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Originally posted by Relatively Proportional O
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Personally, I don't think the other megadeuses would triumph over an Eva due to the reasons you've mentioned. But your attempts to invalidate the possiblity of a victory by Big Venus are flawed in their reasoning.
EDIT: Correction - The thread was pitting Bigs and Eva's against each other, and Big Venus is a Big, so she's a valid entry. |
While I understand that, I was trying to validate the weapon for this argument by putting it on the same level as a popular theory. As it is, Big Venus' abilities are still an unknown, so to use them as a factor against Eva is an even bigger presumption than my own.
Let's say that you magically walk into Paradigm City somehow, and Big Venus touches you. Are you going to be reset back to the beginning? No, because you weren't there in the beginning, you just walked in at halftime. Since you came in from another universe and Big Venus shows no signs of being transdimensional but rather a puppetmaster of her own dimension, "reset" should have no effect on you. It simply won't work. At the most, the only thing Big Venus will do is send you back to your own dimension. (Of course, if it fires its lasers at you or steps on you, that's a different story, but we're focusing primarily on the "reset" element here.) Evangelion is from another dimension, therefore he is exempt from that whole ordeal. Furthermore, if Big O is a "tool of God" then by that logic Evangelion should be able to control him, because Evangelion is God (Although, I'm beginning to lean more and more towards calling it a "Goddess" for obvious reasons.) But we're not going so literally with metaphors in this situation. |
I think this is the main point of contention between our two views. You believe that Big Venus' reset ability is limited to her own domain, while I believe or at least entertain the possibility that it can be used anywhere.
However, if we for the sake of arguement go with your theory that Big Venus' power is limited to the domain of Paradigm City, that in no any way makes Evangelion immune simpy because it's from elsewhere, any more than being a visitor from China would allow me to flout the laws of England with impunity while visiting.
Evangelion would still be subject to the same environmental conditions and laws of reality as anything else, and if those laws allow for Big Venus to manipulate reality, then Big Venus can manipulate the reality of Evangelion.
Also, we can't assume that Big Venus is limited to resetting things to only one point. We can't even be sure what we see is the actual beginning. Also, even if it was, somethings were changed such as Dorothy and Angel standing next to each other. So even if the reset was limited in the manner you possess, it still doesn't prevent Big Venus from changing the status of Evangelion via a reset.
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I present that thesis in regards to the possibility that a theory I don't necessarily agree with (that being that Angel is NOT making everything in Big O short of the ending happen) turns out to be true. And in truth, that scenario is the only way that Evangelion could fight Big O. If it all happened in Angel's imagination, Angel would have to will Evangelion into her mind, and since she'd be writing the story as she went along, she could very easily make Big O beat Evangelion. It would be a grossly inaccurate version of Evangelion for that to happen (not unlike Mothra changing size between her own movie and Godzilla vs Mothra) but since it is her imagination, she could do whatever she wanted in it. She could make the AD police rise up out of the ground and destroy Big O with Navajo Beef Stew if it's happening in her head. |
This would be hillarious to see. I insist you write this scene in the fanfic section.
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Obviously the terms of the fight between Big Venus and Evangelion change depending on your theory of Big O. Your terms are slightly different from mine, so you have a different outlook on Big Venus. I contend that Big Venus can only do tricks on her own turf, which would mean the most she'd be able to do is expel Eva from Paradigm which isn't a victory at all.
As a matter of fact, that brings in another factor in regards to a Big Venus/Evangelion fight. Suppose that Big Venus' reset function DID work on Evangelion (which is still a logical contradiction if we go by what I said above.) Evangelion gets sent back to Episode 1 of Neon Genesis Evangelion. Does that even count as a victory? If I challenge you to a duel and you come to Illinois to fight me, and my buddies jump you, throw you in a truck, and drive you back to where you started, did I win the duel? |
I think that this analogy is flawed, because the buddies are an external element not inherent to you. The ability to Reset, on the other hand, is an inherent part of Big Venus, and thus it's as fair for it to be used as it would be for an Eva to use an AT Field. A more accurate interpetation of your analogy would be if I were to challenge you to a fight and you happened to have a super power that allowed you to magically teleport me back to Alabama. It's one of you abilities, so it's a valid move for you.
As to whether it's a victory or not, that depends on what one defines as victory. For me, I'd say the neturalization of the opponent's ability to control the battlefield counts as a victory in my book. If I went to Cuba and magically made it's entire military disappeared, it wouldn't matter if I had disintegrated them or simply teleported them all to Norway. They still would have been removed from consideration and rendered unable to oppose me. Either way, I would have won.
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If Big Venus was stripped of her "reset" function (which is probably about as easy as removing Evangelion's AT field) there's still no solid proof that states Big Venus would win. The only thing we've seen her do is shoot a few lasers in a flashback, and those lasers didn't look all that impressive, nor can we be sure that they weren't just an extension of her reset function. If anything, it'd turn out the same way as Big O versus Eva Unit 1. |
I don't think Big Venus can win without her "Reset" ability either. But since it's an inherent part of her I think that its use is as fair as allowing an Eva to use an AT Field.
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Of course, if you can refute me (and I'd be delighted if you found a way to) go right ahead. I'm relatively open-minded to everything except for totalitarianism and Nintendo. |
I don't think either of us we'll be able to concretely refute the other. The end of The Show Must Go On is ambiguous enough that multiple interpetations of what happened and what Big Venus is actually capable of are possible. I have one interpetation, and you have another, and I don't think there's a way one can determine that one's undeniably more valid than the other.
I guess this is a situation where we just have to agree to differ and accept Roger's words that "There can be more than one truth."