Why I would pick Dorothy over Angel?

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Originally posted by Hanyou I'm with ACT on this one. Dorothy's not a conversationalist by any means. She NEVER says more than she needs to. Of course that's all a matter of opinion, but I think a good deal of her android nature is reflected in the fact that her dialogue is perfectly on-target, and she excels (sp?) at hiding her emotions.

By definiton, a conversationalist is
- One given to or skilled at conversation.

The definition of conversation is
- The spoken exchange of thoughts, opinions, and feelings; talk.

So, judging by Dorothy's spoken exchange of thought (with Laura during 'Daemonseed'), opinions (With Roger evertime she get's a chance) and feelings (with Roger when she felt like playing the blues, wanted him to save Instro and her feelings for Pero), I would say that she's a conversationalist. What I would agree is that she is not a 'Chatty Cathy Doll" and speak endlessly in a rhetorical fashion. She makes her point and stops. This doesn't stunt her conversation skills, it just forces the opposition to keep the conversation alive.

** Feeling an urge to spazz out. **

Dorothy rules!!!

Now, I didn't say Dorothy was talkitive. That's an overstatement of epic proportions. By 'conversationalist' I meant that she would have something intelligent to say in a conversation. She's seems very cerebral to me. She's always thinking. I like that.

Dorothy and Roger do have one thing in common though: they are both fiercely private people. Neither one of them feels the need to talk to anyone about the things that are bothering them. We can see that this bothers Dorothy in 'Stripes' when she watches him trying to get control of himself after his dream, but at the same time Dorothy sure as hell isn't going to tell Roger without a fight or unless absolutely nessesary what's bothering her. So even if their is a gap in Dorothy's conversational skills I'm not really sure that it poses a problem. Neither one of them is very dependant on anyone. Which is kind of ironic because they do sort of need each other, but they aren't emotionally needy.

If they do get together (i.e. become more comfortable in their relationship) in season three I can see them trying to get each other to open up while refusing to do so themselves. After what happened with the machines (the ones that kidnapped Dorothy) and Dorothy's new connetion with Big O Roger's going to have some questions for Dorothy but he's going to have one hell of a time getting her to answer.

A few years down the road they might be more open with each other than they are now but they'll never tell each other everything.

But again, personal oppinion. And only season three can tell for sure either way.


muchlove
-dork

Well, Roger isn't exactly the chatty type, and Angel tends to have such a negative view of things. She has such a temper, too, and she. . .she's very emotional.

As to who I would pick, I wouldn't pick either one because I don't look at other women that way. I would pick Roger. Even though he's not an option.

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Originally posted by Dork Which is kind of ironic because they do sort of need each other, but they aren't emotionally needy.

I'm not sure if Roger or Dorothy are not emotionally needy. When Dorothy had her brush with terror, after meeting the Architype, she seemed to be under emotional distress. It was Roger's pep talk and her ability to trust him that got her through that nightmare.

As for Roger, I think her company keeps Roger emotionally health. His subtle dosages or anger and, though he would never admit it, happiness comes from his interactiosn with her. The flower Roger gave to Dorothy illustrates his desire, if not need, for her companionship.

I know I may be jumping the gun, but this is what I see.

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Originally posted by Tony quote: Originally posted by Dork Which is kind of ironic because they do sort of need each other, but they aren't emotionally needy. I'm not sure if Roger or Dorothy are not emotionally needy. When Dorothy had her brush with terror, after meeting the Architype, she seemed to be under emotional distress. It was Roger's pep talk and her ability to trust him that got her through that nightmare. As for Roger, I think her company keeps Roger emotionally health. His subtle dosages or anger and, though he would never admit it, happiness comes from his interactiosn with her. The flower Roger gave to Dorothy illustrates his desire, if not need, for her companionship.

When I say 'emotionally needy' I mean someone who always needs to be near the person they love, and wants that person to constantly pay attention to them and dote on them and on and on and on. Have you read/seen 'A Streetcar named Desire'? Stella is needy. She gets terribly upset if Stanley's away for one night and then when he comes back she cries in his lap like a baby. And even when he comes home from work or the bowling alley she flings herself into his arms. And at the end of the play her need to stay with Stanley blinds her to fact that he raped her sister, she just refuses to believe it.

Needing a little pep talk now and then isn't needy. Wanting someone's companionship isn't needy. Turning the person you love into hobby to the exclusion of anything else is needy.

Roger and Dorothy seem pretty normal to me. Aside from the fact that a physical relationship between them can be refered to as 'android on tomato-clone action'. Hee hee. . . I crack me up....


muchlove
-dork

quote:

Originally posted by Dork Now, I didn't say Dorothy was talkitive. That's an overstatement of epic proportions. By 'conversationalist' I meant that she would have something intelligent to say in a conversation. She's seems very cerebral to me. She's always thinking. I like that.

All very true. But, generally speaking, people accept a social duty to put others at their ease through the use of conversation: small talk. Dorothy doesn't do this. She lets the other person carry practically the full weight of the conversation, even when Dorothy herself initiated it. Her conversation with Laura in DAEMONSEED is a perfect example of this. When Laura asks, "Can you take some tea?" Dorothy answers clinically: "'A little. I don't need it, though, and I can't really taste it" -- thus leaving Laura just as much in the dark over whether to make a cup of tea for Dorothy as she was in the beginning. Had Dorothy started her answer with, "No, thanks," she would have been a lot more helpful.

Dorothy's SPEECH isn't impaired. She speaks clearly and colloquially. Her SOCIAL SKILLS are impaired. I assume this is not an android thing -- Instro has wonderful manners -- but is the result of growing up with an eccentric recluse as one's major (only?) role model.

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Dorothy's SPEECH isn't impaired. She speaks clearly and colloquially. Her SOCIAL SKILLS are impaired. I assume this is not an android thing -- Instro has wonderful manners -- but is the result of growing up with an eccentric recluse as one's major (only?) role model.

Dorothy's social skills continue to refine themselves the longer she spends away from her father. So if Roger and Dorothy do get together ::dodges objects being thrown:: her social skills will get even better. As far as her social skills are concerned she's doing a remarkably good job refining them with only Roger (who talks to her less and less as the show goes on) and Norman. In season three Roger will hopefully no longer be afraid of Dorothy (admit it, he's never been more scared of another being in his *life*) and they can go back to having normal conversations like they did at the beginning of the series before things got all, as Dr. Evil put it, 'weird'.

Our little Dorothy still has a little growing up to do.

I like to think of her as an emotionally damaged child. In a Paradigm with memories Dr. Wayneright would have been charged with neglect for what he did to her.


muchlove
-dork

Given the characters I have come accross during my tenure in this great fora, I find Dorothy's communication skills to be well within the boundaries of acceptability. Sure, she doesn't talk much. That's okay, I really don't have much to say. I mean, if she and I were on a romantic date, I wouldn't be interested in making her say anything. I'd be more interested in...

** Struck on the head by a thrown boot **

Hey, I was going to say that I'd be more interested in close proximity to her radiance.

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Originally posted by Tony Hey, I was going to say that I'd be more interested in close proximity to her radiance.

liar

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Originally posted by C.R Foxhound quote: Originally posted by Tony Hey, I was going to say that I'd be more interested in close proximity to her radiance. liar

Come on, give me some slack! I am 27, male and in love with a surly, redheaded android. I would never do anything to violate her person (at least, not without her permission).

Yeah, we don't want any Tony-related-chobits-type moments happening.

I would pick Angel over Dorothy. Why? Because she is a real human being and she is way more attractive. I dont know how some people find machines attractive but they do.

Better not let Tony read that or YOU'LL be the one struck with the thrown boot. O_O

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Originally posted by YoruameBaroness Better not let Tony read that or YOU'LL be the one struck with the thrown boot. O_O

It's all good, my baroness. I don't mind the statements from non-believers. As far as I'm concerned, Dorothy is a real woman. She has feelings, emotions, thoughts and aspirations (being with Roger counts). She has shown happiness (Roger saving her from Alan), Sadness (when Angel entered Roger's life), Fear (during her encounters with the Archetype), Deceit (Lied to Norman about Angel) and Love (during the time she almost smashed Roger and when she was Negotiating for his release).

The only thing I can see her not being able to do is procreate. But, if I was her boyfriend, I would just adopt.

Those who say Dorothy isn't a real human, they're right. But, she is a living being. Artificial intelligence is a unique form of life. As for not being more attractive as Dorothy; You have your tastes, I have mine.

Bump!

One reason why ROGER should pick Dorothy over Angel is that Big O loves Dorothy, while he hasn't expressed an opinion about Angel, one way or the other. Roger should never be in a position where Dorothy and Big O are mad at him at the same time!

Now, as to whether TONY should pick Dorothy over Angel, I think he should pick Angel, on the grounds that a software engineer's desire to tinker with programming should not extend to his loved ones.

Unless he's cast more in the mold of Beck, of course.

Me? Dorothy all the way. She's adorable in her frankness, intriguing in her search for identity, and I have a thing for redheads. (And being a rather pale redhead myself, I must say we rock. Solidarity and all that. *g*)

As for poor, dear confused Roger?

Both Angel and Dorothy represent something Roger wants to control or otherwise change in his own self. He keeps bouncing back and forth between them because he senses an imbalance within himself. It's that conflict between what he wants and what he thinks he should want. (More of his intense desire to always do what he considers "the right thing".) Once he manages to integrate the two ideas, he'll be able to make the right decision.

Which to me is, of course, Dorothy. She's a stabilizing influence, Roger's touchstone of reason and/or logic in a world that's literally gone mad. Roger and Angel as a pairing strikes me as too unstable, too incendiary to last.

I hope I've managed to make a bit of sense. Finals are frying my brain in my skull.

It all boils down to what you want. I want a girl with a great heart, dedication, selfless and kind. Angel isn't any of these things. She lacks heart, since she did try to take Roger from Dorothy. She lacks dedication, since she betrayed just about everyone. She is anything by selfless and kind, I believe the first two examples illustrate that.

Dorothy symbolizes everything I want in a woman. Powerful, yet reserved. She can do as she pleases, yet has dedicated her life to her love. Now that's awesome. (I found my Dorothy, and she looks great in an orange vest).

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Originally posted by Tony I don't mind the statements from non-believers. As far as I'm concerned, Dorothy is a real woman. She has feelings, emotions, thoughts [...]. She has shown Happiness [...], Sadness [...], Fear [...]. Those who say Dorothy isn't a real human, they're right. But, she is a living being.

Animals, such as all of our beloved pets, also show signs of happiness, sadness, fear, anger, etc. But even though we love them, we don't have relationships with our pets, do we?

Why not? Because they are simply not the same species. A dog is not a human, just as Dorothy is not a human. By all means, though, I'm quite sure that there is no doubt in anyones mind that Dorothy is a living being...but then again, there is no doubt that cats and dogs are also living beings.

I think you can see where I'm going with this...

quote:

Originally posted by Tony It all boils down to what you want. I want a girl with a great heart, dedication, selfless and kind. Angel isn't any of these things. She lacks heart, since she did try to take Roger from Dorothy. She lacks dedication, since she betrayed just about everyone. She is anything by selfless and kind, I believe the first two examples illustrate that.

'Scuse me while I play rabid Angel fan/Devil's Advocate here.

Angel never tried to take Roger from Dorothy, because Roger hadn't made up his mind yet. Once she realized he wanted Dorothy and not her, she gave up. You can't take someone away when they don't belong to anyone yet. In her mind, it was preposterous that Roger could be in love with an android; she never saw Dorothy as competition. When she realized that it was true, she didn't try to fight back and change Roger's mind. She just went on alone in the rain.

The lack of dedication I can see, since she did betray the Union.. but is that really such a bad thing? She essentially gave them up in order to help Roger. Would you rather she had stuck with them and helped destroy the city?

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Originally posted by Almasy quote: Originally posted by Tony I don't mind the statements from non-believers. As far as I'm concerned, Dorothy is a real woman. She has feelings, emotions, thoughts [...]. She has shown Happiness [...], Sadness [...], Fear [...]. Those who say Dorothy isn't a real human, they're right. But, she is a living being. Animals, such as all of our beloved pets, also show signs of happiness, sadness, fear, anger, etc. But even though we love them, we don't have relationships with our pets, do we? Why not? Because they are simply not the same species. A dog is not a human, just as Dorothy is not a human. By all means, though, I'm quite sure that there is no doubt in anyones mind that Dorothy is a living being...but then again, there is no doubt that cats and dogs are also living beings. I think you can see where I'm going with this...

Let's view the other side of the coin. What makes Dorothy less human than a sterile person? What would be the difference? Dorothy was made to be Timothy Wayneright's daughter, in every detail. Meaning, if she didn't tell you what "species" she was, you would never know. How’s this different from falling in love with a person you only met via webcam chat? Nothing at all.

Also, if Dorothy was constructed to perfection, then she would do just about everything a normal woman can (even sexual). If that's the fact, what is the difference? Dorothy loves, feels, nurtures, cares, hugs when you are feeling down, offer opinions and suggestions, and protects. Pets can't do all of these things. No, Dorothy is hardly a pet; just like Angel isn't (being a walking memory and all).

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Originally posted by Tifaria Angel never tried to take Roger from Dorothy, because Roger hadn't made up his mind yet. Once she realized he wanted Dorothy and not her, she gave up. You can't take someone away when they don't belong to anyone yet. In her mind, it was preposterous that Roger could be in love with an android; she never saw Dorothy as competition. When she realized that it was true, she didn't try to fight back and change Roger's mind. She just went on alone in the rain.

Roger was Dorothy's from very early on (I suspect from "Beck is Back"). Then again, I believe Angel was in denial until "Strips". Why else would she accuse Roger of being in love with an "unsufferable android"? She had an idea who he belong to.