Metropolis

1:30 in the freaking morning (not 11:30). I couldn't stay up that late.

Damn, I wish we had a working recorder in the house.

WAAAAHHHH!!!!

I've been meaning to track down some version of it..(NOT the '80s one, as...the concept just sounds gimmicky to me).

Probably never will, but hey, I found birth of a nation on dvd a while ago, so who knows.

Lady Tesser, I couldn't stay up to see it either. But I did manage to have a working VCR, and got it to record at the right times. So I've finally gotten to see Metropolis. I have to say I really liked it.

I really do agree, Freder looks like Roger (and his name kinda sounds similar in a weird way). Even has the same type of fits when weird stuff happens (seeing the Heart Machine as Moloch eating the workers is much the same as images of armies of Bigs smashing the world). The Mediator/Negotiator thing is also interesting. THe most interesting difference, however, is that Freder dresses all in white where Roger dresses all in black.

The Thin Man reminds me of Alan Gabriel (who's quite thin himself). Creepy, wears a black suit, stands at attention. All he needs is a spinning drill hand and a psychotic laugh.

Rotwang reminds me a bit of Wayneright. Obsessed with bringing someone back from the dead via a robotic duplicate, lives in a rundown old house on the outskirts, crazy hair.

THis might be stretching it a bit, but Josaphat = Dastun? Loyal employes the ruling class thrown out to the masses and wind up working against the rulers for a time.

quote:

Originally posted by BigPrime Rotwang reminds me a bit of Wayneright. Obsessed with bringing someone back from the dead via a robotic duplicate, lives in a rundown old house on the outskirts, crazy hair. THis might be stretching it a bit, but Josaphat = Dastun? Loyal employes the ruling class thrown out to the masses and wind up working against the rulers for a time.

Josaphat? Don't remember who he is. Where shall we throw Dorothy and Angel into this? Dorothy could be considered the android, but later considered Maria. Freder's father is sort of Alex. The city's are very similar too. You have the same Gothic style with some classy futuristic(sp) gadgets. I see a lot of the similarities now.

quote:

It has a lot more similarities to Big O now that we ended up with a Season 2. Wow...It has a lot more similarities to Big O now that we ended up with a Season 2. Wow...Roger as the Moderator between the director and the actors. Interesting concept.

I mentioned this in page one. We see Freder as the mediator between head guys and workers, while Roger is the negotiator between the actors and the director: Angel. Hence, Roger and Freder are the mediators between head and heart. (*prepares for tomatoes to be thrown at her*)

I'm renting it again (put it on hold today, should get it by...Weds hopefully.) So I plan to watch it again! (On DVD. I will watch the extras this time)

Later,
Pen1300

Josaphat was Joh Fredersen's aide. He was relieved of his position for a trivial offense (allowing Chief Foreman Grot to deliver the plans to Fredersen rather than delivering them himself). Freder at first managed to keep him from being banished to the underground, but the Thin Man managed to give him the boot. It was Josaphat and Freder who broke down the barricade allowing the worker's children to escape the flooding worker city.

The Thin Man freaks me out...

I think the parallels worth this way:

Alex Rosewater ------- Joh Frederson

Roger Smith ------------ Freder Frederson

Wayneright or Schwarzwald ------------- Rotwang

Angel --------------------- Hel

Dorothy ------------------ Ultima (except on a different side...hmmm)

Datsun ------------------- Grot


The interesting thing to me is that if Angel is actually supposed to be the "Maria" in this scenario...that would imply that Dorothy is somehow representative of Angel.

So where do the Megadeuses fit into this? Everyone always leaves the poor, neglected Megadeuses out of their theories. And Norman, too.

Well, there were a number of house-staff type people in Metropolis. None quite as cool as Norman Burg, though. Which is a shame, because I'd never want a butler any less cool than Norman myself.

And the M-Machine could be considered akin to the Megadei. Great machines that are essentially "gods" of the world.

Actually....I would think that Norman could be an even bigger figure. He is suspiciously underplayed in the series, but with a hint of knowledge unrevealed. I say Norman is....Fritz Lang!

And the megadeuses would be equivalent to the Heart Machine, Head Machine....

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Stevens I think the parallels worth this way: Alex Rosewater ------- Joh Frederson Roger Smith ------------ Freder Frederson Wayneright or Schwarzwald ------------- Rotwang Angel --------------------- Hel Dorothy ------------------ Ultima (except on a different side...hmmm) Datsun ------------------- Grot The interesting thing to me is that if Angel is actually supposed to be the "Maria" in this scenario...that would imply that Dorothy is somehow representative of Angel.

Interesting matchups there, although the Ultima one does stretch it a little bit too far...

Yeah. I actually associate Dorothy more with the Hel character, but since Ultima was an android and created by Rotwang as a replacement for Hel (though in the image of Maria), that's where I went with that. Although Angel as Ultima kind of works...but not really.

Could anyone follow that?

And this is a bit off topic...but I was wondering if anyone had done an Asimov related thread?

Interesting thread...

Everyone seems to assume that Fake Maria ("Ultima") is Dorothy. I think that the Megadei fit this role much better. Joh Fredersen, the Master of Metropolis, had Rotwang create Fake Maria to control the Underground. Rotwang's original intent was to create a replica of the woman he loved, Hel. So after a fashion, Rotwang programs Fake Maria to destroy the city.

Compared to The Big O, Wayneright created R.Dorothy to mimic his beloved granddaughter, Dorothy. Who's to say that he did not have a hand in creating the original Megadei? It seems that their original intent was to serve mankind, "The power of God in the hands of Man." Instead, the Bigs turned on mankind reducing the City to ashes.

The means to save Metropolis/Paradigm then rests in the hands of the Mediator/Negotiator who was once part of the establishment. In the case of Metropolis, it is Joh's son, Freder. In the case of Paradigm, Roger Smith, who was once part of the military which may have tried utilizing the Megadei, is the one who can save the people.

Maria was the one who reminded the Underground of the past in her telling of the Tower of Babel. She sparked their memories for change. An intersting role considering Angel controls the memories of Paradigm after a fashion. Freder's relationship to Maria helped him to assume the role of the Mediator, just as Roger's relationship with Angel helped him save Paradigm in the end from Big Venus.

Though I've only seen the anime movie "Metropolis" (well...all except for the last 10 minutes DAMN THAT VCR!!!)...I think I can draw my own theories from it. If the anime movie is COMPLETELY different from the book Metropolis...pleeeeaaasse don't be too harsh on me!! ;_;

If you allow "Big O" to be heavily based on "Metropolis" (just for this idea of mine) it'll make a bit more sense.
The Android girl appears to be the main idea behind Dorothy: emotionless, without an identity or a 'purpose'. The resemblence (sp?) is uncanny...however, there is one big difference. Dorothy is not the android girl, not entirely. Angel is also half of her. Angel seems to be on a mission (towards the end of SeasonII at any rate) to find out who she is. She is the one who gets to make the decision and assume the power. But here is where is gets complicated. The ziggurat is the megadeus. *No not Big O or Big Fau...but Big Venus. Although one might think that it is Big O because Dorothy assimilates with it, or maybe it's Big Fau because her memories are taken away and used to "power" Big Fau (core memories..close enough)...it's really Big Venus that is the ziggurat. The machine that can control the world, which is, in this case, being able to erase memories and begin the world again. The erasing of memories seems to be a very drawn out theme that was part of what was mentioned towards the end of "Metropolis"about the android girl when she becomes part of the computer weapon. Alex Rosewater is most probably based on the man who wanted to control the world in "Metropolis"...so let's move on The man who lead the Revolution movement appears to be the basis of Vera Ronstadt....and Alan Gabriel appears to be linked to the "son" of the man who wanted ultimate power.

The only character I find that is "up in the air", so to speak, is the detective. To me, he seems to be the Michael Seebach of Metropolis...only much more sane and not a mummy. He was on a case and was searching for the truth, he found it and at the end you see what it is he found. In Big O, Schwarzwald never says what he's found, but if you can look at Metropolis and compare the two, you'll find his "Truth".


This leaves Roger Smith. From the movie I saw (well the 92% of it that I taped) I can't really find a character that really resembles Roger Smith's personality or type. Some may saw Roger is like the detective or the nephew...but I'm not certain. Sure you can argue "he was in love with Dorothy! That means he's the nephew!"...but I can also say "But the nephew isn't like Roger in too many other crucial aspects". I'm not saying Roger can't be the nephew, because I've not entirely made up my mind about it.


And there I end my post here...my brain is mush and I'm starting to think incomprehisibly...goodnight

As for me, I found Metropolis to be unwatchable: a lame melodrama with a few SF trappings. The dialog and plot were so bad that I regretted that the version I watched had subtitles in English. It would have been far better with, say, Chinese subtitles.

So I figure that The Big O can't have taken much from Metropolis, since there wasn't much there to take.

Edit: I mean Fritz Lang's so-called classic version.

quote:

Originally posted by evanASF27 Though I've only seen the anime movie "Metropolis" (well...all except for the last 10 minutes DAMN THAT VCR!!!)...I think I can draw my own theories from it. If the anime movie is COMPLETELY different from the book Metropolis...pleeeeaaasse don't be too harsh on me!! ;_;

The anime Metropolis is quite different from Fritz Lang's 1927 version. The anime is only superficially related to the original. One good place to look on the web for information about Fritz Lang's version is http://www.kino.com/metropolis/

quote:

Originally posted by Avenger quote: Originally posted by evanASF27 Though I've only seen the anime movie "Metropolis" (well...all except for the last 10 minutes DAMN THAT VCR!!!)...I think I can draw my own theories from it. If the anime movie is COMPLETELY different from the book Metropolis...pleeeeaaasse don't be too harsh on me!! ;_; The anime Metropolis is quite different from Fritz Lang's 1927 version. The anime is only superficially related to the original. One good place to look on the web for information about Fritz Lang's version is http://www.kino.com/metropolis/

well that throws my theory out the window...