Discuss the Current Episode

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Originally posted by madrona quote: Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato Her silence may be a way of avoiding the necessity of lying in conversation. If lying is very difficult, your choices basically boil down to being very open, very closed, or incoherent. Dorothy takes the "closed" option and says little. I thought for a while that it means she knows more about the past than she is letting on. So instead of lying as you say, she says nothing. But I like your explaination better. quote: She's 5 and she has seen ep. 8 right up to where we see Dorothy walk down the steps with Pero, but thats it. Let's see, theres only two episodes that I think are for fam viewing ep. 11 (minus the nutty Santa scene) and 18 (minus Beck's potty mouth). My daughter turns 8 in July and I have reservations about letting her watch it. She's seen bits and pieces but not the whole thing. She knows the characters and she knows why I like Roger Smith(hey, she's 7, not stupid!) She's begging, but I have to convince the hubby who has not watched it at all. He's sort of refusing because I like it SOOOO much.

Hmmm.... I think the only episode I wouldn't let an 8 year old watch is the one where the kid gets blown up in the church by the toy robot. That is assuming you are there to answer any questions that come up, mind!

I did very little censoring of my children's viewing, it really worked a lot better in getting conversations going to let them watch it and then discuss it with them after.

I don't think I would have kept my kids from watching BIG O at any age (except that it's on past a little kid's bedtime), unless it upset them. No harm, no foul.

Of course, I'm from the last generation of kids who were dragged off to whatever was on at the movies regardless of ratings, because there were no ratings.

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I liked the "coldness" of Dorothy toward Miguel Saldano's death.. "She refers to Saldano's last words as the, "ramblings of a dying man." Then she almost seems to mock Rogers reverence when he begins to pray... "What are you doing? Praying?" She's really snotty at first.

I wonder if that's coldness or numbness? In that scene Dorothy seems more traumatized than snotty. Her voice seems exceptionally flat and she acts as if she is angry with Soldano (for dying?).

Dorothy is quite animated when with her grandfather, but after he is killed she changes becomming emotionally flat and cynical. Her character come across as clinically depressed. Both anger and depression are part of the grieving process.

Sometimes I wonder if Dorothy has post traumatic stress disorder. She also spends a lot of time watching, almost as if she is waiting for something bad to happen. Depression and hypervigilance are two key symptoms of PTSD.

*Disclaimer* Because of my work as a therapist, I may be showing symptoms of Hammer Syndrome, (when you have a hammer everything begins to look like a nail).

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Originally posted by 6 moon dance Dorothy is quite animated when with her grandfather, but after he is killed she changes becomming emotionally flat and cynical. Her character come across as clinically depressed. Both anger and depression are part of the grieving process.

This is an interesting analysis, but it's not quite accurate. She always behaves towards Roger in the same way in the first two episodes -- before, during, and after Wayneright's death -- with three exceptions.

1. When Wayneright can see her, she's more animated, timid, and girlish. But compare this to the cold reception she give Roger backstage, immediately after her song.

2. In the two meeting scenes -- after she takes off the blindfold in Act 1 and after the rescue in Act 2, she gazes up at Roger as if love-struck.

3. Not significant, but for completeness -- when she's semiconscious in Act 2.

Which is not to say that I think that you're wrong about Dorothy having been through a psychological wringer, because I think she has. But I think the worst of it happened before Wayneright's death.

I noticed something last Saturday while watching ep. 1. When we see Dorothy 1 walking down the street, there's a shot of two cars stopped. One of the cars is a 50's Caddy! This is the only time I've seen a brand name car reference in the entire series.

I know. I watch way too much Big-O. Ha!

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[i] 2. In the two meeting scenes -- after she takes off the blindfold in Act 1 and after the rescue in Act 2, she gazes up at Roger as if love-struck.

Do you really think that Dorothy has the ability to feel love? I mean she is just an android, and imperfect copy of humankind. I think that Roger may love Dorothy, well he does, but I don't think that Dorothy is capable of full understanding, and giving affection... in any way.
What do you think about Soldono's change in heart, from madness when Roger got the wrong Dorothy, I don't even know how that would have worked, how do you kidnap a giant mech? Anyway he seems almost compassionate... maybe it was just me I was up late studying for my Semester tests.... Yeah I know you care

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Originally posted by Agamemnon Do you really think that Dorothy has the ability to feel love? I mean she is just an android, and imperfect copy of humankind. I think that Roger may love Dorothy, well he does, but I don't think that Dorothy is capable of full understanding, and giving affection... in any way.

Wait 'till you see Act 8 (MISSING CAT) or Act 18 (THE GREATEST VILLAIN). There can't be any doubt that Dorothy is capable of love or that she loves Roger, not when you've seen those episodes.

And since we don't know what Dorothy is or how her mind works, saying that "she's just an android" tells us nothing. For all we know, love and affection come more easily to androids than humans. Why not?

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Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato quote: Originally posted by Agamemnon Do you really think that Dorothy has the ability to feel love? I mean she is just an android, and imperfect copy of humankind. I think that Roger may love Dorothy, well he does, but I don't think that Dorothy is capable of full understanding, and giving affection... in any way. Wait 'till you see Act 8 (MISSING CAT) or Act 18 (THE GREATEST VILLAIN). There can't be any doubt that Dorothy is capable of love or that she loves Roger, not when you've seen those episodes. And since we don't know what Dorothy is or how her mind works, saying that "she's just an android" tells us nothing. For all we know, love and affection come more easily to androids than humans. Why not?

You left out act 26. If you manage to go through the entire series and still don't think Dorothy can love Roger act 26 will prove it. Wow. That scream still gets me everytime.

Only 1 more day left... but its on at 3:30 where I live... I caght a glimpse of the show before it... what the hell was up with that show... wierd show...

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Originally posted by Dork quote: Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato quote: Originally posted by Agamemnon Do you really think that Dorothy has the ability to feel love? I mean she is just an android, and imperfect copy of humankind. I think that Roger may love Dorothy, well he does, but I don't think that Dorothy is capable of full understanding, and giving affection... in any way. Wait 'till you see Act 8 (MISSING CAT) or Act 18 (THE GREATEST VILLAIN). There can't be any doubt that Dorothy is capable of love or that she loves Roger, not when you've seen those episodes. And since we don't know what Dorothy is or how her mind works, saying that "she's just an android" tells us nothing. For all we know, love and affection come more easily to androids than humans. Why not? You left out act 26. If you manage to go through the entire series and still don't think Dorothy can love Roger act 26 will prove it. Wow. That scream still gets me everytime.

You hit the nail right on the head, Dork. She had risen from the dead to save Roger. I can think of no great display of love than that.

Since you guys, and gals established that we don't really know how androids think or operate, how do we really know that she was dead? She seemed to operate fine without her memmories, she knew roger, and where he was. So there for doubt shoot down my theories without thinking about yours. I still cannot believe that Dorothy has some sort of love affair with Roger... It just doesn't work. Yes I am pro gay rights FYI, so don't try that... Also why wouldn't Dorothy save Roger? I think its more of a very freindly freindship than a lover affair. Also I've seen every episoid more than twice, I have almost all the second season on tape.

Isn't Act 3 on tonight? That's my favorite one.

I think it's #2.

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Originally posted by YZEtc I think it's #2.

Ok lets get the straight once and for all.

What is all this dorothy-wayneright-soldano-beck bussiness.

1) Wayneright wants to build android version of dead daugter, but needs money.

2) Remembers designs for Dorothy ones and sells them....to..... soldano?

3) He builds dorothy.

4) Soldano builds dorothy 1 using money he got from..... beck?

5) But beck kills soldano and jacks his megadeus.

6) Big o pwns it.

7) for some reason he comes for wayneright to get dorothy.

7) the reason was that Beck sees dorothy and using his underlying memories, uses it to fix up dor 1 for one last stab at getting the plates.

so the question is am I right? ANd why did Soldano care about dorothy?

And what of waynerights copper room, unfinished prototypes, Glinda, and how is he involved in everything with the senators and such?

We might as well talk about R-D too. Its pretty much established that Alex Rosewater had it reprogramed to kill all tomatoes and more importantly potential dominuses, domini, whatever. But did wayneright build it? Who reprogrammed it? Blah blah.

SEASON 2 YOU ANSWERED NOTHING!

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Originally posted by Zopwx2 SEASON 2 YOU ANSWERED NOTHING!

Actually, Season 2 did indirectly anwser a few of these questions.

In Ep 14, when Roger and Dorothy enter the late Dr. Wayneright's lab, they are forced to fight a basic type of android.

It was quite possible that Dr. Wayneright also built R.D., which could have been the prototype for Dorothy.

R.D. model 01

Dorothy model 02

And how did the capsule that had R.D. in it end up in the Subway...

Simple, after the doctor's death, Alex Rosewater had the doctor's lab raided, and they found R.D. turned off in her capsule, who was probably had a unstable personality to begin with. After reprograming her, Alex probably had Alan Gabriel, or someone, dump the capsule in the subway, where R.D. reactivated and went on her programed killing rampage.

Acts 1 and 2 are particularly weird because no one who knows anything ever tells Roger a damned thing, and Roger is the viewpoint character through almost the entire two episodes.

In my opinion, Beck showed up late to the party to steal Dorothy 1, and scooped up R. Dorothy either (a) to force her to help him with Dorothy 1 (since the two Dorothies are clearly telepathic on some level), or simply to provide him with a "Dorothy" for the hostage exchange.

Beck knows enough about robots and androids to jury-rig them, but it should be obvious that, if Beck were the purchaser, jury-rigging would not be necessary. Beck cased Soldano's operation enough that he could manage Dorothy 1 after stealing her, and R. Dorothy as well, but there's no reason to believe that he paid for their construction or that they were built for him. You don't have to steal what's already yours.

Dorothy had no positive feelings towards Soldano. In the hostage-exchange scene, she ignored him entirely. As he lay dying, she either reacted neutrally or took offense when he called her his daughter -- take your pick. She reacts strongly to Wayneright. From this, I have to conclude that Soldano may have had a hand in constructing Dorothy, and may have grown fond of her, but her affections were centered on Wayneright.

A very important point, often overlooked, is that Dastun has a file that mentions Dorothy's death, "during whatever happened 40 years ago."

If she had died before the Event, there would not be a record of it, since all the records were wiped out. If she had died immediately after the Event, there would probably not be a record either, because things must have been too chaotic for things like police reports and properly maintained filing systems. She must have died long enough after the Event that public services had been set up again. This would mean that Wayneright would retain memories of his daughter, since they had some time together after the amnesia and before her death.

If she did not live long after the Event, a recording made of her personality before the Event and one made after it would be pretty much the same; both would have the same amnesia. The difference would be the recollection of however many weeks had passed between the Event and the recording.

I lean towards the theory that Dorothy is based on a pre-Event recording, which means she woke up with no memories of people or events AT ALL. She'd have her old habits of thought, so she'd react to things the way she always didn, but she wouldn't know where these behaviors came from. One can hardly imagine a more profound identity crisis than waking up as an android and not being able to remember one's human past at all!

Beck's use of Dorothy 1 is consistent for a crook but not a robot purchaser. He plans to use Dorothy 1 to steal the printing plates, which apparently are supposed to go into the back of his van so he can make a getaway. The robot is too big to hide and too slow to use as an escape vehicle unless he plans on leaving the country. Big O's underground transport system and the Terror that keeps people from following it back to Smith Manor are the only things that keep everyone in town from knowing where Big O is.

How much does Dorothy grieve for Wayneright? We are never given any hint of this, one way or the other.

By the way, it's important to note that Roger never objects to Dorothy's presence in the house. He never, ever, implies that she doesn't belong there. He bitches and moans when she does stuff to irritate him, but his method of dealing with this are always indirect; take her to Instro in the hope of making her treat the piano with more respect, for instance. He's already attached to Dorothy by the end of Act 2, even though his head is filled with the nonsensical Paradigm prejudices about androids, such as the idea that they're unemotional.

I want to know exactly how beck got involved with soldano and wayneright in the first place.

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Originally posted by Zopwx2 I want to know exactly how beck got involved with soldano and wayneright in the first place.

It seems to me that Paradigm has quite the thriving underworld... so if you need some things done, there are ways of getting in touch...

Beck was really portrayed as a small-time hood in those first few episodes, he was probably trying to make a name for himself.

There are 2 dorothies? Is the first one salderno like it said in act 1? Or something...

Dorothy 1 : That Giant Pink Robot

Dorothy Wayneright (2): The Android

R-D:

spoiler (highlight to read):

See act 12 :-)