Discuss the Current Episode

I find R.D a bit hard to follow. I can get all the big obvious stuff, but I can't help feeling a bit lost in all the unexplained things going on.

You mean the nightmares/tomatoes/murders/CAST IN THE NAME OF GOD lipstick scrawlings?
Well, CWolf, fasten your seat belt and put on your thinking cap, because compared to the episodes to follow, #13 made a world of sense ) .

Yeah, I really like the Wham!-Bam!-Bam! combination of Daemonseed, Enemy Is Another Big , and R-D .
These are three good episodes that get my thumbs-up, fer sher, and the climax of #13 is a great way to wrap-up a season of negotiating, winding-up Big O for a killer piston punches, telling Norman that it's OK dinner will be late, again, and sneaking glances at your live-in assistant when she isn't looking.

I'm a bit surprised that Roger left Gordon's farm after their interview without a bit more information.
Seems hardly worth the drive out there, unless he's planning on making a salad when he gets back home.
Maybe he wasn't feeling himself.

It's the final few minutes that really do it for me.
I like how Dorothy and Big O arrive just in a nick of time to save Roger's butt - and even though Dorothy claims that, "It did it on it's own." , I like to patronize myself by believing that the red-head was simply too modest for wanting to take the credit for that maneuver.

You go, girl.

So, after having a pretty tough time of it where Roger has been fingered by the MP (thanks, Dastun), can't get a good night's sleep due to his suddenly-appearing nightmares and daytime hallucinations, and - if that isn't enough - wondering where Dorothy's been as of late, Big O comes crashing up from the underground (reducing the formidable R-D to a pile of IC chips), his main doors open, and out pops Dorothy's head.

The sight of this is probably the best thing that could have happened to Roger at that point, because once the pair lock eyes and ackowledge what had just taken place, he seems quite relieved and more like his old self, even forgetting about that nasty hole in his arm and subsequent stain on his white shirt.
To complete the process, Dorothy gives him a bit of a snappy zinger when he asks why he hadn't seen her around The Bank, lately.
I don't think Roger really minded, however, and if he's like me, he was somewhat caught-up in the moment as he admired the spunk of his pretty assistant, and the awesome sight of Big O's silhouette against the amnesiatic sky.

Aahh.
Feels like old times.

Sure Promise strikes-up.
Norman announces that trouble's a'brewing with something (in the form of three Megadeuses) approaching the city from the Atlantic.
Dinner is put on hold as Roger tells Dorothy to put on her best shade of lipstick because they're going out - out to kick some ass.

It's a virtual who's-who of the memory-challenged city as the whole town's down by the waterfront to meet the approaching Megadeuses.
As Roger grips the joysticks, Dorothy dexterously leaps to his side, assisting him as they prepare to engage the threat off shore (while casting him a curious, sideways glance about his comment of choices and umbrellas in the rain).
As Roger shouts, "SHOOOOOOOWW - TIIIIIIIIIME!" , Big O slams his knuckles together and fires a bright-as-the-sun Chromebuster just as the background music crescendoes to a pulse-raising peak.

That's quite a way to go out with a bang.
I like it.

The forums were down, so let's skip a week and start Season 2 off on Saturday, August 30.

We'll all watch ROGER THE WANDERER and discuss on Saturday.

Be there or be absent!

August 28th.

I have to say that for episodes 13 and 14 both, R-D and Roger the Wanderer, I feel like I'm being taken for a wild ride, and when it's over I'm left blinking and disoriented, asking, "Uh... what just happened?? It came at me way too fast..." I doubt that I'll be able to discuss anything rational about them until I've seen them 5 or 6 times.

Yeah, I think a lot of the discombobulation comes from the fact that there was a gap of 2 or so years between making the first and second seasons.

Then again, I don't think R.D. is really that bad - someone (maybe the Union, maybe even Alex Rosewater of Paradigm) activated R.D. to kill people with memories.

The confusing part is Roger the Wanderer - but I think that's because it's a dream sequence - which then also connects to the whole "mystery" thing. I think it resolves when Roger decides about his role as negotiator - which pushes into the rest of the second season. The negotiator thing (and dominus of megadeus) becomes all the more important toward the last half of season 2. To me, it's just the part of a story where the hero questions his purpose and motivation.

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Originally posted by Schoolie The confusing part is Roger the Wanderer - but I think that's because it's a dream sequence - which then also connects to the whole "mystery" thing. I think it resolves when Roger decides about his role as negotiator - which pushes into the rest of the second season. The negotiator thing (and dominus of megadeus) becomes all the more important toward the last half of season 2. To me, it's just the part of a story where the hero questions his purpose and motivation.

Mmhmm. I think it's a question of identity, really. That, Roger, not having his memories, is trying to figure out who he truly is. Sort of a midlife crisis to several degrees of exponents. This all serves to lead into the last episode, Roger's declaration that "People are not ruled by their memories." It sets up for Roger to discover that people can be whoever they are, that they are free, and memories are pointless to those who chose to be who they are.

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Originally posted by Wienberg Mmhmm. I think it's a question of identity, really. That, Roger, not having his memories, is trying to figure out who he truly is. Sort of a midlife crisis to several degrees of exponents. This all serves to lead into the last episode, Roger's declaration that "People are not ruled by their memories." It sets up for Roger to discover that people can be whoever they are, that they are free, and memories are pointless to those who chose to be who they are.

I also like that Roger acknowledges the importance Dorothy has to him at that point:

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Roger: And you are Dorothy Wayneright. You called me Roger Smith, didn't you, Dorothy? And is it... appropriate for me to play Roger Smith? Dorothy: You said play. But that's ridiculous. You're not an actor, Roger Smith. Roger: Yes, that's right, R. Dorothy Wayneright. As long as you keep on calling me that name, I'll be Roger Smith! (beat) Big O! Showtime!

Given the focus on the memories not stopping you from being who you are, I think this section gives an important additional thought: The people around us help make us who we are. We've all run into this, that a friend's belief in us gives us the courage to work out of a situation that might have otherwise overwhelmed us... the look in our kids' eyes encourages us to do right instead of what's expedient... there's a zillion examples.

I love how the show handles this fundamental conflict by showing that it isn't a conflict at all--had this been an American Superhero show, Roger would have denied Dorothy's importance to him and continued to walk alone.

Instead, this is the moment where she fully becomes a part of his life and he begins to act accordingly. Looking at it in retrospect, maybe I shouldn't have been so surprised when he went to save her from Alan--without committing to the *type* of relationship it was, this was definitely the moment the show acknowledged it existed.

Angel could bring him in the right direction, but it was Dorothy who gave him the strength to throw off the illusions and be who he was.

R.D. will remain a classic to me, watching uncut on DVD was cool seeing all that blood and seeing Roger having nightmares makes hime more human. Putting all those lose end/clips into one ep made this ep even better and wanted more they gave us season2. That is for RD now for Roger the wanderer a great opening for season2. Seeing Paradigm City being normal was cool seeing the real Dorothy shocks me and seeing the expression on Roger's face tells me that is not the Dorothy I know. Finding out who you are makes this ep rocks espcially at the end with "Apologine-Bleecker St"/"Sure Promise-Union Square" playing made the battle scene kick a$$.

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Originally posted by Zola Instead, this is the moment where she fully becomes a part of his life and he begins to act accordingly. Looking at it in retrospect, maybe I shouldn't have been so surprised when he went to save her from Alan--without committing to the *type* of relationship it was, this was definitely the moment the show acknowledged it existed. Angel could bring him in the right direction, but it was Dorothy who gave him the strength to throw off the illusions and be who he was.

This is so true. Dorothy seems to be Roger's light in this episode. We see in the opening scene Dorothy helping the injured Negotiator with his left hand controls. In his delusion (or a hybrid flashback/dream), he reached out to Dorothy (who was with another man), while in a later scene, he mocked Angel. Angel made every attempt to bring him back (taking in a car to a frightening place didn't help matters much). But it took the gentle words of Dorothy to make him realize who he really was. I personally think at this point Roger truly realize Dorothy was his everything.

That's a better way of saying it, Weinburg. - That Roger was searching for his identity. And the importance of Dorothy to him also really shows in that episode.

Sorry to be so late with this -- what with school starting for my kids and the break in routine caused by the site being down a couple of weeks ago, I'm forgetting to post reminders on Friday.

(But I just went to my Outlook calendar and set up a recurring appointment on Friday to post reminders and watch episodes. So now my computer and PDA will both chide me.)

This week's episode to watch and discuss is Act 15: NEGOTIATION WITH THE DEAD. Discussion to start ... right now!

guys, how come we have to talk about the episodes even if they're not airing on tv?

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Originally posted by darkangel guys, how come we have to talk about the episodes even if they're not airing on tv?

Come on, nobody is holding a gun to your head -- this is Liberty Hall! But when Cartoon Network unceremoniously yanked Big O from the Saturday lineup without warning, those of us who were discussing each episode as it aired decided to keep on discussing each subsequent episode as it it had aired as usual.

Pygmalion

oh I see...

I like this ep because it adds more info on "RD". Seeing that a andriod and a human could have a long relationship with one another. Seeing that Big-O has a new attack The Big-Thunder sweet. More of RD info could have been explain but Roger says it himself that he wish why RD just look like Dorothy? What was that other andriod? Was it a prototype of Dorothy or RD?

There's soooo much good stuff n NEGOTIATION WITH THE DEAD! It tied together the killings of WINTER NIGHT PHANTOM and R-D.

It had a truly wonderful Roger-Angel moment: "Isn't it about time you reconsidered your no-guns policy?" Not to mention some serious Angel-Dorothy tension, setting a pattern for the next five or six episodes, where Angel and Dorothy are wary of each other, and Angel consistently helps Roger, first crossing paths with him as if by accident, but later dropping this facade.

Dorothy hates personal questions, and Roger is sometimes very clueless about this. When Roger probed her about Wayneright and her early memories, he upset her and didn't seem to notice. As a result, she answered even more tersely than usual and, I think, less honestly. Bad move.

What was Roscoe Fitzgerald trying to get Roger to do? Who was controlling Glinda? Who programmed the android in Wayneright's house? Were all those books in Roscoe's library from before the Event?

Why did this episode translate the word "android" as "robot"?

A lot of the most important stuff in this epsiodes was said casually or in somewhat veiled terms. From what I understand, the old senators who were killed off in WINTER NIGHT PHANTOM knew stuff that could make them troublesome to Alex when he made his bid for godhood, so he had his Union pals kill them. In R-D, when it became clear that the "tomatoes" were starting to recall memories of the dead senators, they, too, had to go.

Presumably, the same people programmed R-D, Glinda, and the android in Wayneright's house.

Only one Senator/tomato pair still lived, according to Dorothy. This must be Gordon and Alex Rosewater.

Glinda was a lightweight, acrobatic Megadeus. The android that attacked Roger was also lightweight and acrobatic. It was very different in construction from Dorothy; it could not have passed for human, for one thing, and Dorothy doesn't have jets in her feet or anything like that.

Ah, human/android live! Seeing a human/android couple that's been happily married for over forty years gives you food for thought, doesn't it, Roger old boy?

Tomorrow night's virtual episode: DAY OF THE ADVENT.

Big-O piston smacking a fallen angel from the sky. What can Big-O can't do? Great EP but I don't get it later when instead of fallen angels I see fallen stage lights raining from the heavens. Tammy kinda looks like Dorothy.

A very uneven episode, but any episode with Angel in her pink jumpsuit is a good one.



I don't think anyone has mentioned the following parallel before: In DAY OF THE ADVENT, Jim McGowan wants Roger to negotiate with the angel who was going to bring about changes in the world.

In Act 25, Gordon Rosewater wants Roger to negotiate with Angel, who was going to bring about changes in the world.

This, I think, is the episode in which we become aware that there is a widespread belief among people in Paradigm that the world is less settled and permanent than it seems.

General commentary...

Angel and Roger. I love it when Angel and Roger are together. I love the way they work together, I love their banter, and I love the way they bicker. Angel's very sexy when she's with Roger.

In the Paradigm HQ scene, Angel is frightened for Roger's safety but is very confident about her own. Her total self-possession when confronting Alex Rosewater is strangely at odds with her lack of it when dealing with Alan Gabriel. One would think it would be the other way around, since Alex hold's Alan's leash.

Angel understands about orbital projections, interestingly enough. This can't possibly be common knowledge in Paradigm, where no one sees the stars.

Alex's description of orbital projections as a "memories of the future" is very strange. He seems to almost lack the concept of the difference between a prediction and a memory. In Act 17, Schwarzwald shows a similar aberration.

When Roger uses his watch to call Big O, Dorothy hears, somehow.

Dorothy is clearly fascinated by little Tammy, but, as usual, has no difficulty relating or anything. Unlike a real robot, she doesn't have any trouble grasping what Tammy expects of her. (I'm convinced that R. Dorothy and the human Dorothy are fundamentally the same person.)

Some of the elements of this episode are poorly executed. The crowd scenes in town are poorly animated. The whole idea of saving a town by punching a satellite is goofy. Having a little girl with a sensitivity to light in a town where the sun doesn't shine doesn't make any sense. And playing happily in the fallout is a peculiar ending!

But if an episode has good Dorothy and Angel moments, the rest doesn't really matter, does it?

** sigh ** Well, it’s been a long time since I posted here, but here I go. Unfortunately, this is one of my favorite and most disliked episodes. Why? Well, let me break it down a bit:

Likes:
This is of those episodes that show the heroics of Roger. What I mean to say is that he remains cool and calm in the face of adversity. He, along with his pink clad beauty, infiltrates Alex Rosewater’s secret lair to discover the three foreign Megadeuses in the hands of the frogmen. Despite being surrounded and outgunned, our favorite negotiator and Angel manage to escape. This is classic James Bond material, but it’s a lot more.

This episode is the first that shows Angel making a conscious effort to win over Roger. It’s obvious she laying her charms on him really thick. Also, it’s apparent that she was discovered by Alex Rosewater as a foreign spy and fired from Paradigm Corporation. However, was she really discovered by a crafty and slick CEO, or was she getting too sloppy (calling Roger with hints on where to find Schwartzwald, supplying his with information about Rosewater, being caught seen with him everywhere she goes,… etc).

While at the same time, Dorothy is rediscovering herself. This is one of a few times where her girlish nature (not necessarily immature, just sweet) shows how sweet and thoughtful she can be. I mean, here she is walking down the street, minding her own affair, then she comes across a little girl with an odd skin disorder. Most people would have felt pity or disgusted for Tammy, but not Dorothy. She treated her like she would treat anyone else, like a person.

I love the final scene where Dorothy is playing ball with Tammy. It’s great because you can tell that she really wanted to, not forced or thought it would be the kind thing to do. She showed her humanity there.

Dislikes:
This is the first episode where I was truly worried about Roger and Dorothy being a couple. It seems Roger was getting really chummy with Angel.

Also, Alan reveals himself to Roger as Alex’s bodyguard, assassin, lov… well, you get the hint.

Alex showed his discontent and contempt for the people of the outer dome sections of Paradigm. He reminded me of O'Brien from the book, “Nineteen Eighty-Four”. He’s so cold, so ruthless, so heartless. However, he lacks O’Brien’s intelligence and foresight. At any rate, he reveals his desire to have Roger’s “power” by any means. It’s obvious that this CEO is full of himself.

Angel is one of my fav characters of al time I'm so glad that roger & angel get along very well & have alot of good times together.Oh yes, angels R very glorious to all good people.