No Season 3

From the explanations I've seen online, this show is over, and should be over.


If everything I've read is true, I'd be very dissapointed if they cheapened the series with a 3rd season.


Basically, the resolution in my opinion, is the two dues' merging in the end. That is the metaphor for marriage / procreation / making kids.


That is what creates the new city at the end and resets everything. Cause the city is the new pyschi of a child. Without memories.



We spend our life without memory of why we are on this earth. Then, the solution is, that we have kids. Then those kids follow the same path of trying to discover for themselves their missing "memories" of purpose.


The show came full circle at the end of season 2 from what i see.

You haven't seen the real ending it sounds like. There is another scene which AS has cut out several times while rerunning the show. Do a search on the forum here for the last 30 seconds.

Some people make this, star wars prequel type arguement against season 3.

But if that was the case where were you when an american company went to japan and asked them to make more episodes at least 2 years after the show was over.

That had potential for disaster, but obviously it turned out ok.

The writers knew that they had an option for more episodes, and they left alot of loose change at the end of the show that doesn't really add up.

I completely respet the opinion of those who feel that big O should be left as is, with no sequels. However, i cannot agree. there are too many stories left to tell, and too many loose ends that could be wrapped up, for me not to want a third season.

that being said, i would like to see at least some episodes ( maybe 1 in 3, or 1 in 4) be self contained, rather than everything being main arc.

quote:

Originally posted by clericblackdave From the explanations I've seen online, this show is over, and should be over. If everything I've read is true, I'd be very dissapointed if they cheapened the series with a 3rd season. Basically, the resolution in my opinion, is the two dues' merging in the end. That is the metaphor for marriage / procreation / making kids. That is what creates the new city at the end and resets everything. Cause the city is the new pyschi of a child. Without memories. We spend our life without memory of why we are on this earth. Then, the solution is, that we have kids. Then those kids follow the same path of trying to discover for themselves their missing "memories" of purpose. The show came full circle at the end of season 2 from what i see.

That is because you are a n00b, and you dont pay attention to the REAL series.

-B.c.

The nice thing about it being a television show is that you are free to watch or not.

So I hope they do make a Season Three. I'll watch it and you can change the channel

From what I see, everything fits into their central existence of what is it to be a human being and have to learn why we're here living life.

Here is the basic explanation that I've read:
"According to Yahoo's reference dictionary, a "deus" (as in "mega-deus" - not "deuce" as in CN's English adaptation) is literally,
1) in Greek & Roman drama, a god lowered by stage machinery to resolve a plot or extricate the protagonist from a difficult situation.
2) An unexpected, artificial, or improbable character, device, or event introduced suddenly in a work of fiction or drama to resolve a situation or untangle a plot or...
3) A person or event that provides a sudden and unexpected solution to a difficulty.

So Big-O (along with other "Bigs") symbolizes some kind of necessary resolution to a conflict in Paradigm's plot. (That gives new meaning to the title, "Negotiator" huh?)

"Paradigm City" - can't get much more obvious than that. A "paradigm" is "a set of assumptions, concepts, values, and practices that constitutes a way of viewing reality for the community that shares them.

Over and over again, characters talk about Paradigm City as a "stage" and the characters "playing their parts." Paradigm City is a city of IDEAS... it's a collection of metaphors for how a person or a people views life. The conflicts therein are attempts to resolve difficulties in that view of life or difficult experiences being processed through the paradigmatic ideology. (In other words, the person or people represented by "Angel" are trying to figure life out... and the process is symbolized by people and events in Paradigm City).

So yeah, Angel is apparently the person or community that has this "Paradigm" perspective in her head. She's the one trying to figure it all out. Of course, she plays a role in it, because she's attempting to figure herself out as well as the world around her. All of the conflicts (massive fights with Big-O, etc.) take place IN HER HEAD. Her character in the cartoon is a form of her "ego" or self-consciousness. Lost yet?

So each episode represents Angel encountering some new thought or experience in life and trying to process through the filter of her perspective (paradigm) on how life works. The negotiagor is like her "super-ego"... trying to help all these colliding ideas make sense and form a cohesive system of thought. Sometimes he's successful (they "come to terms") and sometimes there's no resolution ("no side"). Just like real life, right?! Sometimes we can organize the world around us and sleep good at night (we "come to terms") and sometimes we have questions that can't be or aren't answered (we don't land on one side or the other - "no side").

There are CEO types (authoritative drives)... union types (humanistic drives)... robot types (logic - R. Dorothy)... butler types (functional/service faculties)... evil types (the "id" in each of us)... issues of active choice vs. passive yielding (plugs in the back and unions with mega-deus)... paternal struggles (the Rosewaters)... limits (the dome)... demons (the hydra)... and LOTS MORE!!! "



If you have a basic understanding of Sigmund Freud, I think its pretty clear that the show is a pyschology metaphor, and one that is pretty well tied up at the end of season 2.



There doesn't need to be clear-cut resolution for the exact characters because they are elements of one person's psychi, ala the Super Ego, Ego, and ID, etc.

Problem is, though, that you don't realise that the show didn't end with them merging into each other. After that, we are led to believe that everything has been restored to the Episode 1, "Roger the Negotiator" (remember Dorothy spoke those words to Angel in the control room?). As Roger drives along the street, he sees Dorothy and Angel standing together on the street. They are both apparently looking at him and Roger doesn't appear to be late for an appointment to obtain Dorothy.

If that hadn't happened, your analysis would have more credibility.

Because thats the restart of human existence, dont' you see?


We we are born as people, its like we don't have memory of why we exist. We just do exist. Part of our soul, ala Freud's ID, seems to have some memories and knowledge (Ala i want food, i need to take a sh**, and eventually, I want to find a mate)



When the two Deus merge, it represents two people mating. The new universe you see isn't the same as teh first paradigm city, because its a new mind, a child.



Thats the idea behind their being an "orriginal" roger smith that was cloned. Its the idea of Aristotle's original man, ala Adam and Eve, that was cognisant of our purpose in life.


But every time someone has a child, ala clones in the show, the memories are lost to some extent.


Thats the idea behind "People are not ruled by their memories"


Our live our ours to live, despite what the purpose of life would be, despite what our parents and previous iterations of "paradigm city" did



If there was a season 3, it'd just represent a new person living life. The cat is out of the bag. There is not reason for the series to go on.

While that's a nice theory, you really can't insist that it is fact without having heard from the producers themselves that it's what they intended. That's the problem with ALL theories about the show-- it's all well and fine to speculate, but you cannot insist that your idea and yours alone is the Truth with a capital "T".

That's why I'd like another season. Personally, I think all these metaphors and Freudian psychology and Jungian philosophy and whatnot are too complicated to be what's really going on. I think there's a real story there, one that does not consist entirely of symbolism and allegory and metaphor. That works fine for Evangelion, but not for Big O.

Here is my inherent bias.


The show is on adult swim. Its for adults, meaning I think its meant to provoke your thoughts about life.


Thats is why I, as a loser graduate student, got fascinated by the show. It made no sense to me, until now.


The creators may do season 3. But it'll be for the money, and will probably ruin the great work of the first 2 season, because younger fans write in and throw the prospect of more money into the producers faces.



Which is why i hope there is no season 3. In addition, Evangelion is much different, not based on on person's mind. Paradigm City is literally one person's pyschi.

quote:

Originally posted by clericblackdave Paradigm City is literally one person's pyschi.

Prove it.

Your definition of "deus" is not the true definition. It's only one and is taken out of the context of "deus ex machina"--god from the machine.

However, deus in Latin was simply the word for god. It carried no dramatic meanings until the Romans were introduced to Greek drama which used gods as plot resolvers and hence the phrase came to its meaning.

I do very much agree that the ending as it is philosophically deep enough to preclude the possibility of further episodes. However, when Cartoon Network financed the second season, they also included in the contract an option (i.e. requirement) that if CN wanted them, 26 more episodes would have to be produced. The ending to Season 2 was made the way it was as a safe ending which could either be the final note of the work or simply the end of the second movement.

Edit: BTW, you seem unaware that there are numerous other allusions and allegories going on in the show. In fact, the name of the show and the character of Roger all come from computer science. Plus, there are numerous Biblical allusions as well. I suggest you read the forum a bit more before making any pronoucements.

quote:

I do very much agree that the ending as it is philosophically deep enough to preclude the possibility of further episodes. However, when Cartoon Network financed the second season, they also included in the contract an option (i.e. requirement) that if CN wanted them, 26 more episodes would have to be produced

That is true. Which is why I hope there people don't push them to a season 3.



As far as the Deus' go, I think they represent our physically body, our actual ability to act. Which is one reason why often Big O won't often act out and kill another megadeus

Because we are all cast in the name of God, and not guilty for our confusion. Its natural in human existence that human beings have conflict within ourselves (witih paradigm city) and between ourselves (between the megadeus, etc) It doesn't give us the right to destroy another individual because we're all of the same crop of clones and medgadeus (what roger sees a lot when Big O won't cooperate)


The entire idea of each episode coming to terms or ending with "no side" makes perfect sense in this psychological sense. In the most recent episode I watched they fought a primitive megadeus undeground, and Dorothy was torn as to how and why she revived it. When roger defeats it, the show end with "no side" meaning, although he acted, he's not sure if it was the right thing to do.


Which happens a lof in life. We take actions, ala breaking up with a girlfiend or wife, quiting a job, etc. That we might not even come to terms with. But we have to take them anyway.



Anyone see what i'm saying?

quote:

Originally posted by clericblackdave [The entire idea of each episode coming to terms or ending with "no side" makes perfect sense in this psychological sense. In the most recent episode I watched they fought a primitive megadeus undeground, and Dorothy was torn as to how and why she revived it. When roger defeats it, the show end with "no side" meaning, although he acted, he's not sure if it was the right thing to do. Which happens a lof in life. We take actions, ala breaking up with a girlfiend or wife, quiting a job, etc. That we might not even come to terms with. But we have to take them anyway. Anyone see what i'm saying?

Well, actually, that's a common thing in anime. Most anime end with either "We have come to terms," "No side," or "To be continued." I can understand your placing some emphasis on this considering the who negotiating business but actually is commonplace to use these phrases.

I would say that the people who want a 3rd season are perhaps too young, or too American, to understand the beauty of the 2nd season ending.


Its like the way Akira was done. The ending isn't supposed to tie up every loose end perfectly. That is the way American Animation is typically done. Instead, it gives an ending which gives you a general sense of the ending while provoking thoughts about you own life and the meaning of existence.


Maybe I'm just getting too old and thinking about death too much, but I feel like the ending is in line with the tastes of the supposed target audience.

quote:

Originally posted by clericblackdave I would say that the people who want a 3rd season are perhaps too young, or too American, to understand the beauty of the 2nd season ending. Its like the way Akira was done. The ending isn't supposed to tie up every loose end perfectly. That is the way American Animation is typically done. Instead, it gives an ending which gives you a general sense of the ending while provoking thoughts about you own life and the meaning of existence. Maybe I'm just getting too old and thinking about death too much, but I feel like the ending is in line with the tastes of the supposed target audience.

Right now I have three theories that I'm torn between: 1) Paradigm is a virtual world created by someone, 2) Paradigm is the real world in which time and space are nonlinear, 3) Paradigm is actually in the mind of Roger Smith.

If the third one is true, then it's not possible for things to continue w/o being lame. If the first two (or someone else's) are, then a continuation will not be lame ipso facto. If there are no more episodes, then it would seem that 1 or 3 is the truth (or that things just didn't work out on the production side).

Basically, this show will go the way of the Matrix if they do another series.



Also, I think its the 3rd taht is true, except its not in teh mind of roger smith. Its in the mind of "A" human being. Roger Smith represents the Super Ego that protect our fragile mental existence (ala Paradigm City)


Someone like Beck represents our ID. Angels is like our 3rd person view of our mind.


It is so well done, I realy hope they don't cheapen it for the money. If they do, this'll be just like matrix. Give the fans what they want, and the fans will be dissapointed.

Meh, I love all the assertions you've continued to make, despite the fact that you've been told, on several occasions, that the Japanese don't subscribe to Freud.

Additionally, you act as if your theory is THE Big O theory, coming straight from the creators' mouths. Well, no. Your theory is not from their mouths, and therefore doesn't make it any more valid than a theory that Big O represents the fishing industry (ok, extreme example, but you get the point).

Finally, maybe you should start looking at what others have had to say. We've all be around here longer than you have, discussing Big O theory. It's more plausible that our community theory is accurate rather than your solo-constructed theory.

Oh, and, quit ranting about a Big O season 3 would be bad. If you don't want to see it, don't tune in and let us be "drawn into the mistake" so to say.