Why I would pick Dorothy over Angel?

quote:

Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato quote: Originally posted by Master P Caption: I know you don't like me, Dorothy, but I like you! (more than friends) -Master P Gee whiz, it's just an innocent sleepover!

I don't know...

I think a bottle of champagne, some Al Green (or Barry White), and candles would set this scene just right....

What am I talking about?

MUST REPENT BAD THOUGHTS....

Between Dorothy and Angel I would pick Angel. She's just somehow more appealing...

quote:

Originally posted by tvperez quote: Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato quote: Originally posted by Master P Caption: I know you don't like me, Dorothy, but I like you! (more than friends) -Master P Gee whiz, it's just an innocent sleepover! I don't know... I think a bottle of champagne, some Al Green (or Barry White), and candles would set this scene just right.... What am I talking about? MUST REPENT BAD THOUGHTS....

Well I guess I do have to repeat myself.
Anyway the request I made was for Roger to come home and find that situation waiting just for him. Not to imply that Dorothy and Angel had done anything themselves at all, but simply waiting for Roger to get home from work.

quote:

Originally posted by R_Dorothy_Wayneright Oh, and thanks for that lovely pic of the two gals in bed, you just HAD to go and give me an idea for a slash fic. ^_~ *LOL*

There's not a whole lot of plot in that picture ...

I have a hard time taking the slash angle seriously. Dorothy belongs to Roger, heart and soul, and Angel is very focused on men (one look at her wardrobe tells you that). It would probably be easier to write convincing slash fiction featuring rocks than Angel and Dorothy.

quote:

Originally posted by Lady Tesser I think it's very unfair of having to 'choose' between one or the other, as both are obviously the extreme aspects of the 'Madonna-Whore' Complex. Dorothy is the 'Madonna' - the pure one, the homebody, the one for comfort and safety. Everything about her screams innocence and making her an android (toy) keeps it that way. Angel is the 'Whore' - the wild one, the one who uses her physical traits to get anything, willing to dump people out of her life if they don't prove useful. She is constantly asserting her sexiness by dress, posture, and conversation. I'm not saying either is bad, I just fine the whole thing funny - Roger gets both types of women when (ideally) both aspects should be in one person.

You know, this screams out to be potential fanfic fodder. What if they were one person, somehow split into two opposites during the last reset? And after the one in The Show Must Go On they reintegrated (either fully, or just both of them in one body).

And since it was your observation you can start writing it for us.

quote:

Originally posted by Lady Tesser I think it's very unfair of having to 'choose' between one or the other, as both are obviously the extreme aspects of the 'Madonna-Whore' Complex.

They fit broadly into those categories, but then so do most female characters in popular entertainments (there are always the "good" and "bad" girls). I think rather than being extremes of the types, Dorothy and Angel are rough and occasionally awkward fits at best. Yes, Dorothy's loyal, true, and "pure," but she's also secretive, snarky, deadpan, and opinionated (and she's sure made it pretty clear that if it weren't for Roger's stupid household rules she wouldn't be caught dead in that dress ). Angel is a little more stereotypical, but even she is a member of the Union, which for all its iffy goals and iffier morality at least fancies itself a group force for social change and therefore qualifies as an interest that's not purely selfish.

It's interesting to examine women's roles in the series, and even more interesting that even as Roger is specifically challenged to "save the maiden[s]," often as not they end up saving themselves. Or him. [G]

quote:

There's not a whole lot of plot in that picture ... I have a hard time taking the slash angle seriously. Dorothy belongs to Roger, heart and soul, and Angel is very focused on men (one look at her wardrobe tells you that). It would probably be easier to write convincing slash fiction featuring rocks than Angel and Dorothy.

Ah, but that's where the fiction comes in! ^_~ I mean if it didn't happen, obviously its up for embellishments and added snippets. There are ways about it, and with a slash fic master for a best friend, it's not too hard to work it out. *lol*

Besides, slash isn't always meant to be taken seriously...0=P Did you ever read the story of the Arby's Oven Mitt and his affair with the Hamburger Helper Glove? *giggles* All in good fun. ^_^

quote:

Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato quote: Originally posted by R_Dorothy_Wayneright Oh, and thanks for that lovely pic of the two gals in bed, you just HAD to go and give me an idea for a slash fic. ^_~ *LOL* There's not a whole lot of plot in that picture ... I have a hard time taking the slash angle seriously. Dorothy belongs to Roger, heart and soul, and Angel is very focused on men (one look at her wardrobe tells you that). It would probably be easier to write convincing slash fiction featuring rocks than Angel and Dorothy.

Trust me, whether or not it makes sense is never, EVER an issue in slash fics, accirding to some I've seen.

quote:

Originally posted by Lady Tesser I think it's very unfair of having to 'choose' between one or the other, as both are obviously the extreme aspects of the 'Madonna-Whore' Complex.

They're both drawn as if that's what they are. But their actions belie their appearances. Dorothy's value to Roger is not primarily domestic; she saves his bacon any number of times, and is of tremendous value to him on cases and in emergencies. Angel is much the same. They never even make it to first base, so you can hardly claim that sex is the be-all and end-all in their relationship. Angel is also very handy to have around in a crisis. She also spends the entire series leaking information to Roger, one way or another, including practically leading him by the hand in some episodes.

It takes the combined efforts of both women to keep Roger alive through the series. Defining them in terms of kitchen and bedroom doesn't come close to doing either of them justice.

quote:

Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato quote: Originally posted by Lady Tesser I think it's very unfair of having to 'choose' between one or the other, as both are obviously the extreme aspects of the 'Madonna-Whore' Complex. They're both drawn as if that's what they are. But their actions belie their appearances. Dorothy's value to Roger is not primarily domestic; she saves his bacon any number of times, and is of tremendous value to him on cases and in emergencies. Angel is much the same. They never even make it to first base, so you can hardly claim that sex is the be-all and end-all in their relationship. Angel is also very handy to have around in a crisis. She also spends the entire series leaking information to Roger, one way or another, including practically leading him by the hand in some episodes. It takes the combined efforts of both women to keep Roger alive through the series. Defining them in terms of kitchen and bedroom doesn't come close to doing either of them justice.

They are complete, the way they are. The merging of Dorothy and Angel wouldn't make a complete person, it would make a more complex person (Dorothy is a bit more complex than I initially thought).

Dorothy is not a typical android, who follows the typical laws of programming. A computer cannot override a program once it is loaded into the execution stack. When Beck had Dorothy under his control, she (her self essence, spirit if you will) was able to break (through short circuiting) away. This means she in more than a mere sum of programs, but a truly thinking person.

As for Angel, I don't think there are many people here who really thinks of her as a whore. Personally, I believe Angel to be misunderstood. She does bad deeds for the right reasons and good deeds for the wrong reason. At first, she supplied Roger with information, only to be led to potentially valuable Memories.

spoiler (highlight to read):

However, she became genuinely helpfuil towards the end. Her loving and caring self became self evident during the last episode.

But, it comes down to taste. I like the fact that Dorothy is strong and more capable of forcing her will on others, yet she doesn't. When I see her character, I think of the Biblical verse:

spoiler (highlight to read):

"Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.

She isn't flashy or intimidating, so she is less threatening than a person like Angel.

Then again, that is my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Ben quote: Originally posted by Lady Tesser I think it's very unfair of having to 'choose' between one or the other, as both are obviously the extreme aspects of the 'Madonna-Whore' Complex. Dorothy is the 'Madonna' - the pure one, the homebody, the one for comfort and safety. Everything about her screams innocence and making her an android (toy) keeps it that way. Angel is the 'Whore' - the wild one, the one who uses her physical traits to get anything, willing to dump people out of her life if they don't prove useful. She is constantly asserting her sexiness by dress, posture, and conversation. I'm not saying either is bad, I just fine the whole thing funny - Roger gets both types of women when (ideally) both aspects should be in one person. You know, this screams out to be potential fanfic fodder. What if they were one person, somehow split into two opposites during the last reset? And after the one in The Show Must Go On they reintegrated (either fully, or just both of them in one body). And since it was your observation you can start writing it for us.

Is that a edited funny picture challenge? ACT!

quote:

Originally posted by Wingnut What if they were one person, somehow split into two opposites during the last reset? And after the one in The Show Must Go On they reintegrated (either fully, or just both of them in one body). And since it was your observation you can start writing it for us.

quote:

Is that a edited funny picture challenge? ACT!

Didn't I already do that one? Twice in one picture?



I thought so!

The two women aren't opposites in any meaningful sense. They are both practical, capable, independent-thinking women who are deeply attached to Roger Smith in spite of receiving less than enthusiastic encouragement from him. (Though in fact he's deeply attached to both of them.)

Angel is highly verbal and volatile, while Dorothy is quiet and calm (at least outwardly). While Angel's sense in clothes clearly shows that the two questions that dominate her thinking are, "How provocative can I get away with being in this context?" and "Can I get it in pink?," we don't really know anything about Dorothy's taste in clothes, since we never see her buy or wear a single garment that we know she chose to please herself.

Personally, I've always felt that the distinction between "good girls" and "bad girls" was a lot of hooey. Members of the two groups never seemed very different to me, when it came right down to it, except in superficial ways that they tended to outgrow as they left their teens.

quote:

Originally posted by X Prime I, too, would have to pick Dorothy. I'm not a very.. social person, and I like the quiet, witty type of person. Plus, I love the dress.

Yeah, there is something about Dorothy's stark black-and-white signature dress. It contributes to the Jane Eyre-ish aura of loneliness and ... what? Emotional repression? that Dorothy has.

People call it a "maid's uniform," but I'm not sure that's right. It doesn't seem like a regular maid's *work* uniform, anyway. It seems too formal and dressy, and plenty good enough to go out shopping and even on cases with Roger in. Frankly, I like it *better* than her red party dress or the green outfit she first appeared in. It seems like more of an integral element of her personality.

We saw Dorothy dressed up like a regular maid with a frilly apron and cap -- both dirty, BTW -- playing the piano to wake up Roger near the beginning of Act 15: "Negotiations With the Dead."

Besides being angry about being awakened before 3:00 in the afternoon, Roger seemed exasperated by the change in her costume: "What are you doing up here, dressed like *that*?!" he demanded to know. She said she'd been helping Norman, but I suspect the change of costume was intended as a subtle dig at Roger, a way of saying "You've been taking me too much for granted, treating me too much like a domestic servant, instead of the partner/comrade/friend (and perhaps something more) that I am." She said something about tradition, too, but I couldn't tell if she was refderring to a traditional maid's uniform, or to the household "tradition" of jolting Roger awake with her piano playing.

Doc

People seem to think that the black dress is her choosing. Like she is some dark demure subserviant female when in fact it was Roger's insistance that she wear her black dress. Dorothy is constantly talking about his terrible choice in clothing and shows a fiesty side in tense moments.

I think she is actually quite outgoing and firey. She just gets suppressed by Wainwright who wants her to act like his dead daughter and by Roger who is too demanding for obediance.

Give her a credit card and trip to Victoria Secret and you would see Dorothy warm things up!

taaudoloran

quote:

Originally posted by taaudoloran People seem to think that the black dress is her choosing. Like she is some dark demure subserviant female when in fact it was Roger's insistance that she wear her black dress. Dorothy is constantly talking about his terrible choice in clothing and shows a fiesty side in tense moments. I think she is actually quite outgoing and firey. She just gets suppressed by Wainwright who wants her to act like his dead daughter and by Roger who is too demanding for obediance. Give her a credit card and trip to Victoria Secret and you would see Dorothy warm things up! taaudoloran

Keep dreaming bub.
Although it would be interesting to see what Dorothy would choose to wear if she could pick anything she chose to. I wonder what her fashion sence would be like.

quote:

Originally posted by taaudoloran People seem to think that the black dress is her choosing. Like she is some dark demure subserviant female when in fact it was Roger's insistance that she wear her black dress. Dorothy is constantly talking about his terrible choice in clothing and shows a fiesty side in tense moments. I think she is actually quite outgoing and firey. She just gets suppressed by Wainwright who wants her to act like his dead daughter and by Roger who is too demanding for obediance. Give her a credit card and trip to Victoria Secret and you would see Dorothy warm things up! taaudoloran

Well, I'll go along with the idea that she didn't pick it out, and she may dislike it. But she wears it very well. I mean I think it really does something for her. It's got this sober-severe 19th century Brontean-Dickensian thing going on. Maybe I've just got some kind of thing for women in black. (No, not black leather or underwear; just *black*.) "Black is slimming," of course, but Dorothy, at size three, doesn't need any slimming.

Doc

dorothy is one hot lil number! ever thou she a android i would date her! i trust her more then i do angel!

Where did u get those pics, i dont remember that scene at all

quote:

Originally posted by DOA SOBF Where did u get those pics, i dont remember that scene at all

If you mean the one with Dorothy's head on Angel's body, and vice versa, it was me. I admit it. I took a screen shot of the last scene in Act 26 and messed with it.

Check out the Retouched Images Thread, over in Nightengale.

For the record, I prefer Dorothy to Angel, but I like Angel, too, and I want them both! (Gasp! And him a married man!)