Discuss the Current Episode

...Errr.. Who says R and D trust Angel? I only got a 'I'll trust you as far as I can throw you' feeling.

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Originally posted by X Prime ...Errr.. Who says R and D trust Angel? I only got a 'I'll trust you as far as I can throw you' feeling.

Well, that is like ly quite a ways. Dorothy could likely chuck Angel quite some distance. Besides I said to a certain point. Sheesh.

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Originally posted by X Prime ...Errr.. Who says R and D trust Angel? I only got a 'I'll trust you as far as I can throw you' feeling.

Dorothy doesn't trust Angel; she only gets as far as feeling guilty for being jealous of her (which she shows, somewhat indirectly, in the last scene of HYDRA and again at the beginning of TWISTED MEMORIES). Their reconciliation is implied in the last scene of Act 26 (where they're standing together as Roger drives by).

Roger trusts Angel to varying degrees under varying circumstances. He trusts her with his life starting sometime around MISSING CAT, where he does not object to her presence or to her having a gun in her hand. She starts leaking information to him around that time. By NEGOTIATION WITH THE DEAD, she often appears to have no other motive for being on-scene than to protect him. She saves his life several times, depending on how you count, but certainly in NEGOTIATION WITH THE DEAD.

It's clear by Act 19 that Roger trusts Angel personally, and is really only concerned that her orders will force her to do things she wouldn't otherwise do.

Winter Night Phantom is a great act, mainly because like the most part of Season One its a great stand alone episode, yet also touches into the deeper mysteries and events like the end of Season One and practically all of Season Two. I think that if I had to choose one single turning point in the series, it would be this episode.

I also like Dastun having the spotlight for once, and getting to see that as much as he cares about the honor of his job and protecting the people he's also smarter then just being a 'Paradigm lapdog'. He and Roger seem to be the only people in the town who know what justice truly is, unlike the MP's general.

Speaking of which, is the general who scolds Dastun in this episode the same lapdog who wants the MP to support Big Fau in the finale?

yup its the same general guy!

Strangely enough, he also appears in tonight's episode. Any other times we see the General throughout the series? I'm pretty sure he wasn't one of the MP leaders in Ep. 5...

I like this episode not for any plot progression but because it is a gold mine for one liners. One of my favorite in the whole series is said here by our favorite butler/heavy gunner, Norman. (the following is a bit paraphrased since it is from my memory and one thing we learned in the show, memories are unreliable. )
Dorothy gets up and excuses herself from the table after one of Roger's usual lousey comments and then Roger asks, "Did I say something wrong?"
Norman replies, "Nothing but the usual, sir."

Then Dorothy asking Roger if he will be buying anyone a Heaven's Day gift after hearing that tradition dictates buying one for the one you love. Come on Roger, she is practically laying on the table for you! What does it take, some mouth to mouth resuccitation?!?!?

The meeting with the blind girl and Dorothy is classic.

Another is at the end of the episode when it is revealed that Norman tricked Roger into buying Dorothy a Heaven's Day gift by telling him that it was also Dorothy's birthday. I bet Norman got a talking to about that.

Finally, Dorothy looks really happy at the end doing her twirls in her new dress. Go Dorothy!

taaudoloran

PS - this is also one of only twice that Big O lost the fight. I think pretty much that nothing short of the Final Stage could have beat this giant Christmas tree. O tananbaum is right!

I'm with that all the way, taaudoloran.
When I first sat down to watch this one, I wasn't expecting to be satisfied, going by some of the opinions I'd read.
However, I was pleasantly surprised with a bona-fide sleeper of an episode that put itself into my top three, easily.

Why?
The main reason has to be that it touches on what I want from a nice, little story:
It is a sweet, little tale where characters that I genuinely give a crap about are involved in a cute story that plucks at my heart strings, and is nicely resolved at the end.
What more can I ask than that?
None, I'd say.
The final few minutes where Roger presents Dorothy with her gift - and her reaction to the joy she must have been coming to grips with - is way more satisfying that an episode chock full of

spoiler (highlight to read):

tomatoes

could have ever been for me.

Oooh.
And I agree about the line from Norman at the Mile-Long dinner table.
Insidiously funny way of Roger's Butler telling ol' Rog that he needs to get on the perception ball a bit more often, eh?
I also liked how Dorothy closing the door immediately after seemed to drive the point home that we were all two steps ahead of Roger at that point, and put an exclamation point on what Norman had just said.

Good stuff.

I love Daemonseed. It was the first episode I watched of Big O, and still ranks high among my favorites. So it might not advance the overall plot that much, but it does do some great character stuff. It's quite possibly one of the best Christmas episodes of any show I've ever seen. It gets the spirit across without being heavy-handed about it, and still has room for a Megadeus trimming the world's largest Christmas tree!

Oh, and it also introduces Rosewater's god-complex with the line "It's the day God's son was born." I've always felt he was talking about himself there. That December 25 is his birthday as well.

Nice character bits, a look at the culture of Paradigm, and some minor plot hints.

Plus any holiday special that has a giant robot fighting a Christmas tree gets positive points in my book.

Roger is now to the point where his problems with Dorothy all revolve around her being a woman, rather than being an android.

I hope everyone caught the significance of the elevator scene. He forgot! Also, he gave a sincere, unpremeditated apology, as he would for anyone he embarrassed in public through his thoughtlessness.

By this point in the show, it's impossible to believe that Dorothy's emotional responses are less than or even different from those of the girl she was based on (with some exceptions in crises which I will not go into here) -- and no doubt always had been, though she didn't display much emotion in front of Roger when he was still denying she had emotions, and she still doesn't smile. She became upset by his dismissal of the holiday season (which she obviously wanted to use as a means of moving them closer together), she was mortified by the scene in the elevator, she was annoyed by his continual failure to miss the hints that she and Norman threw out, she was intrigued by Laura's and Oliver's relationship and went back for some lonely hearts advice.

Lots of interesting stuff about Dorothy in this episode. By nature she is quiet and almost reclusive, it seems, but she'll canvass an entire block and talk to everyone she can find if there's a reason to do so. On the other hand, she still lacks conversational skills -- it's a good thing Laura is so accommodating, or the gaps in Dorothy's conversation would have been unbridgeable. (At least Dorothy's lack of facial expression isn't going to throw Laura into any false conclusions.) Dorothy refuses to mention her love for Roger, presumably because he would be upset if he knew she had done it, and would think she had made him look ridiculous. She's willing to make him look ridiculous in private, but not in front of relative strangers.

God, but Dorothy looks hot when she's playing detective-sidekick to Roger!

Roger, bless his soul, is happy to buy Dorothy an expensive gift so long as it doesn't have overtones of genuflecting towards the Paradigm Corporation, and he buys Dorothy a very expensive coat (NOT a dress -- that's a translation error).

Oliver is quite a character, but you can see why he might prefer street music to the ill-paying jobs that are open to him.

Starting way back in UNDERGROUND TERROR, we saw Alex as the (nearly) all-seeing mastermind. In CALL FROM THE PAST, we saw him as a heartless murderer who thought that a ravening Megadeus was a way of "cleaning up" the area outside the domes. His contempt for foreigners was shown in WINTER NIGHT PHANTOM. In DAEMONSEED, we get the first hint that he also has delusions of godhood. I offer these observations as food for thought for those who believe that the writers hadn't given Season 2 any thought before R-D.

That was a rather weird elevator to begin with though. It had a capasity for 12 people yet a weight limit of only 382 lbs! WTF?
And that "mile-long dinner table" has a total of 8 chairs, one at each end and 3 on each side.

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Then Dorothy asking Roger if he will be buying anyone a Heaven's Day gift after hearing that tradition dictates buying one for the one you love. Come on Roger, she is practically laying on the table for you! What does it take, some mouth to mouth resuccitation?!?!?

That just makes me wonder more, if Dorothy was human in that situation, would Roger have been a bit more attuned to her suggestion? Nah, at this point he is still a perception-impared louse so it wouldn't matter.

you know i just noticed...

When Oliver cooks the ham for Laura, he gives her all the ham , but gives none to himself,but pretends to eat, i guess he doesnt want her to worry

He really loves that girl


and is Dorothy smiling when Oliver and Laura kiss at the end?

Geez Roger, its open season on Dorothy and you too busy being a tight-wad, he's worse than Ryo from Shenmue

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Originally posted by C.R Foxhound When Oliver cooks the ham for Laura, he gives her all the ham , but gives none to himself,but pretends to eat, i guess he doesnt want her to worry He really loves that girl

Yes, he does. And you'll notice that Laura doesn't eat any on-camera. I'll bet she takes a few bites, tells Oliver she can't finish the ham, and insists that he eat the rest. That's just so darn sweet!

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and is Dorothy smiling when Oliver and Laura kiss at the end? Geez Roger, its open season on Dorothy and you too busy being a tight-wad, he's worse than Ryo from Shenmue

He's plenty free with cash, it's the currency from the heart that Dorothy is angling for. Thanks to Norman's kick, Roger is able to separate the gift-giving from Paradigm City's Heaven's Day celebration. (See also Roger's Mono, Act 09: The Second Heaven's Day.) I noticed that Roger & Dorothy exchanged gifts on Heaven's Day Eve.

So here's something that's been puzzling me about the end. Roger has Dorothy's present, because Norman picked it up. But why does Dorothy have Roger's? Did she carry it with her when she visited Laura? Did Norman cleverly bring it with him? I'd hate to think it was a continuity error.

Pygmalion

i think Norman took it with him, although that in itself has some problems

but lets just enjoy this rediculously sweet epidsode, at least next time around

As I said before, I loved this ep...

You have to wonder if the translators were taking serious liberty with the English language though. If you want to get really, really technical, here's the noun definitions of dress:

n.
1: Clothing; apparel.
2: A style of clothing: Ex: folk dancers in peasant dress.
3: A one-piece outer garment for women or girls.
4: Outer covering or appearance; guise: Ex: an ancient ritual in modern dress.

If 3 is taken literally, then I suppose the poor saps at translation only screwed up in our heads.

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Originally posted by Pygmalion So here's something that's been puzzling me about the end. Roger has Dorothy's present, because Norman picked it up. But why does Dorothy have Roger's? Did she carry it with her when she visited Laura? Did Norman cleverly bring it with him? I'd hate to think it was a continuity error.

It's a Heaven's Day Miracle!

Apropos of nothing: Hmmm, if Roger hates Heaven's Day so much perhaps he should make his own holiday. A Festivus for the rest of us!

After Dorothy asked Roger if he was going to be buying a present for anybody, he put his elbow(s) up on the table. That's horrible etiquette, Roger. He also pretty much ignored Laura when she offered him some sugar.

He needs to brush up on those manners. Dining alone all that time before Dorothy came along has dulled them.

I was wondering about that dress at the end. It shows her wearing the new one and showing it off. When I first saw it, I thought, "Did she change clothes in front of everyone?" But a coat or outer garment would make more sense there.

taaudoloran

Alright, now this is a great episode... also the first one i've been able to see in quite a while, due to needing to go to bed earlyish for work and my VCR not working right.

Schwartzwald, as always, is a great villan. Gotta love Ol' Crispy's fanatical dedication to (his version) of the truth. there are some definate echoes of Lovecraft in just about any schwartzwald story, methinks. Truth unto Madness.

Interesting how the second the wrappings come off the MegaMummy, everybody who sees it seems to instantly know that this is not a normal Megadeus, just like withthe big O. Is it just the styling of the Chassis of Big Duo, or is it some deeper instictive Memory?

Speaking of the wrappings... I'd llike to know how Mr. Crispy managed to design and build them, seeing as they seemed almost alive...

Again, what is big duo reaching for at the end? what is the secret of the Paradigm spire?