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Speaking of things belonging to the Paradigm Corp. Did anyone else notice that the Paradigm logo was stamped into the base of Big Duo's cockpit?

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Originally posted by Wingnut Speaking of things belonging to the Paradigm Corp. Did anyone else notice that the Paradigm logo was stamped into the base of Big Duo's cockpit?

I noticed it on one of my earlier viewings of The Big Fight. It's an interesting touch. It shows they're trying to control Big Duo by putting their brand on him and making him "theirs".

Did anyone else notice that Roger says something like "the nightmare that Gordon Rosewater wanted to bring to pass must not be fulfilled" or something like that?

I don't think they meant Gordon. Did you all see that?

I also like the "hauting" of Big Duo by Schwartzwald. Anything to freak out Alan is okay in my book.

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Originally posted by Rekkoha Oh, that beautiful scene at the end of The Big Fight. "wait for me..." I found it so sweet, hopeless romantic that I am. I think when Roger said those words it could have been his way of saying "don't worry. I'll come back. Wait here and I'll return." Alan Gabriel in Big Duo?! So wrong! Get out of Schwarzy's chair you pervert!! Go hook yourself up to a toaster or something!!

Don't feel alone. This big dumb cowboy here is something of a hopeless romantic, myself.

My interpretation was, "Wait for me (I'm coming to get you as soon as I can load up some kick-ass retaliation)!" I know, if I was finally getting the idea that Dorothy was more than just an android to me, and I was recognizing emotion for her that I could no longer deny, I would want to try to encourage her to not give up.

I enjoyed watching Alan Gabriel get his. I replayed it for the simple satisfaction of muttering, "That's what you get for taking potshots at R. Dorothy."

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Originally posted by cowboyardee I enjoyed watching Alan Gabriel get his. I replayed it for the simple satisfaction of muttering, "That's what you get for taking potshots at R. Dorothy."

Same here, pardner. I would've liked to have seen Big O grind Gabriel into the pavement, but his death at the hands of Big Duo and his true dominuce was deservedly painful.

I typed this up last night on my compie. Word claims I spent 90 minutes on it. @_@

“The Big Fight”

“I chase after people who’ve left, people who have been taken away.. But this time, it’s-“

Ah, Roger, you perpetual never-finisher-of-sentences, you. Come on now, we all know what you were going to say; ‘but this time it’s personal’. I know it, you know it, and right now as we speak Beck’s having the flier printed out.

Personal, Roger, personal. Say it with me; ‘per-son-al’, not ‘personnel’ but ‘personal’.

You’re a tomato, she’s an android, you’re made for each other. The thing you should be worried about is that she’s barely legal. That’s your real moral dilemma if you ask me.

-----------------------------------
I thought the spoilers had prepared me for Roger's little confession but they didn’t even provide so much as a buffer. That was absolutely the most anti-sweet coma confessional I have ever seen. EVER. Just makes you want to reach through the screen and punch him in the gut. I said ‘want’, if it were possible to converse with a fictional character I think I’d go for the overly-done eye roll and a ‘God, Roger, you are an idiot’.


So I guess my question is: Does Roger really think that (“if you were a human and *not* an android we might’ve fallen in love”) or is he still in denial? I read somewhere that the creator of Big O wanted the Roger/Dorothy relationship to be an unrequited love thing, but does that still apply? Are the two of them just not meant to be?

My cultured pessimistic nature says ‘yes’, but the facts don’t point to it. Roger’s a tactician, but in the battle with Big Duo Inferno /inpherno?/ he just goes in swinging. After the battle, after taking a look-over at Big O he leaves with cold single-mindedness, brushing off his long time friend and leaving Big O in the middle of the street, presumably for Norman to clean up, then there’s his “but this time it’s-“ lead off line. And that’s only in this episode.

On a side note, I’m starting to get a little ticked with these cut off sentences. It’s not good writing, it’s lame as hell. It has about the same effect on the audience as flashing on the screen in orange and blue letters: “Guess what, folks? He’s in love with her! Even though he says he’s not! How spiffy is that? But we’ve decided that you’re too stupid to figure it out on your own with the evidence we’ve provided so we’re JUST GOING TO TELL YOU! How ya like dem apples!?”

Okay, admittedly in real life people do not finish every sentence they say or think. When it comes to thinking you might even abandon a thought mid-sentence several dozen or hundred times a day for any number of reasons, including the ‘I don’t like where this is going’. But this is not real life. I mean, if you’re going to cut someone off mid-sentence only do it once per topic. This is twice that Roger has been cut-off during the subject of his views on his relationship with Dorothy, it feels a bit like being hit over the head repeatedly with a strike poster.

Anywho, back to Big O.

Who thinks Dastun’s going to join to union?

The femme fatale always brings down the man who loves her (or in the case of ‘China Town’ scars him for life). Always. It’s one of those things.

Without the support and attention of Roger Smith it looks like some of our characters are falling apart at the seams. Kinda ironic, these people’s stabilizing force is a man who spazzed out about tomatoes for a good two episodes.

But you know, sometimes not having your stabilizing force is a good thing. Dan’s trailing a couple of memory-voyeur kids and although Angel’s life is getting more bizarre by the minute she’s also turning into a wonderfully sympathetic character. At this point she could probably shoot Dorothy and I’d find a way to forgive her. You just have to love anyone who’s lost in their own world.

It looks like the events of the last few episodes (from act 20) have occurred in the space of only a few days. At the very most a week, at the least I’d say 3 days. I can’t see Roger waiting more than the next morning after getting Angel’s message until going after her, plus Angel’s still wondering the streets and it doesn’t look like she’s gotten too far. Finding out that Roger’s interested in Dorothy, almost letting her rival die, and abandoning the union really seems to have screwed with Angel’s head. Reminds me of Roger in act 14.

Anywho, pretty good episode.

Tomorrow: Big O dvds come out! Yea!

muchlove
-Dork

I totally agree with incomplete sentences. A couple happened in "Twisted Memories" as well. When Roger is asking Dorothy if they should go look for her. Dorothy says a few words , but then doesn't finish what she's going to say. "That woman..." what? WHAT?
I'm not sure he's in denial. He is in love with her and that's as close as he's going to come to saying so. Had he found her in one piece would he be able to say the same thing? It's easy to say things to people when they're not really there.
So I wait until 10pm to watch this thing and by 10:30 I'm a frustrated person going "ARG, these people are yanking my chain!"

I thought Dorothy was almost going to tell Roger about what happened in the tunnel (Grand Central Station?) in 'Twisted Memories'. I don't know for sure if that's what she going to say but I'm glad that she didn't tell him. Doesn't fit her character.

I really should give Roger some slack. The poor guy's gone through a lot in the past couple of days. With everything else he really is too stressed to have to think out how he feels about Dorothy. In a very short amount of time his life has gone hell. I keep expecting him to have a heart attack.

Big O comes on at 10 where you live? ::is jealous:: wow


-dork

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Originally posted by Dork Well, it’s official, I’m back to ‘God, I hate you, Roger Smith’ mode. I thought the spoilers had prepared me for this episode but they didn’t even provide so much as a buffer. That was absolutely the most anti-sweet coma confessional I have ever seen. EVER. Just makes you want to reach through the screen and punch him in the gut. I said ‘want’, if it were possible to converse with a fictional character I think I’d go for the overly-done eye roll and a ‘God, Roger, you are an idiot’.

That speech was supposed to show you Roger's hidden personality just like Big Fau exposed Alex's. Roger is usually cool and collected but when it comes to some matters (love, his identity, Alan), his rational demeanor goes out the window. Everyone thinks he's so suave but in many ways, he's quite insecure. Alex is insecure as well but he's also tries to satisfy his immaturity instead of overcoming it as Roger does.

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So I guess my question is: Does Roger really think that (“if you were a human and *not* an android we might’ve fallen in love”) or is he still in denial? I read somewhere that the creator of Big O wanted the Roger/Dorothy relationship to be an unrequited love thing, but does that still apply? Are the two of them just not meant to be?

It seems that way. Wait till after the series. I'll be interested to see if you think the same way or not.

As for the incomplete sentences, they are annoying at times but also very indicative of the characters' sentiments and motivations. I have no problem with them, although the other people should at least once in a while say "What? What were you saying?"

About The Big Fight :

The thing about Roger's crummy attempt at answering Dorothy's innocent question from way back in #9 that has bugged me from the first second I saw and heard it is that even when she's out colder than a witch's...err...well...even when she can't hear him, he still can't bring himself to answer the actual question.
That question was:
"If you and I lost our memories and we met...so...would you and I fall in love as well?"
This was asked to Roger after Wise had spilled his guts to both Roger and Dorothy as he explained what the pair had figured-out about his son, and it really tripped Roger up.

What Roger did was completely skirt around the issue of Dorothy being an android by adding the bogus "...if you had been human..." part.

Maybe Roger would claim that he misunderstood the question, but I just think that he was being a big chicken, again.

Roger does and says other things in the episode that are quite endearing. Unfortunatly, his confession kinda overshadows them.

But you're right, it was meant to show Roger's insecurities. He's having a bit of trouble with the relationship, but that's okay. He's under a lot of pressure.

I kinda spazzed out myself with that post, sorry!

It takes me awhile to think over the little things in the episodes.

-dork

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Originally posted by YZEtc About The Big fight : The thing about Roger's crummy attempt at answering Dorothy's innocent question from way back in #9 that has bugged me from the first second I saw and heard it is that even when she's out colder than a witch's...err...well...even when she can't hear him, he still can't bring himself to answer the actual question. That question was: "If you and I lost our memories and we met...so...would you and I fall in love as well?" This was asked to Roger after Wise had spilled his guts to both Roger and Dorothy as he explained what the pair had figured-out about his son, and it really tripped Roger up. What Roger did was completely skirt around the issue of Dorothy being an android by adding the bogus "...if you had been human..." part. Maybe Roger would claim that he misunderstood the question, but I just think that he was being a big chicken, again.

really though-

i was wondering where the hell "if you were a human?" came from, that wasnt the question Roger-boy

I guess maybe he was thinking about how Dorothy existed 40 years ago, the real Dorothy anyhow

i dunno, Roger is too complex

he should be more like me and have a sad catgirl fetish

Dork, I think you're right. Roger is very slow on the uptake where he own romantic feelings are concerned, and this is maddening. He's coming along, but with such glacial speed that you want to hit him with a brick.

One thing I admire about him, though, is that he's loyal to his pals even when he doesn't have a clue what category they belong in. He has realized that Angel isn't going to be his girlfriend, but he'll go to great lengths to save her anyway. He hasn't a clue about his own relationship with Dorothy, but he goes berserk when bad things happen to her. His heart's in the right place. It's just that his brain's a little slow.

I'm not sure he's the sort of guy who could come right out and say "I love you" even if he had no mental conflict at all. He's an old-fashioned tough guy that way, I think.

Before Dorothy i imagine that Roger didnt have many relationships, and when they did, they probably werent very...well...long lasting..

of course, lo' and behold, here comes this android chick, sarcastic as hell and messes up your routine, but hey, she cooks and looks good in skintight( or is it metal tight) clothing

Not bad...

oh and dont forget that maybe in a lifetime before your own, you two maybe have been lovers, cant forget that now can we?

I he may not have said "I love you Baby, and if you were awake, i'd rock your world", but i dunno, Roger would raise hell and high water against anyone who try to harm Dorothy

So maybe they could start from there

*shrugs*

I feel compelled to come to ol' Roger's defense.

It wasn't fair of Dorothy to ask, "If we lost our memories, and you and I just met, would we have fallen in love?" Isn't that what happened? Roger doesn't remember her from any time in the past, and she doesn't remember anything either, when they first met. Sure, the attraction was there, but they still didn't know each other. Is this not the same? She's thinking of the now, but if they lost their memories and did not have the same relationship built up as they did, it would put them right back at square on.

He puts it to the more apropo: "If you had been human..." To me, he sounds like he's getting closer and closer to the ultimate revelation, "To heck with whether you're an android or not; let's merge your circuits with my tomatos!" Read into that what you will (and shame on you if you think like me!!)

But, he's still uncertain about her ability to feel the kind of emotion he would feel. Take it from me, falling in love with someone who doesn't or can't feel the same way about you really sucks.

And, Roger's a man of the world. His rule about allowing in female callers pretty much hints that Rog is not a monk. See how he came on to Dorothy from the start before he learned she was an android? See how he came on to Angel at every turn? He was even ready to bound up the stairs and toy about with the senator's wife until he found out she was definately not his type (young and pretty.)

Maybe since he doesn't have intimate knowledge of Dorothy's capabilities (and how's he gonna find out w/o being a REAL ass) he's cautious about leading our favorite android on. Would they both enjoy any measure of fulfillment?

Listen, when it comes to rationalizations, I'm the champ. As they say in The Big Chill:
"Don't knock rationalization. It's more important than sex."
"Aw, nothing's more important than sex!"
"Wanna bet? Ever go a week without a rationalization?"

But I digress. You go, Roger!

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Originally posted by cowboyardee It wasn't fair of Dorothy to ask, "If we lost our memories, and you and I just met, would we have fallen in love?" Isn't that what happened? Roger doesn't remember her from any time in the past, and she doesn't remember anything either, when they first met. Sure, the attraction was there, but they still didn't know each other. Is this not the same? She's thinking of the now, but if they lost their memories and did not have the same relationship built up as they did, it would put them right back at square on.

Well, what I think she was trying to work out was whether the attraction between Wise and Mary would have happened between any man and woman who'd just lost their memories, or whether it was something peculiar to Wise. Remember her first two questions to Roger earlier asked if people get that lonely, and if Wise had really fallen in love out of loneliness. It's not out of the question that she was feeling lonely without Pero and wondered if the attraction she was feeling for Roger was a reaction to that loss.

Dorothy is very tender of Roger's feelings. She could have told him straight out that she was in love with him at the end of "Beck Comes Back", but his head was not acting in synch with his actions at that point. He had only recently been treating her as a person, not a mechanism (see his apology in "Missing Cat" for laughing at her attachment to Pero). Later, in "Daemonseed," she dodges the implied question of Oliver's "You two would make a great couple." She will not confront Roger directly, but keeps chipping away at his wall until she's undermined it completely.

That's my take on the scene.

Pygmalion

"Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead" with robots.

That's all I got right now.

That and Roger's the poster child for road rage. He was even more reckless on the road than usual. Our protagionist is deffinitly t-ed off.


-dork

Two questions from me about this episode:

1) We hear Schwartzwald go on about the giants who formed this world livng in chains. "But the chains are the cunning of weak and tame minds which have power to resist energy." Huh? I went to college, how come I can't get this? Is he talking about people like Roger, people who no matter how they were brought into the world are going to live it their way?

2) Beck comes in looking at Dorothy and says,"Damnit all". About what? He's not feeling bad for her, is he? Or does he realize he just helped bring about the reset? Naa, he knew that already talking to Alex.

Yes Alex, you are a Spoiled Rotten Tomato. So there! phhhtt

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Originally posted by madrona Two questions from me about this episode: 1) We hear Schwartzwald go on about the giants who formed this world livng in chains. "But the chains are the cunning of weak and tame minds which have power to resist energy." Huh? I went to college, how come I can't get this? Is he talking about people like Roger, people who no matter how they were brought into the world are going to live it their way? 2) Beck comes in looking at Dorothy and says,"Damnit all". About what? He's not feeling bad for her, is he? Or does he realize he just helped bring about the reset? Naa, he knew that already talking to Alex.

1) I think Schwartzwald's statement was along the lines of "society is only as strong as its weakest link."

2) I think after his confrontation with Roger as the mansion was stormed, and then observing both Alex and Gabriel, Beck knew he had thrown in with two madmen. I think Beck returned to the mansion in the hopes of making things right. Maybe he thought Roger would still be there and he could tell him what Alex was planning. Or perhaps he thought he could "wake up" Dorothy.