Evangelion and Big O (EVAs vs. Bigs)

Side Note: They did goof up rather badly on the size of a Big, Big O's anchor chains appeared to be about the size of a small Cessna and the foot can hold the Griffon (which is not a small car from any point of view), if that was true then apparently Paradigm City is actually contained inside of a really big stadium and every one is about a foot tall.

But on an EVA compared to a Big.
It is known that an extremely powerful conventional weapon is able to pierce the AT field, I'd guess that the Chromebuster possibly has sufficient power to achieve this if fired like it was used against the piece of space junk.
But onto Big Venus, she does seem to have several incarnations, what would happen if an EVA with an AT field was put up against the massive Big Venus seen in the Flashbacks.
Really Big, Big Venus
If it actually was that massive at one time an EVA could dance around it all day with it's AT field. One oddly placed footstep could ruin an EVAs day if Venus can actually be that large.

Origanally posted by Gerbera345
But on an EVA compared to a Big.
It is known that an extremely powerful conventional weapon is able to pierce the AT field, I'd guess that the Chromebuster possibly has sufficient power to achieve this if fired like it was used against the piece of space junk.
But onto Big Venus, she does seem to have several incarnations, what would happen if an EVA with an AT field was put up against the massive Big Venus seen in the Flashbacks.


Thats what I said and Relatively Proportional O said thats false!-

quote:

Origanally posted by Relatively Proportional Oquote: If you realy have been paying attention to Evangelion you would know that extremely powerful weapons can also peirce an At-field ie: Big O's Cromebuster cannon (it may or may not be strong enough). *Buzzer sound* Incorrect. Two things can pierce an AT field: 1)Another AT Field, or 2) The Lance of Longinus (Which Big O doesn't have.) An example of this dynamic occured when Evangelion fought the Trident. The Trident unleashed a plethora of artillery on Shinji, and every bullet, missile and burrito bounced off the AT field. The Lance of Longinus may be that "extremely powerful weapon" you are referring to, but that just happens to be the same weapon the soldier Longinus stabbed Jesus with on the crucifix (or at least an updated version of it) so you can't compare it to the chromebuster cannon. You are not going to win this argument by writing "Chromebuster Cannon" a billion times. I can write "Big Mac" a billion times but the only way it's going to get me a real big mac is out of pity.

I knew I was right!

uh if it helps Mazinger Z ( the god father of all super robots) is 18 meters tall.

You could beat an Eva by brow beating it's pilot, seriously all you have to do is jack into Shinji's comm channel and keep telling him he's a loser who would better off dead and he'll eventually melt into a puddle of liquid wimp. Could you do that to Roger? Nuh-uh.

OK, I've seen the first 5 or so episodes of Eva.
It seems like Berzerker mode wouldn't make that much of a difference, as it looks like it speeds the Eva up greatly, without really making it hit harder.

And an AT field doesn't look all that tough. So far I've never seen Eva-01 have any sort of shield like the Angels do. And it looked like the Angel in episode 3 (or was it 4, the one with the laser tentacler) had an AT field that only stopped Eva-01's bullets, and the knife went right through.

That big rifle that Shinji used against that big diamond-ey Angel looks like it would do similar damage, or maybe less damage, than Big O's final stage.

Of course, I've only seen the beginning of the series.

quote:

Originally posted by Big_Chow You could beat an Eva by brow beating it's pilot, seriously all you have to do is jack into Shinji's comm channel and keep telling him he's a loser who would better off dead and he'll eventually melt into a puddle of liquid wimp. Could you do that to Roger? Nuh-uh.

Two words: Dummy Plug. If Gendo thought that Shinji (assuming this is Unit 1 doing the fighting) was going to be unable to complete the mission, he'd simply have control switched from the Pilot to the Dummy Plug and let it do its magic. If it were Rei in Unit 0, she'd just ignore whatever was being said to her and complete her mission, or die trying. Asuka would just fly into a rage, and an angry Unit 2 is almost as bad as an angry Unit 1.




GAT, I'd suggest watching the rest of Eva and (especially) End of Eva as well to see how AT-fields can be utilized in battle.

quote:

Originally posted by GAT-X105 OK, I've seen the first 5 or so episodes of Eva. It seems like Berzerker mode wouldn't make that much of a difference, as it looks like it speeds the Eva up greatly, without really making it hit harder. And an AT field doesn't look all that tough. So far I've never seen Eva-01 have any sort of shield like the Angels do. And it looked like the Angel in episode 3 (or was it 4, the one with the laser tentacler) had an AT field that only stopped Eva-01's bullets, and the knife went right through. That big rifle that Shinji used against that big diamond-ey Angel looks like it would do similar damage, or maybe less damage, than Big O's final stage. Of course, I've only seen the beginning of the series.

Also remember that Eva Unit 01's AT field is nullifying the AT field of the Angel (hence why only Evas are effective fighters against the Angels), which is why those weapons are able to penetrate at that point...if we assumed that the Eva's AT Field was disabled, not only would those weapons have no effect...well, the other half of my sentance is a spoiler, but you find out about that near the end of the series and in End of Evangelion.

quote:

Originally posted by The Fallen Phoenix Also remember that Eva Unit 01's AT field is nullifying the AT field of the Angel (hence why only Evas are effective fighters against the Angels), which is why those weapons are able to penetrate at that point...if we assumed that the Eva's AT Field was disabled, not only would those weapons have no effect...well, the other half of my sentance is a spoiler, but you find out about that near the end of the series and in End of Evangelion.

AT field is effectively a soul, which Eva's have since they are effectively living creatures.

However, this may not be too big of an advantage though, since the Bigs have also been shown to be 'alive.' Big O acts on his own a few times in the series, as has Big Duo. (Big Fau however, is probably 'dead' in this respect. Sorry Fau fans.)

If the Bigs are to be considered alive, then they effectively have an AT field. It evidently can't stop bullets or anything fancy, but the fact that they even have one probably means that they could harm an Eva.

Piston punch to the crotch, game over, insert another quarter Eva.

-----

Also, slightly off topic, but I never saw the Jet Alone episodes. Did that thing have an AT field?

quote:

Originally posted by Name Of God Also, slightly off topic, but I never saw the Jet Alone episodes. Did that thing have an AT field?

No. It couldn't have.

Another thing about AT fields, the soul in the EVA has to be the soul of the pilot, I believe. According to Evaotaku.com:

• The AT Field is "the light of the soul", the "barrier of the heart".
• Ergo, no soul/heart = no AT Field.
• The dummy system has no soul - only brain patterns.
• Ergo, the dummy system alone is unable to manifest an AT Field.
• The dummy plug system is designed to operate the Evas without the pilots. (What idiot would create an auto-pilot system that would not be able to use the Eva's greatest weapon/defense?)
• The MP Evas + dummy plugs generate AT Fields in EoE.
• Ergo, the [MP Eva + dummy plug] combination must have a soul.
• If the dummy plugs have no soul, then the MP Evas must have souls.
• Ergo, the MP Evas, and by extension the NERV Evas, which also have (had) dummy plug systems, all have souls.

One word, no. Only certain Evas made by nerv have souls, some do not.

This thread is pretty old but since I recently finished viewing nge I thought I would post my opinion.

It would seem that after reading through the pages the main argument for why an eva would win is because its at field is unable to be pierced by big o. This is quite true. Having said that though it doesn't mean that big o is the immediate loser. He is more like an underdog. If we break it into categories:

Strength: Although both the evas and big o are strong I believe big o is stronger in melee and in ranged combat. however strength won't do much if it is unable to hit the target.

Dexterity: This definitely goes to the evas. No way big o could out maneuver an eva. Thus even without an at field if an eva only evaded and attacked very sparingly it would be hard for big o to hit it.

Constitution: They both seem to be able to take the same amount of physical damage before breaking in essence they are equal.

So far things are definitely looking better for an eva. But then again battles aren't base only on the mech. Its based on the pilot. This is where big o takes the upper hand since roger is much better in terms of charisma intelligence and wisdom. So where does that leave us then? the at field. no matter how great roger is he won't be able to break through it with big o. At least by reading this thread thats what you would think. Even though big o is the underdog he is still powerful enough to do a multitude of damage to the surrounding area.

When you take into consideration that an eva is so much more dexterous than big o the first thing to do in combat would be to damage the surroundings and the grounding thus lowering dexterity (even though this will also lower big o's dexterity). So now lets say that an eva and big o are basically stuck in an arena and the only attacks are melee attacks. Well the eva will still have its at field. Melee attacks are useless. However during the course of nge how many times did an eva or an angel attack directly out of the at shield? For example if an eva sticks out its arm to attack where is the at field in respect to the arm? if the arm extends out of the at shield its pretty simple to see where im going with this. if the at field extends with the arm then there is another problem for big o and roger to worry about since melee won't work either.

If the at field does not extend the length of the arm--->
its not improbable for big o to break off one of the arms and, since theoretically the arm should still be somewhat alive, attack the eva with it using the arms own at field to disrupt the eva's shield long enough for one of big o's multitude of attacks. If the attacks go through I would say there not be enough time for a counter attack and the eva and pilot are demolished in one sweep and the battle goes to roger. However if you don't agree please continue reading below.

If the at field extends the length of the arm--->
So since there is no way to dodge then roger loses this round and must back out of the messed up landscape and consider new tactics. if he can make it out in time.

If roger cannot make it out of melee reach in time--->
Eva and shinji win battle

If roger can make it out of melee reach in time--->
Im sure one main tactic in any battle is to attack the weakness of your opponent. In this case the eva's only weakness is its pilot (yes I know about that other stuff but for now lets just assume for the purpose of this battle shinji is the only one who can pilot eva 01). Since roger is a negotiator its not out of the realm of thought that he can persuade shinji to give up the fight and export the cockpit. Now im sure most of you are thinking "so what?" if shinji gives up then the eva still has the berserk mode. However, this bersek mode doesn't seem to activate unless impending danger is nearby. If shinji or more importantly the eva is not in harms way why would this mode be activated?

If Roger is able to get shinji to give up the fight--->
Assuming that a "win" is not only constituted by the destruction of your opponent without a pilot the battle goes to roger and big o.

If Roger is unable to get shinji to give up and exit from the eva--->
Lets suppose since big o and the eva were already fighting that shinji refuses to negotiate and give up. From now on instead of dodging shinji takes the offensive (since he is resolved on fighting then he will take the offensive). There isn't any way for big o to dodge the attacks in this environment nor is there a way to run since an eva is faster. Roger's best bet is a distraction technique in which you fire one way to draw attention and move another way. At least with this technique he will be able to move to a different environment.

If Roger is unable to psyche shinji out and maneuver away--->
The eva will win.

If Roger is able to psyche shinji out and maneuver away--->
The battle continues with a new environment: Eva has the upper hand and big o is the underdog.

Of course these are just theoretic scenarios but as you can see the battle could go either way even if big o is an underdog. More importantly is the way the mechs are used, how close the pilot pays attention to detail, and how closely the pilot pays attention to his surroundings.

On a final note I would like to think that an at field is not un-destroyable. If it is an extension of the soul then an extremely long battle (supposing big o could survive for so long) would theoretically weaken it since you would think that after a certain period of prolonged anger and fighting a soul would get weakened (unless its an evil soul then I suppose the shield would get stronger .)
Also if roger wanted to win quickly all he would have to do is cut the power and present no danger. If roger cuts the power then backs away and stays defensive with no counter attacking I don't see why an eva would continue the fight even if it didn't need a power source. If there were no will to fight then why would the eva waste time? since big o can still function after five minutes then roger and big o would win.

Eva's would win, but only if there were at least 2 of them, one on one, an eva would lose, it would be close but if big O got a hit in, it would probbably be over...

I'm finding it hard to believe that an Evangelion is more massive than a Big.

But this is irrelevant. The Evangelion's AT field would need to be punctured.

Without the AT field, I'd have to go with the Big O. Big O is clearly able to defeat a lager opponent (It was, after all, able to hold Behemoth above its head, and still take the impact of the falling girders, with the added weight of the Behemoth).

There's a good chance that the Final Stage would be able to penetrate the AT Field and destroy the Eva, but its not likely to hit, seeing as it would be hard to aim.


AT Fields seem to be extendable barriers that the pilots choose to retract at will. I believe that a Big would be able to grapple with an Eva (Jet Alone was being blocked by Eva 01, and it was giving 01 a damn hard time too! Where is your AT Field now?) and possibly overpower it that way, causing the pilot a great deal of pain. Since Evas are organic, they're not going to be as powerful as a mechanical aperture.


However, if you go by the rules of Evangelion, you have to admit that every living thing generates such an AT Field. If you classify the Big O as living, perchance it would have one as well.

On a slightly different note:

Who do you guys think would win, a defending army of EVA's in Tokyo-3 or an invading army of Megadei?

I think that Tokyo-3 would be able to hold out with the large number of defense buildings that were built. Not to mention they own N2 mines.

I think the bigs would win because if there were all of them (I.E big fau, big O, big Duo, leviathan etc.) and it depends how big the army was.

Just assume that both the EVAs and Bigs are close in number and that the Bigs are only of the Big O and Big Duo type.

In that case, the Bigs might have the advantage from the air.

Yup, defintely Bigs will win, especially if schwarzwald and Roger were the piots of one of them...

quote:

Originally posted by Jstar136 On a slightly different note: Who do you guys think would win, a defending army of EVA's in Tokyo-3 or an invading army of Megadei? I think that Tokyo-3 would be able to hold out with the large number of defense buildings that were built. Not to mention they own N2 mines.

Thats a good question but im not sure if i understand quite what you mean.

If the Megadei are invading to destroy Tokyo-3 then especially with the power of the bigs it wouldn't be hard to destroy all the buildings whether or not they are underground. Lets not forget the armor the bigs have can withstand just about anything except another big (based on the fact that tank shells shot at minimum distance did not damage the bigs) or the such though it is unclear just how powerful an n2 mine is and or whether or not it is able to hurt a big. Assuming that an n2 mine could hurt bigs then it would be more troublesome however the bigs do have ranged attacks so destroying the n2 mines before they even reach the invading army is a possibility. This is of course assuming the the evas could be distracted.

However if they are attacking to destroy the eva army then it could get more tricky.

This is getting a bit crazier than I had expected.

Let's also assume that each EVA has a pilot who can generate an AT field that's capable of blocking almost all of the Bigs' attacks except for maybe the Final Stage. The defense structures could be used as either refueling stations or distractions. N2 mines, if shot down, could still prove harmful if their blast radius was close enough to the ground.

And just for kicks, lets add the heroes Shinji, Rei, Asuka, Roger, Schwarzwald and Alan as CO's.

Oh, another scenario would be that the Angels fight alongside the EVAs and Leviathans fight alongside the Bigs.

No, Big Venus doesn't come into play. NO MULLIGANS!

lets see

If were talking about a 3 vs 3 showdown between evas piloted by shinji rei and asuka and bigs piloted by roger schwarzwald and alan then i would have to say that the evas have the upper hand. Even with duo in the air it won't do much against an at field although it would do alot of damage against smaller human made planes and the such thus nullifying n2 mines. Counter offense from tokyo-3 would be to launch missiles however it does not seem as though they would have much affect against a big and especially one that is flying. Now that the city defenses are out when it comes right down to it a 3 vs 3 leaves the bigs underhanded though its not impossible for the bigs to win. From the air the duo could take out any kind of energy station for fueling or refueling (with energy of course). Without this the evas will go down in 5 min. Assuming that the bigs could survive for 5 min that leaves it at 3 bigs vs 1 eva taking into effect the beserk mode that eva 01 will go into when under this kind of attack. From that point on it could still even go either way although it would be with the bigs with the upper hand.

Other scenario: too many possibilities