Why I would pick Dorothy over Angel?

I don't think Angel would just discard Roger. I mean, she is capable of genuine feelings. But I think Dorothy keeps Roger from getting up on his pedestal of pride and keeps him . . .down to earth, if you will.

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Originally posted by YoruameBaroness I don't think Angel would just discard Roger. I mean, she is capable of genuine feelings. But I think Dorothy keeps Roger from getting up on his pedestal of pride and keeps him . . .down to earth, if you will.

Agreed ^^.
Angel is more like the female Roger. She and Roger have a point of understanding in which they are after the same goal but they have different approaches. Both Angel and Roger are very independent, headstrong , and practical.Angel does have genuine feelings for Roger , they understand eachother well, but their likenesses tend to push them away from eachother when going after their independent goals.

Dorothy is Roger's extreme oppisite, both have conflicting views on life in general. Roger has flaws and Dorothy was built to be perfect. But's it's Roger's flaws that humanized Dorothy, she developed emotions from being with him. Roger also learns from Dorothy. Being so different they complete eachother, thats a big reason as to why it's such a popular pairing. Roger is intrigued by Dorothy and Dorothy is curious to learn about Roger. This can lead to a lack of understanding at times, however seeing how they connect to eachother is extremely interesting.

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Originally posted by GummiBear289 Angel is more like the female Roger. She and Roger have a point of understanding in which they are after the same goal but they have different approaches. Both Angel and Roger are very independent, headstrong , and practical.Angel does have genuine feelings for Roger , they understand eachother well, but their likenesses tend to push them away from eachother when going after their independent goals.

I agree with this. I should add that Roger has genuine feelings for Angel, as well. They understood each other pretty well even when they mostly lied and kept secrets from each other. They make a good team. It was interesting watching how they both trusted each other after CALL FROM THE PAST; such as when Roger let Angel lead the way in MISISNG CAT, and when Angel tossed him her pistol in the same episode. The audience may have felt that Angel was going to use him the way she had in ELECTRIC CITY, but Roger knew better.

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Dorothy is Roger's extreme oppisite, both have conflicting views on life in general. Roger has flaws and Dorothy was built to be perfect. But's it's Roger's flaws that humanized Dorothy, she developed emotions from being with him. Roger also learns from Dorothy. Being so different they complete eachother, thats a big reason as to why it's such a popular pairing. Roger is intrigued by Dorothy and Dorothy is curious to learn about Roger. This can lead to a lack of understanding at times, however seeing how they connect to eachother is extremely interesting.[/B]

I mostly agree with this, except that I don't think that Dorothy is perfect or was intended to be so. Being silent and self-contained makes people seem wiser than they are. Dorothy is extremely capable, but she makes plenty of blunders in the show, too. But, like you said, she's very different from Roger, and the two of them make a great team in a way that' s totally different from Roger and Angel. (I can't help but think that Dorothy and Angel would also make a great team!)

One difference between Dorothy and Angel is that Angel and Roger speak the same language, and they have little difficulty figuring out where their relationship is at any given moment, just by the way they're flirting and bickering with each other. Dorothy is not very communicative, and when she's annoyed with Roger she's even worse.

Dastun is also a lot like Roger, while the character who is most like Dorothy is Norman.

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Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato I agree with this. I should add that Roger has genuine feelings for Angel, as well. They understood each other pretty well even when they mostly lied and kept secrets from each other. They make a good team. It was interesting watching how they both trusted each other after CALL FROM THE PAST; such as when Roger let Angel lead the way in MISISNG CAT, and when Angel tossed him her pistol in the same episode. The audience may have felt that Angel was going to use him the way she had in ELECTRIC CITY, but Roger knew better.

^^ Wow you really are my favorite uncle. *points to your title*
I agree. Angel and Roger do work well together like in "Missing Cat". Roger does have feelings for Angel also. I think for Roger it's easier to understand where Angel is coming from. However it is possible to have two different types of chemistry. For me I know that most of my friends are either my total opisites or totally alike. Or in a romantic partner, I like guys who share my interests and I may feel an attraction to someone who has a different view from mine. Chemistry works both ways, like with Roger. He has chemistry with both Angel and Dorothy.I personally am for the DorothyxRoger pairing but I like Angel she really has grown on me since I first starting watching the show, now I really like her. ^^

To be perfectly honest, I think that A.C.T. and GummiBear289 are right. Chemistry can be an attribute of massive importants in the Roger+Angel situation. However, I think Dorothy offers Roger something a bit more unique.

Dorothy offers Roger everthing that he is lacking. She is his surrogate conscious and reminder of things he should be focusing on. Her stubborness helps Roger see that there is an other side to the coin, that there are other options. As far as I'm concern, I think Dorothy is a little better for Roger (not by much), than Angel. However, if he didn't go her, I wouldn't shed a tear. I would ask her out.

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Originally posted by Tony To be perfectly honest, I think that A.C.T. and GummiBear289 is right. Chemistry can be an attribute of massive importants in the Roger+Angel situation. However, I think Dorothy offers Roger something a bit more unique.

Angel doesn't really have a chance anymore, of course. Not after Dorothy has come back from the dead to save Roger, and is able to plug into Big O, and all that. She's too intimately wrapped up in every aspect of Roger's life for anyone else to provide real competition. Distraction, yes; competition, no.

Angel loves Roger, and vice versa, but it's not as intense, as intimate, or as continuous a relationship as Roger and Dorothy's. Angel is doomed to play the role of "best friend."

From the foreshadowing we saw in the last few episodes, it seems inevitable that she will end up with Dastun.

As far as romantic tension is concerned, the worst threat is that, if the circumstances were right, Angel and Roger might give in to the passion of the moment and have a fling. This would be plenty bad enough, but it's not as big a threat as Dorothy was facing before.

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Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato As far as romantic tension is concerned, the worst threat is that, if the circumstances were right, Angel and Roger might give in to the passion of the moment and have a fling.

I doubt that Roger would allow his emotions to misdirect him like this. He's not much for allowing his feelings to get the best of him. What I mean to say is that Roger never confessed his love for Dorothy (I know he did say that given certain circumstances that he may). If Roger was to take Dorothy as his significant other, it would be years of Dorothy's subtle charm and sarcasm that will scoop through the layers of self-defensive barriers that he has placed upon himself.

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Originally posted by Tony quote: Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato As far as romantic tension is concerned, the worst threat is that, if the circumstances were right, Angel and Roger might give in to the passion of the moment and have a fling. I doubt that Roger would allow his emotions to misdirect him like this. He's not much for allowing his feelings to get the best of him. What I mean to say is that Roger never confessed his love for Dorothy (I know he did say that given certain circumstances that he may). If Roger was to take Dorothy as his significant other, it would be years of Dorothy's subtle charm and sarcasm that will scoop through the layers of self-defensive barriers that he has placed upon himself.

And that's why Roger and Dorothy would have a lasting relationship. Not to say that Angel and Roger wouldn't, but I think a relationship between them would have some tension because both are so headstrong and determined.

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Originally posted by Tony quote: Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato As far as romantic tension is concerned, the worst threat is that, if the circumstances were right, Angel and Roger might give in to the passion of the moment and have a fling. I doubt that Roger would allow his emotions to misdirect him like this. He's not much for allowing his feelings to get the best of him.

I disagree. Roger doesn't control his feelings, he denies them. Instead of examining them and dealing with them, he puts a lid on them and tries to hold it down. This is a recipe for disaster.

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Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato quote: Originally posted by Tony quote: Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato As far as romantic tension is concerned, the worst threat is that, if the circumstances were right, Angel and Roger might give in to the passion of the moment and have a fling. I doubt that Roger would allow his emotions to misdirect him like this. He's not much for allowing his feelings to get the best of him. I disagree. Roger doesn't control his feelings, he denies them. Instead of examining them and dealing with them, he puts a lid on them and tries to hold it down. This is a recipe for disaster.

I agree with you, ACT. That's why he reacts the way he does to Angel when she figures out he is love with Dorothy, and to Beck's comment in Ep 18. Roger's a little dense sometimes.

BabyGhia

Angel: I think we should deal with this
Roger: And I think I should bottle this up along with my feelings of parental abandonment into a tight ball in my stomach until it eventually explodes in the form of a terrible mistake that puts those I care about most in danger, or perhaps an ulcer.
Angel: @_@

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Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato quote: Originally posted by Tony quote: Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato As far as romantic tension is concerned, the worst threat is that, if the circumstances were right, Angel and Roger might give in to the passion of the moment and have a fling. I doubt that Roger would allow his emotions to misdirect him like this. He's not much for allowing his feelings to get the best of him. I disagree. Roger doesn't control his feelings, he denies them. Instead of examining them and dealing with them, he puts a lid on them and tries to hold it down. This is a recipe for disaster.

I never said he controlled his feelings (although, denying your emotions is a terrible way of coping with them, I suppose). He tries not to allow himself to get affected them. And Yes, emotion suppression can lead to mild to sever psychological damage, namely Angel.

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Originally posted by Tony I never said he controlled his feelings (although, denying your emotions is a terrible way of coping with them, I suppose). He tries not to allow himself to get affected them.

But is he any good at it? He's always getting angry at people. He can't keep his temper with Dorothy, Beck, Alex, Alan, Schwarzwald -- all the people he most needs to stay calm around. He quickly teaches them that they can easily make him lose his cool.

He's actually better around Angel than with most people, because their constant low-level bickering tends to work as a safety valve.

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Originally posted by Dork Angel: I think we should deal with this Roger: And I think I should bottle this up along with my feelings of parental abandonment into a tight ball in my stomach until it eventually explodes in the form of a terrible mistake that puts those I care about most in danger, or perhaps an ulcer. Angel: @_@

LOL

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Originally posted by Dork Angel: I think we should deal with this Roger: And I think I should bottle this up along with my feelings of parental abandonment into a tight ball in my stomach until it eventually explodes in the form of a terrible mistake that puts those I care about most in danger, or perhaps an ulcer. Angel: @_@

I hate to break the mood by introducing a note of seriousness, but the "parental abandonment" part had never occurred to me!

Maybe it's just me, but Roger places barriers between himself and other people -- he even wears gloves practically all the time and hides his eyes behind sunglasses in a world without sunshine. He lives on the ninth floor of a building with eight empty floors below him and a butler to keep the world away from him. His relations with people tend to be scripted. It bothers him to have his routine disturbed -- for example, he made a big deal out of having Dorothy walk into the Speakeasy with him.

Does this sound like someone with deep feelings of insecurity to you? I think so, too.

Roger can relax with Angel because the two of them are always playing a game for which they generally (not always) both know the rules. The lies, secrets, and artifice keep things from being too personal. Dorothy is too honest and straightforward, and makes Roger uncomfortable.

Well, he's getting over it! He really is coming along nicely. But Dorothy would be well-advised to set up a new routine with him rather than doing things too free-form.

To wander back on-topic, (that is, leaving Roger out of this and asking if I would choos Dorothy over Angel), it's not clear to me that Dorothy has any small talk or the slightest desire to whoop it up, so spending liesure time with her is probably a non-starter. There would have to be a practical objective. And it would be odd doing any kind of work, even shopping, with someone who never gets tired. Dorothy wouldn't even fill up your rest breaks with conversation. The whole experience would be very strange.

Angel, not being an android and being perfectly willing to keep up her end of the conversation, would present less of a challenge socially, if you weren't intimidated by her physical presence or her stubbornness.

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Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato To wander back on-topic, (that is, leaving Roger out of this and asking if I would choos Dorothy over Angel), it's not clear to me that Dorothy has any small talk or the slightest desire to whoop it up, so spending liesure time with her is probably a non-starter. There would have to be a practical objective. And it would be odd doing any kind of work, even shopping, with someone who never gets tired. Dorothy wouldn't even fill up your rest breaks with conversation. The whole experience would be very strange.

I'm not sure about Dorothy not being able to hold her end in a conversation. We don't get as much "personal" time with her as we get with Roger and Angel. The only two times I see her conversing (for the sake of conversation) is with Laura (which ended in a Heaven's Day disaster and her little dance) and with Tammy (which ended with a frightening brush with death and a cute game of ball).

Her conversations with Roger seem to be more "to-the-point" because of the lack of comfort on both sides. I agree, Dorothy is too honest for her own good. Her witty observations and "knit picking" of his flaws can't help his confidence much. This would cause most guys to develop a nasty case of self-consciousness and insecurity.

But, Roger seems to always verbally chastise her for being herself. Not to mention that fact that he was really rude with her during their early exposure to each other. If first impressions are what really counts, then Dorothy should've left him after the whole "you are mimicking us" bit. So, you can see why she would be reluctant to open up to him.

A meaningful conversation needs both parties to respect and trust each other. I think both of them have this capacity, and is displayed all the time. However, when it comes to actually speaking intimately, both attributes seem to be lacking.

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Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato To wander back on-topic, (that is, leaving Roger out of this and asking if I would choos Dorothy over Angel), it's not clear to me that Dorothy has any small talk or the slightest desire to whoop it up, so spending liesure time with her is probably a non-starter. There would have to be a practical objective. And it would be odd doing any kind of work, even shopping, with someone who never gets tired. Dorothy wouldn't even fill up your rest breaks with conversation. The whole experience would be very strange.

It’s an interesting question. And a difficult one. I suppose only time (and season three) can tell for sure.

I’m so sure about Dorothy being to honest for her good. She knows what kind of reaction she’s looking for and probably going to get when she needles Roger. And there’s still a possibility that she was mainly sniping him because of her own frustration over Roger’s indecisiveness in their relationship.

We might be concentrating a little too much on Season two. It was a stressful time for everyone (Roger especially) and we just didn’t get to see them interacting much out of a crisis. In season one Dorothy and Roger talked much more. Especially during the first few episodes before Dorothy’s feelings for Roger became more apparent to both of them. In ‘Electric City’ Roger and Dorothy talked very shortly about (and I can’t think of a better way of saying this) the nature of Dorothy’s android self. Once again it was a very short conversation but Dorothy admitted that sometimes she liked to play the blues. As private a person as she is it was a little surprising to hear her volunteer that personal a piece of information.

In ‘Bring Back my Ghost’ Dorothy pipes right into a conversation Norman and Roger were having. In 'Underground Terror' Dorothy basically lets us know that she spends time independantly thinking about things, so it's not like she doesn't have anything to say. (She might even be better a conversationionalist than some humans.) We also have their talk on the roof in ‘Missing Cat’ and several little incidents of exchanged dialogue in ‘Beck Comes Back’.

After ‘Beck Comes Back’ Roger and Dorothy’s conversations dwindle significantly. Dorothy knows she loves Roger and he definitely suspects the same. With this hanging in the air they just aren’t sure how to approach each other anymore, where before they both knew what the nature of their relationship was.

Dorothy’s a smart girl, by the middle of season one she knows how Roger thinks. She doesn’t know how to talk to Roger about her feelings or even how to imply she has them without scaring him off. Dorothy on tells Rog that she loves him in ‘The Greatest Villian’ only because of the mounting stress and frustration. It’s not normally something she would have done. It had to have been bothering her, more than even we can tell, for a long time. The kidnapping, and Roger’s perceived ungratefulness, was just the straw that broke the camel’s back. Of course when she saw that her confession had not been taken seriously she quickly back-pedaled “I was joking. I was just trying to lighten the mood”. (her first lie, by the by. Kind of interesting that she didn’t even notice it.)

And then starting in ‘Eyewitness’ Roger, motivated by his ever-growing tomato-clone insecurities, starts actively looking for someone else who he can push his feelings for Dorothy on. When you’re trying to forget you love someone the worst thing you can do is remind yourself why you love them by spending time with them and talking to them.

And of course if you watch the last six episodes, starting with ‘The Third Big’ back to back (like I’ve done three times in the last month ::grumble grumble::) you’ll see that Dorothy doesn’t snipe at Roger once. Technically she snipes once in act 26, but I’ve always taken that as a playful tease kind of thing.

We have never seen these two in any kind of normal situation. There’s always a giant robot attacking, or mentally feeling up Dora. And then there’s the conflicting Angel, and Roger’s problems with being a tomato (“does loving an android make me less human?”), on and on and on. It never stops.

Hopefully in season three (IF WE EVER GET IT!!!! )we’ll be able to see Rog and Dora interacting normally. I really want to see how they react to not having any more barriers standing between them. Although I suspect massive skittishness on both their parts for a couple of episodes.

Ug. Sorry for making you read that. I try to turn everything into an essay. I'm sure ACT or Tony could have said the same in three paragraphs.


Anywho,
Muchlove
-dork

** Hugs Dork **

Well said, my articulate friend. Very well said. I couldn't say it better myself (due to my lack of vocabulary and focus).

Also, to add to the point to Roger knowing that Dorothy loved him. Unless Roger is really thick skulled (which is not far from the truth), Dorothy's statement, of "Beck is Back", to Roger was as straight forward as one can say, "Roger, I Love you." I wrote my first story based on that scene.

Kudos

P.S. As for turning everything into an essay, I can only wish to have that ability. My boss would love that.

I still think that Dorothy basically doesn't talk much. Her speech isn't impaired or anything, but she chooses to be silent in many situations where most people would talk. I don't think it has anything to do with Roger. We see her with Norman in a number of episodes, and it's not like she's Little Miss Chatterbox around him -- and Norman's her biggest fan.

I'm with ACT on this one. Dorothy's not a conversationalist by any means. She NEVER says more than she needs to. Of course that's all a matter of opinion, but I think a good deal of her android nature is reflected in the fact that her dialogue is perfectly on-target, and she excels (sp?) at hiding her emotions.

She is, in many (but not all) ways the polar opposite of Angel. Where Angel is long-winded and talkative, Dorothy is concentrated. There would be much more dialogue in any given situation if there were a character taking Dorothy's place in that situation. Is a comparative study really fair game? I'd say it is, because one is led to question exactly what basis there is for saying Dorothy is or isn't a conversationalist.

In short, that's my own long-winded way of saying Dorothy's the quiet type. I'm sure Dorothy could've put it better (and shorter).