Discuss the Current Episode

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Originally posted by BigPrime quote: There were a couple of things that bothered me. If Tammy can't play outside during the day presumably because of poor air quality, why would she be able to do so with debris from a space satellite polluting the air? Didn't her grandfather also say something about not going in out in the sun? Well, there is no sun in Paradigm! Tammy has a sunlight allergy, or more specifically, a UV radation allergy. Even persistant cloudcover like that of Paradigm doesn't stop UV radiation during the day, so she can't go outside then (Hence the pale skin) And she's too young to really go outside at night often. So she's spent her young life almost entirely indoors. Really sad, when you think about it. Combine that with the apparent loss of both parents...poor girl. Its' good that she found a friend in R. Dorothy Wayneright. I think she really needed one.

Indeed, it's too bad we didn't have more time in the series to see Dorothy with little Tammy more often. How would someone get such a condition? Does said condition exist in the real world?

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Originally posted by Wingnut quote: Originally posted by BigPrime quote: There were a couple of things that bothered me. If Tammy can't play outside during the day presumably because of poor air quality, why would she be able to do so with debris from a space satellite polluting the air? Didn't her grandfather also say something about not going in out in the sun? Well, there is no sun in Paradigm! Tammy has a sunlight allergy, or more specifically, a UV radation allergy. Even persistant cloudcover like that of Paradigm doesn't stop UV radiation during the day, so she can't go outside then (Hence the pale skin) And she's too young to really go outside at night often. So she's spent her young life almost entirely indoors. Really sad, when you think about it. Combine that with the apparent loss of both parents...poor girl. Its' good that she found a friend in R. Dorothy Wayneright. I think she really needed one. Indeed, it's too bad we didn't have more time in the series to see Dorothy with little Tammy more often. How would someone get such a condition? Does said condition exist in the real world?

There are actually a few different sunlight allergies, IIRC. Some are temporary rashes and such. I can remember hearing of some severe ones (like what Tammy seems to have). Porphyria can have sunlight sensitive effects, for example. I think there are some other types (I can remember seeing a Discovery channel-type show on kids with severe sunlight allergies a few years back), but I can't remember exactly what they are. I guess it could be caused by just about anything. Genetics or exposure to some chemical agent could cause it, I suppose.

Another episode that wasn't bad; I can't stand up and cheer, but I can't cut it down, either.
There were enough things here that got my attention and kept me interested without going overboard on the Ragu.

How does one catch a satellite?
Easy.
Just follow these steps:

1) Barge through MP barricade like you s%@t doesn't stink while trying to obtain imformation on the strange object which fell from the heavens that you read about in the morning's paper.
Oh.
Speaking about reading the morning paper: Be sure to snub your faithful employee while she tries to engage you in conversation while at the mile-long breakfast table.
The degree of your success in this area will be directly proportional to the amount of noise she makes as she gets up and stomps off from the table in frustration.

2) Have butler ring you on wristwatch, steering you toward potential client.
Client will probably tell you about strange object from the heavens being some blessing from the devine, but don't let that stand in the way of getting him to agree to a contract.

3) Go snooping around area that you know damn well is off limits, but your curiousity gets the better of you.
When your blonde-stalker-in-pink shows up right on time, be sure to demonstrate your flashy equipment, as this gets her to disrobe every time.

4) As you argue and trade smart-ass comments with your curvacious counterpart, make mental note of three damaged Megadeuses hanging inside the facility which you snuck into while controlling with your wristwatch your big, black limo to come to your rescue - again.
Oh.
Take advantage of counterpart's lapse of concentration to learn more of her origins.

5) Head straight to the home offices of the local government, being sure to get into a big argument with the boss that will virtually assure your no longer recieving nice, cushy job offers from their headquarters.
Before you leave, have Sneaky Kitty gather information pertaining to another object falling from the cloudy sky, and throw down gauntlet, sending a clear signal to the head cheese that from here on out, it is you vs. him.
Call on Black Megadeus to rub it in.

6) As your former boss vainly tries to get the local population - some of which look and sound like they're straight out of a Robin Hood movie - to evacuate, stomp-out with Megadeus and Chromebust falling satellite.
This should slow velocity of the object enough so that you should be able to wind-up a serious piston punch and destroy the troublesome thing once and for all.
Arm of Megadeus will perhaps become deformed while performing the operation and require replacement, but, that's where your butler comes in.

7) Repeat as necessary.

On that note YZEtc, who do think got more abuse from Roger in that episode, Dorothy of Big O's right arm?
Roger quote of the episode: "Oh dear, I believe I've been scolded." Or something like that when Angel chews him out for his behavior.

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Originally posted by Zola Day of the Advent... I know a lot of people didn't care much for this episode, but I loved it because it did a lot of character development.

I disliked this episode the first time around. Maybe becuase I was caught up in the crazy rush of the ac 13-14 developments. But catching it again now, I could appreciate all the little clues and hints that are revealed in this episode.

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Originally posted by YZEtc quote: From Zopwx2: Glina was one of the few megadeii that I found scary looking. somthing about it, maybe it was the claws, or the way a gigantic heavy megadeus could jump like that. I liked it, too. Very unique in the way she looked and moved. Curvaciousness, grace, and elegance in Megadeus proportions. The way she draws her sword from the hip just knocks me out.

I wasn't a big fan of glinda, it looked freaky, and it was a little too aglie when compared to the style of robots that were introduced back in episode one. Big and slow.

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Originally posted by Pythagoras spoiler (highlight to read): Another thing. Many people here believe that Roger's world is encased in a giant dome/stage. How could one launch a satellite in such an environment? This is another thing, along with the fact that the lights dissappear as a result of Venus' resetting, that leads me to disbelieve the "mega dome" theory.

spoiler (highlight to read):

Well its not really a theory its pretty much as real as everything else in the city. (which if you think about it isn't that real). Its not necassarily a dome, but more like a series of girders and lights with 3 layers. Not a solid dome. We have pictures of it, its obvoiusly visable in acts 25,26. So how the sattelite came through wiithout destroying it and all other technical things... i duno.

Day of the Advent: Quite possibly my least favorite episode.

I just found it not entertaining at all. Plus they pushed the limit on the lame gadgets and stuff. Along with big o stopping a sattelite with his fist and the debris not causing any damage, only spraying a wonderfull glow.

Didn't we translate the word on the space fragment to mean Czar/tsar? What would that mean.

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From Wingnut: On that note YZEtc, who do think got more abuse from Roger in that episode, Dorothy of Big O's right arm?

Well, Wingnut, while Big O no doubt was subjected to some serious abuse in stopping that satellite, he at least knew full well what he was in for, and dare I say that he would have been willing to damage his arm for the sake of the people of Paradigm.
I think he was expecting that.

With poor Dorothy, she's merely trying to chat it up with the guy she's got a thing for - just like any other girl her age.
To me, that was rude, rude, rude and totally uncalled for...though this is Roger we're dealing with.

I say that Dorothy got the worst of it.

I have a few obvious questions.

Why did Schwarzvald decide to end his life?

Had the tide fallen back considerably after R-D?

Lastly, how was the Leviathan activated?

I also noticed that a dark glare was given to Angel courtesy of Dorothy at the end. I'm also happy to see that the influence of past episodes recur so heavily.

Did anyone think Dastun was drawn oddly in a few scenes?

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Originally posted by ZeaLitY I have a few obvious questions. Why did Schwarzvald decide to end his life? Had the tide fallen back considerably after R-D? Lastly, how was the Leviathan activated? I also noticed that a dark glare was given to Angel courtesy of Dorothy at the end. I'm also happy to see that the influence of past episodes recur so heavily. Did anyone think Dastun was drawn oddly in a few scenes?

Only Crispy himself knows.

Not sure what you're talking about.

Good questiion. Probably the same way all the other rouge Megadii were activated. However that was done.

Oh yeah, Dora definately doesn't like miss Angel, espically the way she was treated the last time they met.

Dastun didn't seem any more different than usual to me. It may be a second season difference that you just were able to notice now that Dastun has a couple close up shots.

The thing that's always gotten me about Leviathan is just how powerful Schwarzwald seems to be. The sheer number of the fliers he printed up is impressive (they were still cluttering the streets even several episodes later). That he had the kind of foresight to get them printed and find people to distribute them literally months before they'd be needed is also impressive. He doesn't let things like physical death, massive burns or the loss of his Megadeus stand in his way. He planned everything out so well that there were even several of his typewriters set out for Roger to find at various locales thorughout the city that he knew Roger would look in (his second apartment, the tunnel between the Expo chamber and Rosewater's Megadeus Garage). He knew the Leviathan was coming long in advance and made sure that when the time was right, everyone else would get to know as well. He really knows how to get people riled up.

Too bad the old #17 wasn't in shape to take on Big O. I'd bet that it once had a lot more weapons than just the disruptor claws. Oh well, it still did a lot of damage for a "ghost" as Dorothy put it.

And I have to say: I still wish that it was Norman in Big O when Roger got in. That would've rocked.

Also, as was discussed in another thread a while back: I guess that when we see Duo here it's being made ready to become Duo Inferno rather than still being rebuilt from the damage that Roger inflicted in Act 12.

Rosewater really is full of himself, but we already knew that. Still, to say that one was born with the knowledge to operate a Megadeus is a hefty statement. Espeically when your Megadeus is lying in pieces on the floor and you apparently forgot to ask the Union for the assembly instructions or some such.

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Originally posted by ZeaLitY Why did Schwarzvald decide to end his life?

Did he end his own life? To be honest what exactly happened to him has confused me for a while.

Another episode that doesn't rot, but just doesn't make me do backflips, either.
It does make me wonder about a few things:

I wonder what the people of Paradigm thought when they read those pamphlets of Schwarzwald's.
Here I am, a viewer that has been following the guy for 17 episodes, and I don't know what all that was supposed to mean - so I can only imagine what the typical man off the street thought.
To me, it was all summed-up with:
I still haven't found what I'm looking for, so I can't clearly tell you what is on my mind, other than stating that we've all made some kind of big blunder along the path of human development.
But when I do, you'll know about it if I'm still alive - just read this pamphlet in the meantime.

Was there is big gap in time from when Schwarzwald was last seen on camera playing in the sand and when Angel told Roger and Dorothy that he was long dead?
Or should I take it that it was his ghost doing the work?

For a Megadeus with a kick-ass disintergrater claw, #17 Leviathan sure couldn't take much abuse before it lost it's head.

I thought it was cool the way Dorothy struck a pose while trying to keep herself from rambling in machine language.
You don't see her moving like that every day.
Also, she's got nerves of steel to be able to calmly stand pat on that ledge while #17 Leviathan bears down on her like that.
Speaking of that, she probably has a few things made of steel.

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Originally posted by Nicodemus quote: Originally posted by ZeaLitY Why did Schwarzvald decide to end his life? Did he end his own life? To be honest what exactly happened to him has confused me for a while.

Leviathan killed him, presumably. The question is, did he know it was there? If it was, he either sacrificed himself, ignored it in the name of truth, thought it wasn't hostile, or was just being his insane self. Also, Leviathan must not have used the claws or they wouldn't have found his body.

What about the voiceover when Leviathan dustified a few buildings? Were the citizens HEARING it, was it written vaguely in the pamphlets, or was it just something for the viewers?

here is the actual painting schwarzwalds flyer was based on:

http://www.paradigm-city.com/forums/thre...72103#post72103

spoiler (highlight to read):

O: Land Duo: Air Fau: Water O: Behemoth Duo: Ziz Fau: Leviathan Especially since behemoth was the beast on land, leviathan in water, and ziz in the air. Also the 4 horseman of the apocolypse: one on a white horse, one red, one black and one pale Fau: White Duo: Red O: Black Venus: Pale

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Originally posted by Zopwx2 here is the actual painting schwarzwalds flyer was based on: http://www.paradigm-city.com/forums/thre...72103#post72103 spoiler (highlight to read): O: Land Duo: Air Fau: Water O: Behemoth Duo: Ziz Fau: Leviathan Especially since behemoth was the beast on land, leviathan in water, and ziz in the air. Also the 4 horseman of the apocolypse: one on a white horse, one red, one black and one pale Fau: White Duo: Red O: Black Venus: Pale

ziz?

A couple of collected comments/questions:

Day of the Advent

General agreement with everyone else about advancing characterizations and such.

Query: Apparently Roger and Angel slid down that cable to that big crater where the three foreign Megadei are, which doesn't have any solid path to the mainland; but then the Griffon shows up at the crater's edge when they make their escape?

Even though this conversation doesn't tell us anything we really haven't heard before, except to definitively draw the line in the sand between Roger and Alex, the timing and music make it one of the purely coolest moments in the entire series (same for the following Big O vs. the "angel" sequence).

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Roger: "Are you so arrogant that you think you can rule this world?" Alex: "And what about you, don't you think a little too highly of yourself? You just don't have what it takes to be a Dominus, do you?" Roger: "All right, Rosewater. I don't know what you've planned to do with those three foreign Megadeuses, but if you're trying to use memories that have this world plunged into total darkness, I'll fight you to the bitter end!" Alex: "What can you do about it? What power do you have?" Roger: (smirks, pulls back his coatsleeve) "BIIIIIIIIIG O!"

Leviathan

Schwarzwald rocks even from beyond the grave. 'Nuff said.

I don't know much about the local geography of NYC, could that fairgrounds in the desert Schwarzwald came across be Coney Island or another theme park? Either way, there's snow on the sand dunes and the equipment -- it sure is cold in Paradigm.

If they make a season three, there MUST be a scene where Norman has to pilot Big O to save someone. I generally don't dislike the Big O producers even when the episodes aren't the best, but come on! The setup was totally there.

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Originally posted by Wingnut quote: Originally posted by Zopwx2 here is the actual painting schwarzwalds flyer was based on: http://www.paradigm-city.com/forums/thre...72103#post72103 spoiler (highlight to read): O: Land Duo: Air Fau: Water O: Behemoth Duo: Ziz Fau: Leviathan Especially since behemoth was the beast on land, leviathan in water, and ziz in the air. Also the 4 horseman of the apocolypse: one on a white horse, one red, one black and one pale Fau: White Duo: Red O: Black Venus: Pale ziz?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behemoth

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Behemoth: Behemoth is the untranslated name of an amphibious animal mentioned in the Book of Job, 40:15. Suggestions as to his identity include a hippopotamus, a water buffalo, a crocodile, and a dinosaur. Most probably, behemoth is plural for behama, meaning an animal in Hebrew, suggesting that the creature is as big as several animals. It is impossible for anyone to kill a behemoth except for the person who created it, in this case Jehovah. Jewish tradition holds that at the banquet at the end of the world, the behemoth will be served up along with the leviathan and ziz. The Hebrew behemoth is equated with the Persian Hadhayosh, as the leviathan is with the Kar and the ziz with the Simurgh. Metaphorically, the name has come to be used for any extremely large beast. Leviathan: Leviathan (from Hebrew liwjatan, roughly meaning "twisted" or "coiled") was a Biblical multi-headed sea monster, referred to in passing in the Old Testament (Psalms 74:13-14; Job 41; Isaiah 27:1), probably referring to crocodile or whale. The word leviathan has become synonymous with any large monster or creature. The Biblical leviathan is often considered to be a demon associated with Satan or the Devil, and held by some to be the same monster as Rahab (Isaiah 51:9). The Biblical references to leviathan appear to have evolved from a Canaanite legend involving a confrontation between Baal and a seven headed sea monster which Baal defeats with the aid of Mot, and they also resemble a Babylonian myth in which the storm god Marduk slays the sea monster Tiamat and creates the earth and sky from the two halves of her corpse. Legend has it that in the banquet after Armageddon, the carcass of the leviathan will be served as a meal, along with the behemoth and the ziz. Leviathan may also be interpreted as the sea itself, with its counterparts behemoth being the land and ziz being the air and aerospace. Certain Jewish legends consider leviathan as an androgynous dragon that seduced Eve in his male form, and Adam in his female form. In demonology a leviathan is every aquatic demon. They are great liars. Leviathans can also possess persons, being very difficult to exorcise; they try to possess every person, but especially women. During sea-faring's Golden Age, European sailors saw Leviathan as gigantic whale-like sea monster that devoured whole ships by swimming around the vessles so quickly as to create a whirlpool. Ziz: The ziz is a giant bird in Jewish mythology, said to be large enough to be able to block out the sun with its wingspan. According to Hebrew tradition, the meat of this bird will be served as a meal, along with the behemoth and the leviathan, in the banquet at End Times. The Persian Simurgh, which is arguably a fifth accompaniment to the Kar, the Khara, the Hadhayosh, and another bird, the Chamrosh, has been said to be equated by the rabbis with the ziz, their three future-meal giant animals corresponding to the archetypal creatures of Persian mythology. The trio of behemoth, leviathan and ziz was traditionally a favorite decoration motif for rabbis living in Germany. Some say that the ziz was created to protect all of the class Aves and that if the ziz did not exist, all the smaller birds on Earth would be helpless and would have been killed.

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It is impossible for anyone to kill a behemoth except for the person who created it, in this case Jehovah.

So only god can destroy the behemoth:

spoiler (highlight to read):

maybe only angel, the director, could erase big o? I dunno, just trying to further any connection between o and the behemoth.

Zopwx2, nice to see the picture of the flyer and Blake's original (thanks indirectly to Dorothy03.)

I can't agree with your list of "X = Y" because as I've argued elsewhere, I don't think exact equivalencies apply here.

But lest I agree too much with ACT's interpretation of the religious references, I have to say that we do see references which have revelance, quite frequently, they just don't mean what they're thought to mean.

Schwartzwald's apocolyptic predictions sure seem to come true, at least to some extent.

Alex is right about what he says concerning the Son of God, he just wrongly believes Gordon to be this world's God.

The people in Day of the Advent believe that the light descending from the sky is an angel which will take people away to a better world. Right idea, perhaps, but wrong light.

The Revelation 17 references in Leviathian seem quite relevant to the situation, as well...

Narsham

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Originally posted by Narsham I can't agree with your list of "X = Y" because as I've argued elsewhere, I don't think exact equivalencies apply here.

I was just pointing out similarites.

But Behmoth is a land monster and Leviathan is a water monster and supposedly they fight in the end times or somthing.

Especially since vera calls roger behemoth and dorothy says somthing about leviathan being underground (fau is underground) in act 23.

Ah;, well, I was questioning that since the same shore is met with water at the end of R-D, why has the ocean suddenly receded what seems like miles back? I propose...one major tide.

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Originally posted by ZeaLitY Ah;, well, I was questioning that since the same shore is met with water at the end of R-D, why has the ocean suddenly receded what seems like miles back? I propose...one major tide.

If R-D ocurred at the highest tide of the month, and Leviathan at the lowest it'd work well enough.

Also, the water wasn't quite that far back. When Leviathan 17 crosses the sand, there's a bit of water in the center of the gap, as if that was the limit of the low tide. I've been on beaches that almost disappear at high tide, but stretch considerably at the low, so it's not out of the question that that's what was going on there.