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Roger's flashbacks seem to be memories of his previous self, the Maj. Roger Smith who died just before the last Event (and presumably, many times before that, if there have indeed been many Events in the past). I've often wondered whether it's Big O himself who's calling up those memories within Roger, or if they just well up on their own.

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Originally posted by Jane Last night was the first time I saw Hydra all the way through and now I'm majorly mixed up. Why does Roger have those flashbacks during battle? It doesn't seem to fit in with what happened during Act:26, unless it's just another false memory that Roger has to discard before he can confront Angel?

Personally, Jane, I believe that Roger is a tomato of the real Roger Smith!

I think that 40 years ago, Roger Smith was a major in the military police. Perhaps the United States turned into a facist government and city police departments were united into a nationwide military police department. (insert your Republican jokes here )

Anyway, the Megadeus War began with Big O's battling Big Duos, Hydras, and Big Fau's. The war was devestating. Big Venus, the ultimate weapon is unleased and destroys most of civilization. The only combatants left were a Big O, with Roger piloting it; one Big Duo, and one Big Fau. New York City is about to be rebuilt by the Paradigm Corporation and Roger Smith is appointed the city negotiator. Somehow he dies and his genes are used to create a replacement, and that replacement is the Roger we know.

So I think that Roger has memories of his childhood in the lab and the memories of the orignial Roger. I don't believe that Paradigm City is on this clock where things are reset.

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Originally posted by Bentar quote: Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato ...On the other hand, the whole Bonaparte sequence was sort of bogus. I mean, the robots had been shot to hell by Roger, then all their useful parts had been cannibalized, so how did they manage to reassemble into a new robot whose parts all fitted perfectly, and who in addition had the use of an anomalous levitation technology? (Speaking with my writer's hat on, some parts of Season 2 were pretty lax. The Bonaparte self-assembly sequence was poorly conceived and out of keeping with the rest of the show -- almost as glaring as the "Big O bursts through the skyscraper, killing hundreds and ending up in a place where he's completely useless and has to go right back down again" in ENEMY IS ANOTHER BIG.) I agree - the 'levitation' tech seemed exceptionally badly used - the Union, bottem-feeding tech 'scavengers' that they are, were the only ones with that highly advanced tech? Not to mention how silly the body parts looked floating around. That was one of those 'so dumb it takes you out of the story' scenes. On a side note, I know its highly unlikely, but I've always preferred to think of most of the buildings in Paradigm City as being unoccupied - for example, the aforementioned building in Enemy is Another Big could have been completely deserted, with the exception of the suite Schwarzwald was using (along with a couple of staff). Lame excuse, I know.

Stop reminding me! I try to ignore all these dumb little things or try to rationalize them in my head somehow, or replacing them with my own made up version that doesn't change the story.


I've always wondered, if there was a megadeus war, WHy was there a megdeus war?

Megadeii are probably the most ill concieved form of warfare. Unless there is some purpose or meaning for them.

Plus who was fighting who? Paradigm is meant to look like NY, but in the flashbacks the Big's were Invading NY.

soooooo if new york is still on the side of the US then the bigs must come from outside... unless they were recapturing the island... for whatever reason.. The USA used the leviathan archetypes? or ... umm

.I'm just going in circles and making stuff up now, I guess we'll never know.

In responce to what Zopwx2 said, it is possible that the entire army of Bigs marched off to some foreign land, a counter offensive was launched and they were recalled to retake their homeland. Would explain Fau being destroyed and left to rot in the wasteland as it was abandoned in the war. Who knows, the Bigs seem superior to the other Megadei and something a strong nation would build but it would take time. Dorothy one took a month. A lesser weapon might be easier to build with similar production capabilities. It might be possible that the lessers were a quick way to gain a numers advantage. Many nations with different models of everything could have attacked for all we know. Venus seemed to have cleared away most of the remains if the memories we saw truely happened at one point or another.

Duo was overlooked. I have to believe that such buried or forgoten relics weren't clensed with the world because they weren't as obvious to find or spot in a short rush. I think Paradigm one way or another a quick fix to saving human civilization before it was utterly destroyed. Venus was used, but it could have been a calculated risk taken for that reason. Such power could easily have fallen out of control and whatever the true powers it had shaped the new world. If it was grand destruction on a massive scale or restoration starting with one city, who knows?

A Megadeus seems to be an effective war weapon in some ways to me. Duo and Fau in their respective elements seemed good yet Big O could get up to speed when running. Who knows what an army of charging Bigs would do in regaurds to phycological trauma. Yet, by inertia alone they can topple a city while being armored to survive a beating. Depends on if the 30 meter vs 200 feet thing for Bigs can be resolved. I prefer the latter.

The levitation bit seems awkward. We saw the thing had jets to lift itself like the Beck bots and how Duo picked itself up yet with them I still don't find it alll plausable. Sure, it lifted the entire weight up and we saw two blue jets, but...... The parts alone were lighter. I do think the Union scrounged up some tech savvy people. They built three beck like robots and they also built a cyborg or so it may be assumed(until I see otherwise, I don't think anyone besides Eugene could have done anything like that and he seemed to much a leader and a loner at that to me). A giant walking bomb seems to have been dumbed down as anything more may have impeded explosions. I noticed beck on his own varies in style depeneding on what materials are at hand. Beck Victory DX vs. Great Beck RX3. Seems when he was alone he did so much less then with aid. Must not be that hard for a giant robot. I believe the Bonepart was remote operated and ment to intimidate Roger. We saw with Constantze that that communication by both audio and video means was easily possible with technology one mad scientist could produce. With all the people building new age giant robots, if they pooled together they would be hard to stop if Eugene or Rosewater was to back them. If Beck only had time to reverse engineer Big Fau before it got nearly halfed. I would want to see if he could begin to remake any part of it besides the core memory.

My question is, did Eugene's discovered memories or information fall into the hands of Alex or did he dredge up the Electric City scientist to remake the Hydra as it was? Again, memories though elusive seemed quite wasted by the conditions of the minds of many who re/aquired them. I especially question the tomatoes and Dorothy. All of them seem to go through some mental breakdown or blank moments if they were the ones who got any legnth of airtime. Eugene used a Museum, Gordon used a library, Big Duo was at an airport, and Big O was in a Bank. Something seems fishy. Where did Gordon get the ability to produce tomatoes anyways? Again with the questions. Alex seemed to have gained the "playing god" syndrome from Gordon's transplanted memories during the tomato days and it subconsciously drove him nuts as he always obsessed over those memories, gaining more and yet he had them all along. Alex still seemed the new King of finding all the intell on others was though with his resourses. Why he didn't figure things out before the Barcode in Fau is paradoxical. Seems like Gordon's goals here backfired, he knows it and what Alex is doing yet is trying to repent guiding Roger more closely again also because he gets the metaphor speak thing.

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Originally posted by BigPrime Roger's flashbacks seem to be memories of his previous self, the Maj. Roger Smith who died just before the last Event (and presumably, many times before that, if there have indeed been many Events in the past). I've often wondered whether it's Big O himself who's calling up those memories within Roger, or if they just well up on their own.

My theory is that electroshock brings up these past memories.

And that Beck regained some memories when he was electrocuted in The Greatest Villain.

But there are some holes in that theory...

Narsham

The main problem with that theory is that Beck also seemed to know Roger's identity back in Act 9, or it's at least alluded to, judging by his comments in that episode. The only reason Roger is surprised by this in Act 18 is because up until then he didn't know Beck knew.

As for the Hydra, it definitly seems to have been modified ala one of Eugene's creations, with the extra heads and the regeneration factor. Plus the scientist from Act 3 was pretty displeased with the Paradigm Corp., so I doubt he would've worked with them again. It would also explain why the Paradigm Corp. funded Eugene in the first place, so that he could re-create the Hydra better then before.

Speaking of which, those aren't Hydras in Roger's flashbacks, they're Leviathans, like the Leviathan from Act 17. If you look close enough you can see that they're mechanical, not to mention that in another flashback later on you see a close-up of a Big O holding what's definitly a Leviathan head in its hand. The fact that there were mass-produced Leviathans during the Megadeus War would also explain why so much of the area outside Paradigm is sand.

Yes, things are moving right along, now, at a fever pitch.
There are only three episodes left after this one, so something's gonna' happen real soon, and we'll all know what this story's all about, right?

Right?...

I'm sorry, but the freaky little nursery-rhyme-that-doesn't-rhyme Angel's mommy tells her in her flashback just doesn't sound like something a little kid is likely to remember - let alone want to even hear.
The lines my mom tells me in my flashbacks are much better than that.

Alan seems pretty sure of himself when he taunts Vera with the shocking (to her) news that there aren't even any memories to get your knickers all soiled about, so why sweat it?
So, what is it, then?
Are there or aren't there?
I really doubt that anyone in Paradigm knows.

One thing that Alex knows is that his dad has been out in the artificial sun a wee bit too long.
"Hmmm.
Should I put my old man in a home for the senile, or should I torch the place and not bother?"
Yeah, he must be senile; he doesn't even budge as his crop fields blaze around him.

Is that snow on the roof of the Bank?
Hmm.
It wasn't that long ago that Roger and Dorothy were running around at night beneath the stars with the top down.
One day, I'll take note of the weather conditions in every single episode in an effort to determine how many season changes there are throughout the series.

The whole sequence of the Scorpion robot attack on the Mansion was pretty good - not to mention featuring a damn good shot tucked away within it that makes a pretty cool banner.
That shot of Big O's face and posture after punching through the wall is a classic moment, I think.

When the Master of the Bank demolishes the whole side of his home, you know that he's not messing around, and Roger sure looked like he was working the anchor chain's control joystick for all he was worth.
You just gotta' appreciate a guy that puts out an effort.

You also gotta' appreciate the fact that this episode ended on a pretty strong cliffhanging note, with the way Dorothy was sucessfully plucked from the Bank like that.

Hmm.
Looks like this is done just in time for that next episode, too.

Well, I started watching Big O relatively late in the series the first time around. I finished watching season one soon after Christmas, and have finally gotten to see the final episodes *in order.*

To add to ACTs observations about Roger's relationship with Dorothy, it also seems like Roger gets the most riled up whenever anyone threatens her.

I like Angel a lot more this time around. She annoyed me at first, but the character has really grown on me. There's just something so vintage about her style and personality... and part of the reason why I love this series so much is because of its ability to incorporate retro art and stereotypes with a futuristic storyline.

I'm wondering what the letter to Roger from Schwarzvald contains; I'm sure those in charge of the 2nd season wouldn't leave it to a guess. This leads me to think that the narrative played during Big Duo's ascension is really a reading of that letter.

This is my first time watching the whole thing in order too, and now I'm really confused. Did Rosewater try to burn his dad alive? How did Gordan get away? Where exactly was the tunnel Angel was in at the end? If the Union planes are just stage lights, why are they in a V pattern and why didn't we see them before Vera, um, made something explode?

And boy do I love/hate Jason Beck after this. I guess he was threatened with execution, but how could he do that to Dorothy! But even though Alan Gabriel thinks he's smoother, it seems Beck is the one who's got the street smarts.

And we get to see Swartzvald! (spelling?) The dude who just won't die!

And Man, Roger sure does look pretty as he and Big O reach out towards Dorothy. Man! He just got up the guts to give the girl flowers and now she's commatose. And speaking of Dorothy, the girl's not a wimp, what is it about confrontation with other robots that makes her go all wacky?

Big O makes me need Advil.

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Originally posted by Jane This is my first time watching the whole thing in order too, and now I'm really confused. Did Rosewater try to burn his dad alive? How did Gordan get away? Where exactly was the tunnel Angel was in at the end? If the Union planes are just stage lights, why are they in a V pattern and why didn't we see them before Vera, um, made something explode?

Yes. We don't know. We don't know. We don't know.

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And speaking of Dorothy, the girl's not a wimp, what is it about confrontation with other robots that makes her go all wacky?

Megadeuses seem to have some ability to control her mind (though apparently not if she's inside Big O). In addition, her sense of self-defense seems stangely impaired. She rarely does much to save herself unless told to, and isn't good at it even then.

Were the "divine thunderbolts raining down from the heavens" union bombs or falling stage lights?

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Originally posted by Piano Black Were the "divine thunderbolts raining down from the heavens" union bombs or falling stage lights?

I think at first they wanted us to believe they were union bombs..

But I think that in the end the only thing that fell on paradigm city was dislodged stagelight debris, shot down by alex and the miliatary police.

spoiler (highlight to read):

According the Gordon the union was very insignificant and most likley didnt even have the rescources to bomb paradigm. Plus we never see the planes or any evidence to show they ever existed. Except for a few vague shots of "somthing" in the sky..... even though they were triangular...

From tonight's episode:

"This city! The thought of this rediculous room being here... it makes me laugh."

I here you Vera, I hear you.

Did anyone notice that the font for "Act 25" was different than the others?

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Originally posted by Piano Black Did anyone notice that the font for "Act 25" was different than the others?

I did.... but didnt think it was a big deal.....

Maybe it is?

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Originally posted by Zopwx2 quote: Originally posted by Piano Black Did anyone notice that the font for "Act 25" was different than the others? I did.... but didnt think it was a big deal..... Maybe it is?

lol it isn't a big deal at all. I just noticed it and wanted to point it out.

What better way to start the episode than with a fight, huh?
Matches the title pretty well, I think.
However, I sometime feel that the actual fight could have been a bit...umm...bigger.
Well, I guess it technically is a Big fight since there are two Bigs fighting, on the other hand.
All-in-all, an informative episode - although I would not want to be the one in charge of repairing the streets of Paradigm after this one.

I'm a bit surprised that Alan took Alex up on his offer of piloting Big Duo for the afternoon.
If the guy that I was plotting against behind his back offered me a ride in a Big for the day, I would be veeeeeeeeery wary, indeed.
And, for a dead guy, Schwarzwald sure gets around.

It's always struck me as a bit odd how Roger reacts to the downtown traffic jam he encounters after the fight while going to look for Dorothy:
He's driving along, thinking about how he's always chasing after people that have been taken away from him, and basically feeling in a This-Is-The-Last-Straw! mood.
Then, he comes to a stop and merely sticks his head out the window, saying nonchalantly, "I wonder what's going on", just as if he were crusing back to work after a lunch break.
Weird.
I'd have thought that he'd be laying on the horn or launching missiles out the front of the Griffon, considering the circumstances.
Once he sees Dorothy up on that roof being blown about by the breeze, however, he snaps out of it and rips off his sunglasses.

Akk.
He misquoted Dorothy's question from #9, Beck Comes Back.
I'm glad that I didn't count on that question resurfacing later in the series like it did, only to be let down with Roger blowing the line.
Sorry, Roger, but you are dodging the issue.

The first time I saw this episode, I wondered what kind of juicy information we were in for when Angel emerged into a TV studio.
Same with Dastun's trip into the movie theatre.

Silly boy.
Tricks are for kids; I was soooooo young and naive back then.

* * * * * * * * *

The War of Paradigm City - Divine Thunderbolts, Vera Cracks the Whip, and the Whole Damn Town's Going to Hell in a Basket

The first time around, I felt sure that I would learn so much about this story and this far-out, futuristic society called Paradigm City - especially when the giant overhead lights were revealed.
"Surely", I thought, "this has got to be the mother lode that will explain it all!"
Nope.

How the heck did Gordon get into that chair without Angel knowing about it until he cleared his throat?
Was she so deep in thought that the old buzzard was able to scuff his old feet onto that TV set and take a seat without being heard?

I can understand the concept of Gordon trying to revive memories through some manner of unorthodox experimentation.
I imagine he and his contemporaries were desperate enough to try it.
But why do the results have to be called tomatoes?
And Vera may be a good cook and pretty handy with a whip, and all, but tomato soup just doesn't seem like the kind of hearty meal that you'd have while roughing it inside a cabin.

It's too bad that Schwarzwald didn't spend a little time steering Big Duo, even if he is supposedly deceased.
We might have learned something valuable to go along with his
trademark bombastic ranting.

Who needs to carry a gun when you have a copy of Metropolis in hand?

Roger walked into himself when this was happening.



It reminded me of Big O and Big Venus walking into eachother.

The Big Duo Inferno fight may have been cool, but Alan is a tactical nincompoop. He only attacks once from the air, and that's what Duo was BUILT FOR. Schwarzwald spent all of his time either in the air or in a position of complete land dominace in the fight, and he was pretty much unscratched until Roger defied physics. To have one of those chains (which Beck Victory Deluxe's lasers, which bounced off the rest of Big O, could cut) hold up all of Big O's weight is DEFINITELY a protagonist-only ability.

Meanwhile, Alan charges into the fray, gets pretty much everything between him and the air blown off by missiles -that have only damaged unarmored megadeuses in the past-, gets Duo's head ripped off.. very bad moves all around.