any good trackers that we could use for the contest entries? We can't run a tracker on the site since it would slow down the server, so we will need to use an external one. I will probably make 2 torrents: one for the anonymous clip during the voting process and one for the full entries once the contest is over.
IamRogerSmith 03-13-2004 01:04 AM
Both your ideas have problems.

A. Humor is subjective.

B. Idealistic quality and aesthetics are subjective as well.

Krang and Shredder deciding what is funniest is just as unbalanced as a "popular"-type forum vote. But at least with the forum vote -EVERYONE- gets to see the hard work each member put in into making their creation.

It's like Tony told me, "You don't do it to win. You do it to create." Let people take credit where credit is due.

I liked the original plan of Krang/Shredder deciding finalists and then having a vote. I also like my idea of having a temp forum to show/discuss the videos. ;p

quote:
quote:
Originally posted by evanASF27
Maybe making an annonymous poll?
...YEAH! Label th entries (as many as you want to put in the poll) numbers so that the people voting and people in the forums can only vote for the videos themselves.

Actually, that sounds like a great idea! I can edit out all the title cards from the clips that included them and combine all the entries into one clip. Then everyone could vote on their favorite without necessarily knowing whose entry it is. There were only 7 entries, so the clip won't be too big.

quote:
Originally posted by TDF Studios
Also, I was just curious if we could get a list showing all the people who entered....

Sure, but it will probably have to wait until after the voting is done to lessen the chance of people figuring out who made which video.

Also, about the torrent idea, does anyone know of any good trackers that we could use for the contest entries? We can't run a tracker on the site since it would slow down the server, so we will need to use an external one. I will probably make 2 torrents: one for the anonymous clip during the voting process and one for the full entries once the contest is over.


Um this is all fine and dandy, but I showed my video to at least 15 people already and had it posted on that forum front page link for how long now?

<---meh anonymity est mui ruined.

P.S. Krang - All popular trackers are going to be the same around peak downloading hours. Either find a less known one that works well (anyone?), or include two-three bit's with seperate trackers.
Bentar 03-13-2004 01:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Krang
Also, about the torrent idea, does anyone know of any good trackers that we could use for the contest entries? We can't run a tracker on the site since it would slow down the server, so we will need to use an external one. I will probably make 2 torrents: one for the anonymous clip during the voting process and one for the full entries once the contest is over.


If you can't find a better option, I'll be happy to set up a tracker on my machine, but its on a cablemodem - the upload speed is somewhat limited - approx 250Kbps (40+KBps). It might be more than enough for the task at hand, though. Smile Zola might be a good one to ask...

Zolaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
Smile

One last thought - IamRogerSmith's point about popular voting is quite correct - it is a problem with democracy (and society Tongue ) in general. But that doesn't mean democracy is necessarily a bad thing. I have not submitted an entry, so I'll suggest this as a possible happy medium - I think another option might be to select a committee to judge the entries - maybe the forum admins? Anyone who knows the author of an entry could (should?) disqualify themselves. Although I will be happy with only Krang and Shredder voting - or even full public voting.
Krang 03-13-2004 02:05 AM
quote:
Originally posted by IamRogerSmith
Both your ideas have problems.

A. Humor is subjective.

B. Idealistic quality and aesthetics are subjective as well.

Krang and Shredder deciding what is funniest is just as unbalanced as a "popular"-type forum vote. But at least with the forum vote -EVERYONE- gets to see the hard work each member put in into making their creation.

Hmm, I guess we'll have to wait for more opinions on what to do then. Unfortunately, this will push back my previous estimate of Monday or Tuesday... Because of details like this and the general lack of interest, it is very unlikely that we will hold any more contests, especially ones for prizes.

quote:
Originally posted by Bentar
If you can't find a better option, I'll be happy to set up a tracker on my machine, but its on a cablemodem - the upload speed is somewhat limited - approx 250Kbps (40+KBps). It might be more than enough for the task at hand, though. Smile Zola might be a good one to ask...

Thanks! As long as your computer is on all day and you have a static IP, it will probably work fine, so we'll keep your offer in mind if we can't find any trackers.
IamRogerSmith 03-13-2004 06:17 AM
quote:
Originally posted by KrangHmm, I guess we'll have to wait for more opinions on what to do then. Unfortunately, this will push back my previous estimate of Monday or Tuesday... Because of details like this and the general lack of interest, it is very unlikely that we will hold any more contests, especially ones for prizes.


Well... I think that's because making a movie that's funny is a little bit more difficult than say making a single picture of fanfic that's funny. Toying with video editors (I don't have any sort of normal camera to use to make a live action blooperfest) can be rather tedious and not very exciting. I mean... do you go just stupid-silly funny? within your own taste funny? It's hard to choose one and then put all your effort in if you're a first time video maker (once agasin assuming you didn't have other plausible creative options). Even having done this before, I found it difficult to commit my project in a way I would be sure that people would find it funny at all.

The people who visit your site aren't going to visit purely based on the prizes of contests. Either they visit for the community or are only briefly infatuated with either the anime or prize at hand. Assuming you would want to have a contest where there were pre-selected judges and then all your contestants (one of which could be anonymous, either entries or judges), choosing a more... I don't mean to sound picky, but accessible contest type would ilicit more interest (video editing isn't as friendly to the general public as it is to a more specific crowd as compared to other forms of self expression). Assuming you didn't want to front money for prizes (and I can't believe that someone wouldn't want to cop out the 20$ for a dvd and shipping just to be a nice guy/girl, I've done it for places on more than one occasion) you can always give away things like a free pass to the "Legends" catagory on the forums.

I know it's discouraging not to receive more enteries and feedback when you're excited about a project for something you work so hard on (your site) and love. I would like to thank you for taking the time to run the site and open this contest to the general public. Smile Bravo Krang and Shredder.

Edit: as far as judging systems go: One of the fairest I've seen is where judges are preselected (unknown to everyone else) and then out of all the entries rank their top 5 or top 10 (or even top 3 in this case) as they see fit relating to the catagory and thus the entries are given points based off of the judges scores.
TDF Studios 03-13-2004 10:10 AM
I agreed with what you said but it I think that since we "Made a few mistakes the first time around" We should just get it over with by making a public vote and having everyone's videos put on display in a thread. I mean, their is no perfect way at this point because we didn't really plan ahead to this point in the beginning.

Either case, it will either have to be a judged discission by Krang and Shredder or it will be a public vote.

I'm also checking into possible methods of video hosting. If all else fails, I could consider to host them on my IBM xSeries 225 in the other room. Its on approx. 90% of the day and has a SisFast Cable connection (1 Mbps upload speeds). The problem is, is that I host 3 game servers on it (2xHalo, and 1xBF1942 (Sametime, Yeah)), and by shutting them down for a few days might not be a wise thing to do.

Anyways, I'm consider it as a possibility but in the mean time, I will look for other alternatives. I have my video hosted off of my website for now, so once I get an ok to show it to people, I'll post a link to it. Smile
Zola 03-13-2004 11:56 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Krang
Hmm, I guess we'll have to wait for more opinions on what to do then. Unfortunately, this will push back my previous estimate of Monday or Tuesday... Because of details like this and the general lack of interest, it is very unlikely that we will hold any more contests, especially ones for prizes.


The problem is that the video contest isn't accessible to everyone. Number one, you need clips. Sure, I have all the clips I want, but not everyone does (or thought to ask me).

Number two, you need a decent editing program and you need to know how to use it, which is an investment of time at the least.

The point is that the contest wasn't accessible to many people. I would have enjoyed doing it but didn't have time, and already own the prize anyway.

I would say do something that more people can participate in. For example, choose a movie poster and do a manip contest. Do a Drabble contest for the people who write--a Drabble is a short piece of 100 words or less. My Buffy list does a weekly Drabble challenge and gives the topic, and the number of interpretations on a given topic is absolutely amazing. If this sounds interesting, I'll start a Drabble thread.

For a contest for which you awarded a prize, you could ask for a short story that contained specific elements. You could have an art contest for a specific subject (Dorothy and Roger kissing, for example, or a Big O poster.) It has to be accessible to as many people as possible if you want a good response. Videos are great, but specialized.

You could also give the option for the winner to donate their prize for a raffle--since I own everything released so far, I'd be delighted to donate any prize I won, and anyone could register for the raffle on the forum. I can help you code for the entries, it's pretty straightforward.

quote:
Originally posted by Krang
quote:
Originally posted by Bentar
If you can't find a better option, I'll be happy to set up a tracker on my machine, but its on a cablemodem - the upload speed is somewhat limited - approx 250Kbps (40+KBps). It might be more than enough for the task at hand, though. Smile Zola might be a good one to ask...

Thanks! As long as your computer is on all day and you have a static IP, it will probably work fine, so we'll keep your offer in mind if we can't find any trackers.


The public trackers I used last time were both down last night Frown Bentar, the tracker only handles the routing of the downloads, not the downloads themselves, so it shouldn't be an issue. I'd set it up myself if I had a server.

I'd be glad to seed, though, if Krang got me the file.
evanASF27 03-13-2004 04:19 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Krang
quote:
Originally posted by evanASF27
Maybe making an annonymous poll?
...YEAH! Label th entries (as many as you want to put in the poll) numbers so that the people voting and people in the forums can only vote for the videos themselves.

Actually, that sounds like a great idea! I can edit out all the title cards from the clips that included them and combine all the entries into one clip. Then everyone could vote on their favorite without necessarily knowing whose entry it is. There were only 7 entries, so the clip won't be too big.


ONLY 7 ENTRIES!!!?!?

You've got to be kidding! O.O
HOLY CRAP!


meh Krang and shredder ain't unfair...they don't play "favorites" when it comes to authors Wink So it will be a legit as it can get ^_^

..no more contests?! NO!!!
This was a hard one, to say the least. I had to spend money on a video editing proghram (which most people *coR.SMITHugh* won't spend money on, and also the issue of clips. Not everyone has a DVD translator (or whatever they are called) or a TV Card or all of Megadeus's Spoiler clips (WHICH I STILL HAVE! Big Grin ) BWHAHAHAHAA!!...
*ahem* Maybe a different idea for the next one is in order Wink I don't know what would really work off the top of my head, but certainly a more "available" topic could be used. (like Zola suggested) Smile
Shredder 03-14-2004 01:11 AM
Okay, the reason for the "humor" contest was that at least I thought it would be enjoyable for everyone, considering the high interest in the "Big O Funny Pics" thread, for instance. Yes, it's subjective, but short of having a trivia or other clearly right and wrong answer type contest, any aesthetic contest would be.

Also, the videos never had to be fancy or even involving clips from the show at all. Someone could have even shot a live action video or a series of stills or something in Paint- the whole point was for people to be creative. I can understand Krang's frustration at the response we've gotten on the contest- it is disappointing that so few people even had a response, even from the beginning. Why wasn't all the criticism on the "humor" subject brought up when we first announced it so we could have changed it then?

Also, the original plan on the voting system was for us to narrow it down to five or so (this was assuming we'd get more entries) and then make it a public vote so that the winner would be based off of a bigger amount of feedback than just what we think is funny or well-made. Now, since there were so few, I don't think there's the need to eliminate one or two- we might as well put them all out to be judged.

Lastly, a panel of judges could work, but that setup is usually better when the judges are "experts" in the field (say, a martial arts tournament judged by black belts) rather than a small random group. If there were a next time, I guess this would have to be thought through in more depth- I guess neither of us thought it would be a problem and we didn't get this kind of feedback to my knowledge when the contest was first announced.

PS- Thanks to those that did enter, by the way, I did enjoy watching all of the entries. Smile )
dominusofdeath 03-14-2004 01:15 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Shredder
Someone could have even shot a live action video or a series of stills or something in Paint- the whole point was for people to be creative.


My guinea pigs wouldn't cooperate or else I would have I'll still try to make the video none the less!

Comedy judge
ACT
R.Smith 03-14-2004 01:20 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Shredder
Okay, the reason for the "humor" contest was that at least I thought it would be enjoyable for everyone, considering the high interest in the "Big O Funny Pics" thread, for instance. Yes, it's subjective, but short of having a trivia or other clearly right and wrong answer type contest, any aesthetic contest would be.

Also, the videos never had to be fancy or even involving clips from the show at all. Someone could have even shot a live action video or a series of stills or something in Paint- the whole point was for people to be creative. I can understand Krang's frustration at the response we've gotten on the contest- it is disappointing that so few people even had a response, even from the beginning. Why wasn't all the criticism on the "humor" subject brought up when we first announced it so we could have changed it then?

Lastly, the original plan on the voting system was for us to narrow it down to five or so (this was assuming we'd get more entries) and then make it a public vote so that the winner would be based off of a bigger amount of feedback than just what we think is funny or well-made. Now, since there were so few, I don't think there's the need to eliminate one or two- we might as well put them all out to be judged.

Also, a panel of judges could work, but that setup is usually better when the judges are "experts" in the field (say, a martial arts tournament judged by black belts) rather than a small random group. If there were a next time, I guess this would have to be thought through in more depth- I guess neither of us thought it would be a problem and we didn't get this kind of feedback to my knowledge when the contest was first announced.


I understand the reason for the contest being about humor, it'd made sense before you explained it, and it makes more sense that you've said it now. Also, I think that maybe people thought they had to have clips of the show.

Even though you guys seem pretty set on not having another contest, I'd like to suggest maybe having a contest for a big o music video, then people could use what ever music they like, and have either pictures of big o scenes, or use clips, or whatever they can come up with.

About the judges, I’d be honored to be a judge, since I dropped out of the contest, I’d like to be able to view and judge other's videos Smile
evanASF27 03-14-2004 01:21 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Shredder
Okay, the reason for the "humor" contest was that at least I thought it would be enjoyable for everyone, considering the high interest in the "Big O Funny Pics" thread, for instance. Yes, it's subjective, but short of having a trivia or other clearly right and wrong answer type contest, any aesthetic contest would be.

Also, the videos never had to be fancy or even involving clips from the show at all. Someone could have even shot a live action video or a series of stills or something in Paint- the whole point was for people to be creative. I can understand Krang's frustration at the response we've gotten on the contest- it is disappointing that so few people even had a response, even from the beginning. Why wasn't all the criticism on the "humor" subject brought up when we first announced it so we could have changed it then?

Also, the original plan on the voting system was for us to narrow it down to five or so (this was assuming we'd get more entries) and then make it a public vote so that the winner would be based off of a bigger amount of feedback than just what we think is funny or well-made. Now, since there were so few, I don't think there's the need to eliminate one or two- we might as well put them all out to be judged.

Lastly, a panel of judges could work, but that setup is usually better when the judges are "experts" in the field (say, a martial arts tournament judged by black belts) rather than a small random group. If there were a next time, I guess this would have to be thought through in more depth- I guess neither of us thought it would be a problem and we didn't get this kind of feedback to my knowledge when the contest was first announced.

PS- Thanks to those that did enter, by the way, I did enjoy watching all of the entries. Smile )


Sigh...yes indeed...people should have brought it up in the begining. I myself had no problem with it...but others who did should have done so.

I'd pat you on the back back sadly I don't know where you live Roll Eyes


*edit*
YOU WATCHED THE ENTRIES!! YEAH!!!
Krang 03-14-2004 01:33 AM
quote:
Originally posted by IamRogerSmith
The people who visit your site aren't going to visit purely based on the prizes of contests.

Huh? Getting more visits had nothing to do with the contest. It was supposed to be something fun for regular visitors of the site to enter and have the chance to win a prize. But since now all we're getting is criticism, Shredder and I now realize that it was a bad idea and will not make the mistake of holding a contest again. We're still deciding on what to do with the judging for this contest (or if it should just be cancelled now since nobody is interested in the prizes anyway...), but we'll definitely try to find a way to host the entries so that everyone can see them.

quote:
Originally posted by TDF Studios
I'm also checking into possible methods of video hosting. If all else fails, I could consider to host them on my IBM xSeries 225 in the other room. Its on approx. 90% of the day and has a SisFast Cable connection (1 Mbps upload speeds). The problem is, is that I host 3 game servers on it (2xHalo, and 1xBF1942 (Sametime, Yeah)), and by shutting them down for a few days might not be a wise thing to do.

Could you host a tracker instead? It wouldn't use up nearly as much bandwidth, and you're already using that computer as a server anyway, so it shouldn't be too much trouble to install.

quote:
Originally posted by R.Smith
Even though you guys seem pretty set on not having another contest, I'd like to suggest maybe having a contest for a big o music video, then people could use what ever music they like, and have either pictures of big o scenes, or use clips, or whatever they can come up with.

Thanks for the suggestion, but we've already seen what a disaster video-related contests are...
IamRogerSmith 03-14-2004 04:38 AM
quote:
Huh? Getting more visits had nothing to do with the contest. It was supposed to be something fun for regular visitors of the site to enter and have the chance to win a prize. But since now all we're getting is criticism, Shredder and I now realize that it was a bad idea and will not make the mistake of holding a contest again. We're still deciding on what to do with the judging for this contest (or if it should just be cancelled now since nobody is interested in the prizes anyway...), but we'll definitely try to find a way to host the entries so that everyone can see them.


I was stating the obvious. I'm sure everyone is/was aware of your intentions. I believe you're overreacting. You're obviously unhappy with both the level of participation and the feedback you've received.

The problem was never with the humor, it was the fact that it was a video: bandwidth, file size limitations, knowledge of those entering (the editing, how to format, where to upload etc.), intimidation of medium (daunting task, time consumption, possibilities), etc. Apart from that, it was the uncertainty for how the judging would be done in the end that bothered me personally - Not the humor itself. The judging system originally described works just as fine for me.

The rules made it clear that it could be live action, clip based, or whatever the hell (simple, complicated, whatever) anyone wanted really (I was at first considering doing a flash entry, but based on the time it would take to complete... decided against it). I still want to see the other entries.

It is your site: Lay down the law.
Pygmalion 03-14-2004 05:52 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Krang
But since now all we're getting is criticism, Shredder and I now realize that it was a bad idea and will not make the mistake of holding a contest again. We're still deciding on what to do with the judging for this contest (or if it should just be cancelled now since nobody is interested in the prizes anyway...), but we'll definitely try to find a way to host the entries so that everyone can see them.

Please do not take this as further critisism. You are free to do whatever you feel best with this contest. But I want to make it clear that I am interested in the prizes, and that's why I entered. Otherwise I would probably not have gotten past the "what if" stage.

Pygmalion
Tony Waynewrong 03-14-2004 09:14 AM
Krang and Shredder, don't take our lack of participation from the members of this fora. I didn't participate because of lack of time and artistic abilities. Believe me, I had some ideas for some good videos and I was really enticed by the contest prize, so that wasn't an issue.

As for not having any more contests, that's a pity. I was hoping for a scene manipulation and/or fan-fic writing contest.

Well, I hope you guys feel better.
Zola 03-14-2004 09:48 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Krang
Huh? Getting more visits had nothing to do with the contest. It was supposed to be something fun for regular visitors of the site to enter and have the chance to win a prize. But since now all we're getting is criticism, Shredder and I now realize that it was a bad idea and will not make the mistake of holding a contest again.


I for one am sorry you feel that way, I thought it was a good idea. I'm also sorry you saw what I said as criticism because I was trying to discuss what might have caused the lack of entries, which I still don't believe was lack of interest. I didn't bring it up sooner because I didn't know there was a problem until you said you only had seven entries, and when I thought about why that might have happened, that's what I came up with.

I think most of the people who posted in the thread wanted to help you analyze what went wrong so future contests go better is all. I'm sorry to hear you are considering not having them Frown