Discuss the Current Episode

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Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato Nasty scars, Angel. And you're not self-conscious about them at all. Interesting. Looks like the people who felt that foreshadowing Act 26 wasn't done until Act 26 were off by 19 episodes. Well, that's about average for a Big O theory.

Well scars on the back don't necassarily translate to underground holodeck, wierd 4th big, that erases everything and resets the world.

I mean her name was angel, so they decided to throw in the scars to reinforce her nickname.

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Originally posted by Zopwx2 Well scars on the back don't necassarily translate to underground holodeck, wierd 4th big, that erases everything and resets the world. I mean her name was angel, so they decided to throw in the scars to reinforce her nickname.

How? Is there a body of religious art in which angels are all disfigured or something?

1) scars don't mean that whole holodeck thing, it only says that they she has some sort of fallen angel aspect to her.

2) Possibly since they named her angel and she couldn't walk around with giant wings becuase that would be strange, they used the scars to imply that her wings were cut off,

has there ever been an angel with its wings cut off...?

wait, am I proving your side..dam, did lucifer get his wings cut? I don't remember.....

Simple. Fallen Angel. If a bird was to have it's wings cut off, it would be unable to fly and would fall. Same concept here.

I'm trying to make the arguement that that fact doesn't necassarily forshodow some specific events in act 26 that include big venus, holodeck world, erasures, etc.

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Originally posted by Zopwx2 I'm trying to make the arguement that that fact doesn't necassarily forshodow some specific events in act 26 that include big venus, holodeck world, erasures, etc.

I was responding to ACT's disfigurement thing.

Everyone's going to talk about how cute Dorothy was in this episode, and of course they're right, but I'm gonna talk about Roger. And Angel.

We all call Roger a louse, but is there ANY limit to what he'll do for Dorothy? As long as he doesn't actually have to smooch her or use a four-letter word that starts with "L" and ends with "E."

He was clearly prepared to spend a sizable fortune to buy Pero for Dorothy, just because she asked him to -- and she didn't even ask nicely. As always, he's pleased when she shows human emotions, even ones that put him to inconvenience and expense.

Angel was a lot of fun in this episode. I love the way she bickers with Roger. And that was some fancy shootin' when she took out the video camera. This is the first episode where Angel, who bitches all the time about Roger's no-gun policy, nevertheless manages not to shoot anyone herself (this time by tossing Roger her gun). We'll see her choke several more times.

Roger is rash and runs into a scary, labyrinthine, well-guarded facility without a plan or a map. Angel has the map, at least. If Roger were just a tiny bit less rash, he'd have Angel do all his planning for him!

And note how, during the fight scene, when Dorothy says "stop," Roger stops and waits for further instructions. Is that love or what? He wouldn't behave that way for Angel, that's for sure.

Angel only says "darn it!" at the end. She swears more colorfully later in the series. Roger's bad influence?

Why doesn't Roger put Angel in Big O's cockpit with him? He knows she knows his secret. It seemed sort of dangerous to leave her behind.

Actually, it's Toonami censorship in Angel's case... Or so the DVD subtitle implies. Want me to check? I can tell you right now that Dastun is SUPPOSED to say 'What in the hell' when they find the dog, and in Winter Night Phantom he was supposed to say 'The inquiry can kiss my ass' instead of stuff it.

Funny.
Typically, Missing Cat doesn't spring to mind when the discussion turns to listing one's favorite episodes.
However, whenever I see it, it makes me realize how much I just adore one of my favorite female characters, ever.

Stop the world; there's a desk toucher on the loose.
C'mon.
Does Roger really think Dorothy could have mauled his desktop like that?
Well, I don't think she could have done such a thing.
If she really would have done that kind of damage, then Roger would have to keep one eye open while he sleeps, too.
Ridiculous, Roger.
Simply ridiculous.

Damn right.
It is sooooooooo good to see Dorothy doing more than sweeping the Bank floors.
I'm not sure about Roger, but when I see her on her feet going nose-to-nose with her raven-suited employer and acting like any other girl in that situation, well...I don't want it spoiled.
Roger, just go fix your hourglass, pay whatever it takes to buy Pero, and shut up.
Get off of my cloud and don't spoil my trip.

Highlight:
Norman wielding heavy machine gun.

Just how much money does Roger pay Big Ear for his information?
That looks like a pretty hefty pile of bills.
Occupation:
Selling information to Negotiator in Black, and holding-down seat at local bar.

Dorothy always gets the same compliment:
Her being a well-made doll, etc., etc.
I hope she takes it as a positive thing.

Is that a nicotine patch below Eugene's eye?
Geez.
For all of his mad scientist brilliance, I guess he forgot to take into account the possibility of one of his creations turning on him.
I mean, it's not exactly like they were willing to participate in the first place.
He really should have known.

I realize that it might have compromised the romantic tension the writers wanted to achive, but this fan wanted to see a quick peck on the cheek as Dorothy exited the last scene.

*sighs*

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Originally posted by Zopwx2 1) scars don't mean that whole holodeck thing, it only says that they she has some sort of fallen angel aspect to her.

So the writers create a character who they decide is a fallen angel, an angel who has lost her wings. They give her wing scars and name her accordingly.

They then completely respin that premise so that she isn't an angel but something completely different.

Why is that more plausible than that they knew basically who and what she was from the start?

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2) Possibly since they named her angel and she couldn't walk around with giant wings becuase that would be strange, they used the scars to imply that her wings were cut off, has there ever been an angel with its wings cut off...? wait, am I proving your side..dam, did lucifer get his wings cut? I don't remember.....

Lucifer isn't described as Lucifer. IIRC, he isn't described clearly in the Bible as Satan either. But no description I'm aware of has his wings cut off; indeed, in Paradise Lost Satan has wings and can use them, too.

The Fall of a fallen angel is primarily metaphoric, not literal.

I don't buy your argument yet. This show has a lot of foreshadowing, a lot of elements put in place in early episodes which don't pay off until later.

Even on lousy TV shows with little continuity and no foreshadowing, the series bible includes character descriptions, often detailed ones. And Big O is not a lousy TV show.

If you want to argue that the creators originally had something completely different in mind for Angel, present your theory as to what that was, and evidence from the early episodes consistant with your theory and inconsistant with the theory that they had Episode 26 (or some version of it) in mind from the start. Then we'll see...

Narsham

Well, I don't have a theory on this, and all I can go on is my gut feeling:

I lean towards what I think Zopwx2 is saying.
I believe that they had something mind-blowing in mind for those marks on her back, but it wasn't decided upon at first.

spoiler (highlight to read):

The stuff that Angel was involved with (glowing scars, running some control room, taking a ride in Big Venus, or at least having her name associated with it) wasn't in place early on. Perhaps the vaguest notions of where they wanted to be by #26 rolled around, but not those details. The main reason for my thinking this is the sudden appearance of those freakin' tomatoes and Roger babbling out of the blue, "Who am I?" That was right at the start of #14, wasn't it? Even though there was the first of the apocalyptic flashbacks at the start of #13, I am guessing that by the time the guys came back from their three-year layover to produce another 13 episodes, it was only then that a clearer view of what Angel would turn-out to be was really known, and the rest of the plot's details, as well.

Just a hunch

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Originally posted by YZEtc [I]Funny. Typically, Missing Cat doesn't spring to mind when the discussion turns to listing one's favorite episodes.

In point of fact, it *is* one of my favorite episodes. Although I had caught parts of two or maybe three earlier episodes ("Electric City" and "The Call From the Past" for sure, and *maybe* something else), I believe it was "Missing Cat" that first got my full attention and made me a Big O fan. I really can't say enough good things about it. I wouldn't know where to start.

Doc

The tomatoes showed up in #13. Many things in season 2 have an antecedant in season 1. This becomes more obvious each time I see season 1.

Pygmalion

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From dr_malaki: In point of fact, it *is* one of my favorite episodes. Although I had caught parts of two or maybe three earlier episodes ("Electric City" and "The Call From the Past" for sure, and *maybe* something else), I believe it was "Missing Cat" that first got my full attention and made me a Big O fan. I really can't say enough good things about it. I wouldn't know where to start.

I'm with ya' 100%, Doc.
When I say that, I'm referring to what springs into my own clouded mind

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From Pygmalion: The tomatoes showed up in #13. Many things in season 2 have an antecedant in season 1. This becomes more obvious each time I see season 1.

You're right about the episode the tomatoes first appear in.
For me, though, the suddeness of their appearance - and how hard we are hit with them right at the start of #14 - has me thinking.

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Originally posted by Narsham quote: Originally posted by Zopwx2 1) scars don't mean that whole holodeck thing, it only says that they she has some sort of fallen angel aspect to her. So the writers create a character who they decide is a fallen angel, an angel who has lost her wings. They give her wing scars and name her accordingly. They then completely respin that premise so that she isn't an angel but something completely different. Why is that more plausible than that they knew basically who and what she was from the start? quote: 2) Possibly since they named her angel and she couldn't walk around with giant wings becuase that would be strange, they used the scars to imply that her wings were cut off, has there ever been an angel with its wings cut off...? wait, am I proving your side..dam, did lucifer get his wings cut? I don't remember..... Lucifer isn't described as Lucifer. IIRC, he isn't described clearly in the Bible as Satan either. But no description I'm aware of has his wings cut off; indeed, in Paradise Lost Satan has wings and can use them, too. The Fall of a fallen angel is primarily metaphoric, not literal. I don't buy your argument yet. This show has a lot of foreshadowing, a lot of elements put in place in early episodes which don't pay off until later. Even on lousy TV shows with little continuity and no foreshadowing, the series bible includes character descriptions, often detailed ones. And Big O is not a lousy TV show. If you want to argue that the creators originally had something completely different in mind for Angel, present your theory as to what that was, and evidence from the early episodes consistant with your theory and inconsistant with the theory that they had Episode 26 (or some version of it) in mind from the start. Then we'll see... Narsham

I'm not saying they had absolultely no idea what angel was all about, or that they had some alternate idea for her.

I'm just saying most likley the writers were not 100% sure on exactly how Angel would do whatever it is she did, when they finished act 13.

They admit that they changed and added stuff during the 13-14 break. For example Alan Gabriel was created after act 13 was already aired and done with.

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From Pygmalion: The tomatoes showed up in #13. Many things in season 2 have an antecedant in season 1. This becomes more obvious each time I see season 1.

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Originally posted by: Yztec You're right about the episode the tomatoes first appear in. For me, though, the suddeness of their appearance - and how hard we are hit with them right at the start of #14 - has me thinking.

I actually loved how act 13 ended. It was as if everyone had been avoiding the subject the whole season. Then suddenly as he is walking he asks norman about how he can repair the Deus and then the whole episode is nonstop flashbacks, and new evidence. It could possibly be the best episode of the whole show.

Another great Roger-Dorothy episode!

You MUST watch it. Look into my eyes ... you are NOT feeling sleepy ... you are NOT feeling sleepy ...

Hey! Come to think of it, I suppose Beck is probably in the episode, too!

(Sorry, Unibasu, I couldn't resist!)

Did we ever decide what the old mans deal was?

The guy who was kidnapped wasn't really his son right. Thats what I got, that she was already pregnant before the event, and he wanted to keep it a secret that the son was not his.

This is the best beck episode, when the brick whammed that goon in the head I cracked up. Plus I belive the decapitation of becks crappy deus was a much funnier way to get beat. Big o just looked pissed off (even though he can't ever change his expression)

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Originally posted by Zopwx2 Did we ever decide what the old mans deal was? The guy who was kidnapped wasn't really his son right. Thats what I got, that she was already pregnant before the event, and he wanted to keep it a secret that the son was not his.

I get the feeling there must have been more to it than that

The tale I like to spin for this goes as follows: Not only wasn't the son not his, but the mansion wasn't either. You can imagine him waking up with no memories on the morning after the Event, and finding himself in an apartment over the garage with a lot of cheffeur's uniforms in the closet, but, finding himself alone in a house with a gorgeous woman, and no one arriving to claim it (and her), he does a quick upgrade of his wardrobe with her consent and becomes one of the movers and shakers in the City!

The city must have thousands of stories like that.

The Event would have been a lousy time to have been away on a business trip. You wake up allone in a motel room and don't know where home is.

Almost as bad, you wake up in an apartment or in a suburb and can't figure out what it was that you did for a living. Brain surgeons who can't quite remember their work history aren't likely to stumble upon their calling by accident!

Pero really made Dorothy open up and emote. Contrasted with her earlier appearances she's really expressive in this episode. Makes you wonder how much more emotional progress she would have made had Pero remained her kitten rather than meeting the fate that he did.

I just had the distinct pleasure of watching Missing Cat. Wow, what a great episode, not good enough to topple R-D as best ever but runner up. It was kinda sad....I wish we find out more about Dorothy before the ending of the season. I think Im depressing myself....