Discuss the Current Episode

A Clockwork Tomato 12-25-2003 01:24 PM
No one else seems to have started a re-repeat thread. What are you guys, busy on Xmas Eve or something?

ACT 1 --

Before Roger Smith knew Dorothy was an android, he could NOT keep his eyes off her. He and Dorothy spent Soldano's entire initial rant with their gazes locked on one another.

Soldano is rather incoherent, isn't he? One wonders if he's having a nervous breakdown. He sure acts like it. Wild, staring eyes, gasping breath -- you wouldn't be surprised if he fell down with a heart attack at any moment.

Beck is driving cars in his signature color. Stupid and unprofessional.

Does ANYBODY give Dorothy a ride home? Or do they all drive off and leave her there?

Dastun and Roger get along almost as poorly as Roger and Angel in later episodes. For a top negotiator, Roger is sure abrasive!

Roger the Louse -- not only does he let luscious young women enter the house without an appointment, they are shown up to the penthouse floor, which is where his bedroom is. The dining room, his office, and the rooms in which he receives clients are all on other floors. Also, Roger makes a point of revealing that the only reason Dorothy was allowed in was that she was, in Norman's opinion, adequately youthful and curvaceous. The ladies don't slap him anywhere NEAR enough in the show.

Roger the Louse 2 -- as soon as Roger realizes that it's the luscious android, he loosens his tie, breaks eye contact, and telegraphs in every way that she's not babulous after all. Also, he treats her with more disrespect than he would an ordinary client. Are you embarrassed that you were strongly attracted to an android, Mr. Louse? I think you were! Busted!

Soldano's hangar -- There's blood on the outside of the glass but not inside the room. Continuity error, I fear, unless Beck fired an unnamed victim from an enormous cannon and the impact with Soldano caused his injuries. If so, I hope the victim was a mime.

Nice turn of speed, Dorothy -- nice gams, too!

"You're a louse, Roger Smith." I fell in love with Dorothy when I heard her say it, the first time I saw this episode.

Dorothy 1 -- Not very impressive as a combat machine, but as a salvage/extraction machine she's a nice piece of work. Was she built to salvage stuff from the harbor and the underground, for example? That's the sort of thing that would attract funding. Beck's daylight robbery seems more like an improvisation using a Megadeus he didn't have to pay for.

Dorothy 1 gloms onto R. Dorothy's mind right away, before Big O shows up. Is she in the habit of doing this? We know nothing about Dorothy's earlier life. Was she necessary to getting Dorothy 1 running the first place? Is Dorothy 1 grabbing Dorothy's mind to help fight off Beck's remote-piloting hacks? Dunno. But R. Dorothy is so completely taken over that she mimics Dorothy 1's movements -- something we'll never see again.

Big O -- he sure causes a lot of collateral damage this time. He wrecked a chunk of one skyscraper when he showed up, and another one tilted on its foundation when he slammed Dorothy 1 into it. As Leela explained in Futurama, superheroes cause a lot of collateral damage, and need a secret identity to avoid being sued!
Zopwx2 12-25-2003 02:00 PM
I'm tempted to think there wasn't a whole lot going on it episode one except a batman like character fighting in a kickass robot. Then after a couple episodes they decided to sit down and seriously decide what direction the show was going to go.
angelcakes 12-25-2003 04:08 PM
Was I the only one who literally screamed at the T.V when I saw Dorothy on the hourglass. AS has messed up the whole ending sequence. Rogers supposed to be alone on the hourglass for one episode at least.

And I agree ACT, 'You're a louse Roger Smith," was one of the reasons I began to like Dorothy.

quote:
Origially posted by A. Clockwork Tomato
Does ANYBODY give Dorothy a ride home? Or do they all drive off and leave her there?


Never really thought about that, but I suppose they leave her there and expect her to fend for herself. After all androids are supposed to be for the most part not relient on anyone else. They probably figured she could fend for herself.
X Prime 12-25-2003 04:10 PM
I wonder if Dorothy can outrun a car...
evanASF27 12-25-2003 04:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato
Soldano's hangar -- There's blood on the outside of the glass but not inside the room. Continuity error, I fear, unless Beck fired an unnamed victim from an enormous cannon and the impact with Soldano caused his injuries. If so, I hope the victim was a mime.


"THey had a butcher, a baker, and a candlesmith maker.........and a mime.
Yacko- HEY! No town is perfect Big Grin "


"Everyone got what they wanted......except for the mime. *ANVIL*

Yacko- aahhh...I don't know about you, but that was my wish."



hehee...I watch to many cartoons Tongue
KILL THE MIME!! @__@
YZEtc 12-25-2003 09:06 PM
So, I've seen this episode (and taped it, as well as all of the others) when it aired in early November, reviewed it numerous times, and watched the repeat yet again early this morning.
You'd think that I'd have tired of it by now, but that is not the case.
If anything, I have a stronger appreciation for it; it is simply a great episode, and a wonderful way to introduce us viewers to the ravenous ways of that Paradigm Negotiator who lives in a Bank, his equally black Megadeus, his steady and steadfast Butler, and that lovely, sophisticated, enigmatic lady who comes into his life and immediately starts imbedding herself into the receptive tissues of his mind like nobody else can...as much as he would like to deny it.

I'm in full agreement:
There's no doubting the importance of the moment when Roger first gets a look at Dorothy unblindfolded:
"Aaaahhh...", he says as his eyebrows shoot up.
She - in turn - doesn't seem to mind standing next to him one bit as he works his remote controller for the ransom briefcase.

So, I guess that it is no surprise whatsoever that she later shows-up at The Mansion, and is easily able to meet the criteria of Roger's Sacred Rule Of The Bank.
This wins her an all-expenses-paid trip inside where she waits for him to come home while standing next to the piano
spoiler (highlight to read):
that will eventually become such an important point in their oft-tumultuous relationship
.
After she soundly trounces his ego by reminding him that he could not tell she was an android until the fact was pointed out to him (which also does an excellent job of putting him on the defensive - both then and later), she drops the bomb that will seemingly effect them for the rest of their lives.
What she wanted protection from I am still not sure, but the way she insisted upon it in her straight-forward way did the trick:
She's in his life, now - like it or not.

You can tell by the way Dastun pokes at Roger's chest that their relationship is decidedly strained.
Exactly what happened between the two I would love to know, and it is obvious from the tone that Roger uses to call his butler after the Major departs that it is no small point:
"Nooooor-maaaaaaan!"

They're off and running:
The way in which Dorothy crowns Roger with his new nickname couldn't have been done any better.
The way she looks at him while saying it was perfect:
"You're a louse, Roger Smith."
Translation:
"Is this any way to treat a lady, you a****le?"
Dorothy - when it comes to Roger - I'm afraid it is, and I have a sneaking suspicion that for as long as he feels the sting of what happened at Saldano's factory, it won't be the last time.

The appearance of Big O introduced us to several things:
1) He has no problem whatsoever in emerging from The Underground amid genuinely pristine and expensive-looking buildings - much to the displeasure of Major Dastun - and slicing one open in the process is simply none of his concern.
Do you want me to protect the city at a moment's notice, or do you want me to spend all night looking for a safe place to park?
Thought so.

2) As evident by the the yelling, cheering, raised fists, and gestures like "The Hump", the citizens of Paradigm know him well and are pulling for him all the way, although Dastun has mixed feelings for the Black Megadeus - looking like he may very well swallow his hand at any moment.

3) The angle from which we see Big O take his first steps is pure magic, pulling out of the skyscraper that he had been so comfortably nestled in, turning left in front of us as he towers overhead, and majestically stomping off toward Dorothy 1 - making those tell-tale sounds that are his trademark.
We see the length of his strides and the sheer forcefulness of his gait, and when he lays one of those massive hands onto Dorothy 1, even the reluctant Dastun has to pump his fist in the air.
Paradigm's guardian Megadeus.
Pleased to meet you.

It doesn't take long at all for Dorothy's apparent attraction to those big, bad Megadeuses to cause her trouble, running against the fleeing crowd and standing at the feet of her "big sister" - arms flailing and eyes wide, oblivious to all that is happening around her.
It almost seems like an addiction.
A powerful addiction.
But - like most addictions - the consequences of your attraction may not be evident until something bad happens - like a piston-punched Megadeus that just had it's lights knocked out falling toward you.
Bentar 12-26-2003 01:14 AM
quote:
Originally posted by angelcakes
Was I the only one who literally screamed at the T.V when I saw Dorothy on the hourglass. AS has messed up the whole ending sequence. Rogers supposed to be alone on the hourglass for one episode at least.


More than that angelcakes - what you said got me thinking about them redoing the credits, so tonight (episode two) I freeze framed the tv at the ENGLISH VOICE TALENT credits:
David Lucas
Lia Sargent
Richard Barnes
James Lyon
Robert Axelrod
Chuck Forley
Ethan Murray
Elliott Reynolds

Now the ENGLISH VOICE TALENT credits from the same episode on DVD:
David Lucas
James Lyon
Ethan Murray
Lia Sargent
Chuck Farley
Jane Alan
Georgette Rose
Elliott Reynolds
Guy Pinkham
Richard Barnes
Richard Plantagenet
Robert Wicks
Ray Michaels
Simon Isaacson
Meson LaPayote
Joe Romersa

Notice a difference?
Sigh. I Love the Cartoon Network folk. They introduced me to Big O. They gave us Season 2. But the Stripes Fiasco, Missing 'Show Must Go On' ending, Dorothy on the hourglass on Ep 1, and now simply the wrong credits. Come on guys, you're better than this!

Here's hoping The Cartoon Network people have a great Christmas break, and return to work well-rested Smile
Little Fau 12-26-2003 02:44 AM
quote:
3) The angle from which we see Big O take his first steps is pure magic, pulling out of the skyscraper that he had been so comfortably nestled in, turning left in front of us as he towers overhead, and majestically stomping off toward Dorothy 1 - making those tell-tale sounds that are his trademark.
We see the length of his strides and the sheer forcefulness of his gait, and when he lays one of those massive hands onto Dorothy 1, even the reluctant Dastun has to pump his fist in the air.
Paradigm's guardian Megadeus.
Pleased to meet you.


Don't forget that fantastically triumphant music -- "Sure Promise" is easily one of the best battle themes I've ever heard, even if it doesn't technically do much different from your usual James Horner/John Williams fare. Whenever I imagine a Megadeus fight in my head, that's the music I hear, and I heard it here first. Especially, the timing of the final cue with Big O's final blow was the icing on the cake. (If you have the DVD, check it out -- they edit the theme to extend it, bringing it up to roughly 3:20 in order to achieve that critical timing. Bravo.)
Shredder 12-26-2003 02:51 AM
Thanks for starting the thread, A Clockwork Tomato- I was meaning to start one Wednesday, but forgot to get around to it with Christmas Eve and all. Anyway, for now this will be the thread for the entire third run of the series, so keep posting your thoughts here!

PS- And it's about time I got 200 posts! Tongue
Zopwx2 12-26-2003 02:59 AM
SEason 2 is very good.

BUT I just love season 1. Every scene is just great, the animtion is by far better. you have more fun JUST watching season 1. PLus you have no idea what the mystery is so its lots of fun.
YZEtc 12-26-2003 08:47 AM
quote:
From Little Fau:
Don't forget that fantastically triumphant music -- "Sure Promise" is easily one of the best battle themes I've ever heard, even if it doesn't technically do much different from your usual James Horner/John Williams fare. Whenever I imagine a Megadeus fight in my head, that's the music I hear, and I heard it here first. Especially, the timing of the final cue with Big O's final blow was the icing on the cake. (If you have the DVD, check it out -- they edit the theme to extend it, bringing it up to roughly 3:20 in order to achieve that critical timing. Bravo.)


Yes, the music in that scene is fitting and adds to the tension.
I like it.
Also, I thought that I caught the edit of Sure Promise on this televised version, as well; there's a noticable break in the music shortly before Roger winds Big O up for the deciding punch into Dorothy 1's back side.

quote:
From Bentar:
Notice a difference?


Yes. The credits have been messed-up for about half of the repeats which just ended.
A Clockwork Tomato 12-26-2003 09:05 AM
I just love this episode.

I think Roger has already fallen for Dorothy. In fact, I'm sure he has. Only a possessive boyfriend would not only growl at Dorothy the way he did on the steps to the Nightengale, but do so without bothering to wait to be introduced to Wayneright!

We later see the bouncer slumped to the floor. Apparently Roger was willing to kosh him just to get a chance to talk to Dorothy. Does he have it bad, or what?

Dorothy is not cooperating. She doesn't say a word to him.

When she's with her father, she has this girlish act(?) she puts on, but when he's not in sight, she acts the way she does in the rest of the series. When Roger confronts her on the steps of Nightengale, she hides behind Wayneright. When Roger confronts her a few minutes later backstage, Wayneright is out of sight, and she gazes calmly at him while he tries to argue with her. The two reactions aren't consistent. She's putting on an act for Wayneright.

Beck is SUCH a jerk! He doesn't really want to kill Wayneright, but his henchman loses his head at the approach of angry Dorothy, and shoots. Beck pretends to be happy about this because he likes to look cool. Moron. Nice trick with the cattle prod, though. Beck sure knows his technology.

All Beck wants to do is get the printing plates and high-tail it out of there before Big O shows up; a classic snatch-and-grab job on a grand scale. Beck has Dorothy wired up in minutes, apparently; Roger is still at the Nightengale when the second attempt starts.

One gets the feeling that Big O's response time has gotten shorter recently, and no one has adjusted to it yet. Maybe the Prairie Dog system is new.

Roger sure goes berserk when he sees Dorothy attached to Dorothy 1!

I believe that Dorothy falls in love with him when he rescues her and says, "You're Dorothy Wayneright! Just be who you are!" For all his later sniping at her, he really believes she's a person in her own right, not just a ghost of the human Dorothy or a mechanical fake.

Beck, you have to stop using yellow vehicles!

The scene on the penthouse roof is a classic. Roger is surprised to see Dorothy there, but doesn't put up a real fight at all. He expresses surprise but makes no objections. And if I hadn't fallen in love with her when she said, "You're a louse, Roger Smith," I would have over, "Your sense of fashion, Roger, really reeks."

Woo-hoo! ELECTRIC CITY tonight! We get to meet an Angel!
dr_malaki 12-26-2003 11:00 AM
quote:
[i]

Does ANYBODY give Dorothy a ride home? Or do they all drive off and leave her there?


Good question.

Another thing I wondered about was Waynewright's final arrangements. Who arranged 'em? Dorothy? She seemed to acknowledge Waynewright as her "father," though she had repudiated Soldano as such when he claimed to be.

Was she even legally recognized as his next-of-kin? Did she even attend his funeral, if there was one? Or did all this happen while she was still Beck's prisoner/tool?

It was not clear whether she went into any extended period of mourning after being rescued, though she *was* already dressed in black when she showed up at Roger's place again. And she didn't seem very jolly. She said she had nowhere else to go, so I take it that Waynewright didn't leave much of anything to her -- certainly not a house, and probably not even enough money to rent her own apartment. Maybe nothing at all, or some debts. (Can androids be held responsible for their creator's/owner's debts?) I take it that androids have some need for shelter from the elements, and have other routine needs such as high-grade, expensive oil. Most of them seem to wear clothing most of the time (Dorothy certainly does), and that costs something.

This was in contrast to the situation with Instro, who apparently did (legally?) inherit some property from his creator/"father," Amadeus, and made some effort to keep Amadeus' memory alive. We see old photos of him, but Dorothy keeps no photos or other mementos that I know of, and seems to be without sentimentality until she adopts the stray Pero.

I suppose the viewer is meant to understand that a good deal occurs off-screen, and I guess someone could have given Dorothy a lift home (assuming it was at all clear where her home was), and that there was plenty of time elapsing off-screen for Waynewright's funeral, burial, etc., to take place before Dorothy turned up as a member of the domestic staff at the mansion.

Doc
Mr. Peabody 12-26-2003 12:03 PM
quote:
Originally posted by dr_malaki

Good question.

Another thing I wondered about was Waynewright's final arrangements. Who arranged 'em? Dorothy? She seemed to acknowledge Waynewright as her "father," though she had repudiated Soldano as such when he claimed to be.

Was she even legally recognized as his next-of-kin? Did she even attend his funeral, if there was one? Or did all this happen while she was still Beck's prisoner/tool?

It was not clear whether she went into any extended period of mourning after being rescued, though she *was* already dressed in black when she showed up at Roger's place again. And she didn't seem very jolly. She said she had nowhere else to go, so I take it that Waynewright didn't leave much of anything to her -- certainly not a house, and probably not even enough money to rent her own apartment. Maybe nothing at all, or some debts. (Can androids be held responsible for their creator's/owner's debts?) I take it that androids have some need for shelter from the elements, and have other routine needs such as high-grade, expensive oil. Most of them seem to wear clothing most of the time (Dorothy certainly does), and that costs something.

Doc


Well, Doc. Waynewright was a eccentric millionaire/scientist. So all he needed to make his final arrangements was a lawyer. Dorothy has fooled many people in believing her to be human, so she inherited Waynewright's property and whatever wealth he had left.

I don't believe that Waynewright's funeral occured after Beck was captured. It seems that Dorothy moved in to the Smith Mansion the next day.

You could say that Dorothy was mourning her father when she was wearing her black dress. At the time she moved in to the Smith Mansion, she was unaware of Roger's primary rule that all occupants must wear black.

I think Dorothy could have moved back into Waynewright's Mansion, we'll see it in a future episode, and it's dilapidated. Underlining Waynewright's eccentricty. Yet Dorothy said she had no money to repay Roger's negotiations so she's working off her debt by looking after him. I also think that Dorothy was attracted to Roger from when they first met, so a secret reason is that she just wants to be near Roger.
Narsham 12-26-2003 12:08 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Bentar
Notice a difference?
Sigh. I Love the Cartoon Network folk. They introduced me to Big O. They gave us Season 2. But the Stripes Fiasco, Missing 'Show Must Go On' ending, Dorothy on the hourglass on Ep 1, and now simply the wrong credits. Come on guys, you're better than this!


They've been wrong since they went to the "faster" credit sequence.

I think they were hoping nobody noticed, or cared.

I suspect it is actually a contract violation for them to use the wrong credits, so if someone more upset than I am wants to contact the Screen Actors' Guild and bring this to their attention... Wink

Narsham
Narsham 12-26-2003 12:14 PM
quote:
Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato
I believe that Dorothy falls in love with him when he rescues her and says, "You're Dorothy Wayneright! Just be who you are!" For all his later sniping at her, he really believes she's a person in her own right, not just a ghost of the human Dorothy or a mechanical fake.


Great quote.

Being who you are (and having people around you who believe in and support who you are) is central to the themes of the show.

As for Waynewright's mansion, I personally suspect that the Paradigm Corp claimed it upon his death. There are items there which they probably consider to belong to them.

Narsham
A Clockwork Tomato 12-26-2003 12:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Peabody
Well, Doc. Waynewright was a eccentric millionaire/scientist. So all he needed to make his final arrangements was a lawyer. Dorothy has fooled many people in believing her to be human, so she inherited Waynewright's property and whatever wealth he had left.


Normally the identity of kin is checked at least a little bit, and the police knew that Wayneright has no daughter. Also, Dorothy doesn't like lying, and a bald-faced lie to Roger to get into Smith Manor would be out of character. In many episodes, Dorothy goes out of her way to make sure that people know she's an android. She only seems to want to pass for human with casual encounters, such as with shopkeepers.

quote:

I don't believe that Waynewright's funeral occured after Beck was captured. It seems that Dorothy moved in to the Smith Mansion the next day.


Beck's second attempt on the mint happened very shortly after Wayneright was killed -- Roger was still in the Nightengale when it started. Beck was captured that same night. Wayneright's funeral must have happened after this. If we assume that Dorothy appeared with Norman on the penthouse roof the morning after Beck was captured (which I believe), then Wayneright's funeral had not even been arranged yet, much less held. We don't know if Dorothy was invited, or if she attended.

quote:

You could say that Dorothy was mourning her father when she was wearing her black dress. At the time she moved in to the Smith Mansion, she was unaware of Roger's primary rule that all occupants must wear black.


She was also carrying Roger's coffee on a tray, which meant she was being presented as a member of the staff, and needed to be properly attired. The only explanation that makes sense to me is that Norman provided the dress. Her red party dress must have been ruined anyway, by the time Roger got her out of Dorothy 1.

quote:

I think Dorothy could have moved back into Waynewright's Mansion, we'll see it in a future episode, and it's dilapidated. Underlining Waynewright's eccentricty. Yet Dorothy said she had no money to repay Roger's negotiations so she's working off her debt by looking after him. I also think that Dorothy was attracted to Roger from when they first met, so a secret reason is that she just wants to be near Roger.


Dorothy has an aversion to lying. There's no reason to assume that Wayneright had a positive net worth. He probably did before he built Dorothy, but he may have been up to his ears in debt, and facing the repossession of everything he had.
number9 12-26-2003 06:17 PM
I seem to remember Beck (or one of his men) shooting Solderno [sic] before. Last night they just showed him laying in a pool of his own blood...

Am I just imagining things or was Beck & co. never shown actually shooting the old man?
Pygmalion 12-26-2003 06:37 PM
quote:
Originally posted by number9
I seem to remember Beck (or one of his men) shooting Solderno [sic] before. Last night they just showed him laying in a pool of his own blood...

Am I just imagining things or was Beck & co. never shown actually shooting the old man?

Beck's goon shot Wayneright in Nightingale in "Dorothy, Dorothy." We never see Soldano shot, but from the blood on the control room glass, and the glass on the ground, it must have been a pretty big round from inside the control room.

Pygmalion
Zopwx2 12-26-2003 08:31 PM
ACT 26 is playing this sunday dec 28, at 1:30 am.

...at least according to my digital cable guide.