Discuss the Current Episode

(I didn't watch the episode, but I've seen it hundreds of times. Don't yell at me ACT)

This episode has its bad points but is far overshadowed by the good points. Its jampacked with all kinds of threads and things going on simultaneously and you can probably float the episode on all the dramatic tension alone!

First off the fight, not my favorite but still good. It was somewhat of an echo of the act 12 battle. First off the animation was varied during the fight and a couple parts like the lifting of duo with the chain rockets struck me as very lame, but there were some awesome portions where everything would turn grey and slow down, and Schwarzwald steps in to give his narration, just multiplying the tension.

Now about Alan and the megadeus. Apparently his demise is supposed to teach us something about the way domini interact with megadei, but I haven't thought about it too much. But we can certainly see that a megadeus is not just a machine that can be used. Anyway schwarzwald pops in to just smack that creepy wierdo alan down with pure badassitude, before he floats up into the clouds.

Now for the rest of the ep, this is the episode were the sh** finally hits the fan and the really wierd stuff starts happening. (if giant robots weren't wierd enough for you).

First dorothy's memory was used in Becks super brain for alex's frankenstien big complete with obligitory christian symbolism. Simple enough. Makes us wonder where beck managed to come up with all these memory fragmetns that taught him how to work with megadei and androids.... and why they left her standing on the ledge of a building, and why people gathered to watch when just five minutes ago giant robots destroyed half a block for no resason.... who knows.

Now dastun seeing his younger self! BEATS ME! Then Angel finding her childhood memory on stage? WTF? then and forever playing!!!!!!

*throws remote at the TV*

That was my reaction the first time I saw it.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Seebach: [Zopwx2] and why they left her standing on the ledge of a building....

That was one of the most poignant scenes for me. Roger arrives to take Dorothy home (as in her words to him from "The Third Big") but he was too late -- Dorothy's self had gone missing.

Pygmalion

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Seebach: [Zopwx2] .... and why they left her standing on the ledge of a building, .

I think leaving Dorothy there served a double purpose, both emotionally driven. First I think the writers just wanted to go for the heart with the fans. (And I think it worked; from what I understand, the scene is touching) And second, I kind of think it was someone's version of a "nah nah nah nah nah nah" to Roger , I really do.

Alex Rosewater probably ordered that Dorothy's body be balanced precariously so.

Alan piloted Big Duo well (CNAS did not air acts 13 or 23 when I archived the episodes so my memory of Gordon offering Alan his suprise is foggy at best) but the new human refused to make the right choice. This factors into the final scenes of act 26 with rogers final choise and his images of whenever that was.

Schwattzvalt taking conrol of Big Duo indicates that the human condition is not limited to flesh and bone, but can be also metal and circuitry. Ever cynical, our ever-so psychotic German drove the Union Cyborg to his funeral in the sky, only after giving a wonderful ulegy that reflects the real worlds problems that the old guard is unwilling to move foreward and change, and thus get stuck in their own paradigm.

Angel is the victim as well as the punisher. She is the one who placed everything on the line, her friendships, her livelyhood, whatever she may call a family. Now stuck on the streets, wandering the domes, like Roger did a season prior. This time though, there is not butler and no Dorothy to keep her grounded and sane, so she went underground and found, her home.

More to come I'm sure, the final episodes are the best of the series.

I just watched it... and im curious as too y the Big Duo engulfed Alan just because he wasnt the dominus... wouldnt it just cause Big Duo to not work???

quote:

Originally posted by AndroidZeroX I just watched it... and im curious as too y the Big Duo engulfed Alan just because he wasnt the dominus... wouldnt it just cause Big Duo to not work???

Just remember what Roger and Seebach says to Alan.
Add that Roger smash up Big Duo Inferno's head.
Last, consider that most of fanboy are agree saying Big's head contains their memory themselves.
Alan is not the Duo Dominus, neither a general Dominus.

It's that time again! BIG O starts airing on Adult Swim tonight. Dust off your VCR or TiVo and prepare to record, watch, discuss, and dissect the current episode!

After all, I'll bet it's been a long, long time since you've watched ROGER THE NEGOTIATOR.

Oh it was great!

Last night right at Midnight I checked our channel that lists upcoming programs for the next hour and a half. I went to bed easy after I knew my VCR was set for the right time, set to watch "Big O: Roger The Negotiater" according to programming list.

And now I just watched it (the reason I'm posting at 8:30 some is because school got canceled due to snow and freezing rain; otherwise I'd be in 2nd period Physics right now)

I shall always record when I can, because if another TV is tuned to Big O, that's another person on the ratings, even if I have the DVDs.

Now, as for Act 1, things I've noticed that I didn't before, or maybe others said but I just scimmed over:
- When Roger and Dastun talk while Dastun looks at Roger's pictures, Roger coments on Dastun looking through his stuff, and Dastun replies "assuming, these are your own memories." This seems to say that it is possible for the wrong person to end up with someone else's memories, ideas brought back in Act 15, Negotiation With The Dead, as well as used as backup for some people's theories here.
-When Roger meets with Beck, he's in his double breasted business suit. Right after (or at least, we assume right after) when he meets with Big Ear, he's wearing a coat over his suit. The coat didn't look like it was in his car! Where did it come from!
EDIT:-The ending was still sped up, and this time, they didn't even include the telephone with the name of the next episode! Not only that, but the sped up ending credits had Roger AND Dorothy, where in the original Act 1 ending, it was just Roger sitting on the hourglass.

As always, I love to hear Sure Promise in the background, so that just made my entire day, seeing this episode again. What do you guys think?

quote:

Originally posted by NVWC2006 Now, as for Act 1, things I've noticed that I didn't before, or maybe others said but I just scimmed over: - When Roger and Dastun talk while Dastun looks at Roger's pictures, Roger coments on Dastun looking through his stuff, and Dastun replies "assuming, these are your own memories." This seems to say that it is possible for the wrong person to end up with someone else's memories, ideas brought back in Act 15, Negotiation With The Dead, as well as used as backup for some people's theories here.

I thought it might be early foreshadowing of the tomatoes, or even just a reference to people who want memories so badly that they find pictures and say "this is my family" aka the replicants in Blade Runner.

quote:

Originally posted by Zola I thought it might be early foreshadowing of the tomatoes, or even just a reference to people who want memories so badly that they find pictures and say "this is my family" aka the replicants in Blade Runner.

It's an especially odd remark on Dastun's part because it's plainly Roger in those photos -- heck, it's plainly Dastun in one of them. Have the people of Paradigm become so distrustful even of the evidence of their own eyes? Or do they perhaps remember the previous realities on some level?

quote:

Originally posted by Penny Century quote: Originally posted by Zola I thought it might be early foreshadowing of the tomatoes, or even just a reference to people who want memories so badly that they find pictures and say "this is my family" aka the replicants in Blade Runner. It's an especially odd remark on Dastun's part because it's plainly Roger in those photos -- heck, it's plainly Dastun in one of them. Have the people of Paradigm become so distrustful even of the evidence of their own eyes? Or do they perhaps remember the previous realities on some level?

There are a bunch of photos on the mantle. If any of them are more than 40 years old, no one remembers anything about them.

My guess is that Roger has some photos that are obviously genuine and others that may just be wishful thinking -- they may be of his family, 40+ years ago, and, then again, maybe not. This may irritate Dastun, who's more than 40 years old and has lost part of his childhood.

I only watched the first half of Roger the Negotiator this time, but seeing it again brought up some thoughts.

Yeah, I can see how some people think this show is a lot lower in key (more subtle) and slower in pace than other anime, but man you just gotta love its style!

Hearing the Roger/Soldano argument about the "fake" vs. "real" Dorothy made more sense to me - knowing that each of them were thinking of a different "real" Dorothy. Roger was still thinking of a human girl. Soldano never talks about the "real" Dorothy being human - he just says that the "fake" Dorothy (the android we all know and love) is obviously not the real one. When you listen to their dialogue again, you can tell that they are thinking about two different things.


Listening to Datun's voice in his first scene in Roger's mansion - Dastun sounds differently than he usually does. I'm not sure, but it just sounded almost like a different V.A. I'll have to watch it again.

quote:

Originally posted by Schoolie I only watched the first half of Roger the Negotiator this time, but seeing it again brought up some thoughts. Yeah, I can see how some people think this show is a lot lower in key (more subtle) and slower in pace than other anime, but man you just gotta love its style! Hearing the Roger/Soldano argument about the "fake" vs. "real" Dorothy made more sense to me - knowing that each of them were thinking of a different "real" Dorothy. Roger was still thinking of a human girl. Soldano never talks about the "real" Dorothy being human - he just says that the "fake" Dorothy (the android we all know and love) is obviously not the real one. When you listen to their dialogue again, you can tell that they are thinking about two different things. Listening to Datun's voice in his first scene in Roger's mansion - Dastun sounds differently than he usually does. I'm not sure, but it just sounded almost like a different V.A. I'll have to watch it again.

The first act was a pilot, So I guess Dastun's VA was just finding his character.

Damn love the style too, but I forgot how ummm.. well.. "batmanish" roger is.

yah well he ain't batman...Batman doesn't have a giant freakin robot

Roger the Negotiator is probably not "the" best episode...but it certainly is a good opener I think. Shows you he's a normal guy (well a negotiator at any rate) that upholds what's "right"...and whenever some punk really pisses him off he's got a 20 story tall can of whoop-@$$ to unleash

Soldano looked very ill. His color was bad, he almost staggered as he ran, and he seemed exhausted. He concealed essential facts from the negotiator and then was enraged and blamed Roger when Beck took advantage of Soldano's lapse. No matter how you put the pieces of the story together, Soldano seems to have been a few cards short of a full deck. I wonder if he hadn't suffered some kind of collapse (nervous breakdown? heart attack?) when the Dorothies were stolen. It would be just like the show's creators to show us the consequences without telling us the causes.

The animation is very subtle in places. Dorothy is calmer, more poised, and more coordinated when walking blindfolded than Beck's goon was with his eyes open. He was nervous and Dorothy was not.

When they meet, Dorothy and Roger can't keep their eyes off each other.

Was Dorothy being extra-robotic just to annoy Roger? We rarely see her move like a robot or make whirring noises unless it's going to tick off Roger. Offhand, I can think of only one exception (in CALL FROM THE PAST).

I still think we read too much into the robot noises.

Of course we know dorothy can learn to act and move more humanlike as she learns and watches other people.

But I don't think she really controlls how loud her machinery is, I think thats just the writers adding those in when they want to emphasize her machine side.

I truly love this episode for many reasons.

- Despite popular belief, I believe Dorothy acted like her natural self around her father. One can say her cuteness and charms were programmed into her, but I believe that's the way she truly behaves. It's when she's with Roger she's stiff and inanimate. Why? Because Roger expects that from her.

- Beck was not as "silly" as he is in the subsequent acts.

- Roger was humiliated by Dorothy's fashion remark.

- We actually get a glimpse on how the Big O is deactivated and prepared for storage.

- We get our first look at what kind of memories goes inside Roger's head. It seems he was plagued by guilt (which would account for his rule of "living or dead, a contract mist be fulfilled".

- Dorothy, red dress, singing... must I say more?

quote:

Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato Soldano looked very ill. His color was bad, he almost staggered as he ran, and he seemed exhausted. He concealed essential facts from the negotiator and then was enraged and blamed Roger when Beck took advantage of Soldano's lapse. No matter how you put the pieces of the story together, Soldano seems to have been a few cards short of a full deck. I wonder if he hadn't suffered some kind of collapse (nervous breakdown? heart attack?) when the Dorothies were stolen. It would be just like the show's creators to show us the consequences without telling us the causes. The animation is very subtle in places. Dorothy is calmer, more poised, and more coordinated when walking blindfolded than Beck's goon was with his eyes open. He was nervous and Dorothy was not. When they meet, Dorothy and Roger can't keep their eyes off each other. Was Dorothy being extra-robotic just to annoy Roger? We rarely see her move like a robot or make whirring noises unless it's going to tick off Roger. Offhand, I can think of only one exception (in CALL FROM THE PAST).

In the first Manga, we see how Beck 'steals' the Dorothies from Soldano (or I think it's Solderno in the manga), and then how Roger and Soldano meet. Soldano is so out of it that he goes to the Speakeasy to get drunk, and when he hears Big Ear call Roger Paradigm City's top negotiater, he comes over to see Roger. Big Ear then makes a joke on how Roger seems to be better at attracting crazy drunks than women.

Random notes...

Dorothy is upset when Dorothy 1 makes the mental connection with her, but she isn't terrified. This is important, because of the contrast with what happens in UNDERGROUND TERROR. The FACT that there's a connection with a Megadeus is not the scary part. The scary part is that hostile Megadeuses can do it, too.

Big O's turntable is in a hemispherical underground chamber. We see many of these in the show. Where did they come from? What are they for? Because we see so many people using these chambers for different purposes, I think the terror effect doesn't work in them, just in the tunnels.

Big O doesn't live in the chamber, though, but right in the building with Roger. Why? I think so he can influence Roger and Norman telepathically. Actual mechanical work would be easier in the spacious underground chamber, and it takes extra time for Big O to be transported there and rotated to a horizontal position. A fast elevator for Roger, with Big O on the train and ready to go, would be quicker.

Which brings me to the connection between Big O and Dorothy. It must be there, but its effect is very subtle.

Dorothy behaves one way when Wayneright is around, and another way the rest of the time. When she steps offstage, she changes instantly from her girlish persona to the colder, more grown-up persona she uses the rest of the time. Some people have suggested that the face she shows Wayneright is the real one, but since we only ever see it once, and we've seen the other one both before and after the scene in the Nightengale, I think the girlish persona is an act for Wayneright's benefit; something she never does unless she has to.

Did Big O put Norman up to hiring Dorothy? Who really makes the decisions in Smith Manor?

I can see the megadei are able to communicate with androids, and that they display varying amounts of intelligence... but I can't completely follow you on the telepathic part.

I can't really picture O manipulating people with special powers, too much of a stretch for me. (ignoring how wierd the show is already)