Give me a kiss!

Zola 11-11-2003 09:18 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Pygmalion
I hate to splash cold water on all this overheated fan-tasy, but as someone who has actually done mouth-to-mouth, let me tell you


Well, let's see.

Inconsistency number one:Roger was underwater, dying, but not fighting. Sorry, but when you run out of air, you don't lie there limply and accept it--even if you want to die, your body doesn't. By rights, he should have been already connected to the Big O if that was all that was going to save him

Inconsistency number two: When she busted the tank open, as was already pointed out, the pressure should have smeared him all over the control room.

Inconsistancy number three: With that much water in his lungs (when we see her reach him, he is passed out just about), he should have coughed a lot longer AND vomited no matter how he was revived.

Inconsistency number four: After the water was out of the cockpit, both he and Dorothy's hair and clothing was perfectly dry.

Given this, allow me to suspend belief a little further and enjoy that picture, you unromantic soul you! Big Grin
Executor 11-11-2003 09:37 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. ?
They should have just stared making out until Big Venus erased the ocean. Powerful , moving, deep now that would have been good. Thats how you get whiped of the face of the planet....seriously that would have been a good ending...


I have this image of Venus erasing the domes, and then just standing there tapping it's foot and looking around impatiently. Then we cut back to the cockpit of Big O, still at the bottom of the ocean, to see Roger and Dorothy both disheveled and smoking cigarettes. Big Grin
mAc Chaos 11-11-2003 09:47 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Zola
quote:
Originally posted by Pygmalion
I hate to splash cold water on all this overheated fan-tasy, but as someone who has actually done mouth-to-mouth, let me tell you


Well, let's see.

Inconsistency number one:Roger was underwater, dying, but not fighting. Sorry, but when you run out of air, you don't lie there limply and accept it--even if you want to die, your body doesn't. By rights, he should have been already connected to the Big O if that was all that was going to save him

Inconsistency number two: When she busted the tank open, as was already pointed out, the pressure should have smeared him all over the control room.

Inconsistancy number three: With that much water in his lungs (when we see her reach him, he is passed out just about), he should have coughed a lot longer AND vomited no matter how he was revived.

Inconsistency number four: After the water was out of the cockpit, both he and Dorothy's hair and clothing was perfectly dry.

Given this, allow me to suspend belief a little further and enjoy that picture, you unromantic soul you! Big Grin


1) If you become unconscious due to lack of air you will not respond like that. You'll just sink to the depths into the comforting arms of death... So it isn't an inconsistency, provided he lacked the air... And since he was UNDERWATER...

2) What makes you say that? Not necessarily disagreeing; just curious.

3) True. But it's a cartoon, and they don't have time for Roger to be hacking up his lungs for ten minutes, let alone enough time to conclude the show.

4) Ha ha, deal.
Zola 11-11-2003 09:54 PM
quote:
Originally posted by mAc Chaos
Well, let's see.

1) If you become unconscious due to lack of air you will not respond like that. You'll just sink to the depths into the comforting arms of death... So it isn't an inconsistency, provided he lacked the air... And since he was UNDERWATER...



Sure you will when you first run out of air. Not after a minute or two, sure, but that's why trying to save someone who is drowning is so dangerous to a lifeguard. The person is thrashing around and will grab anything, including the hapless lifeguard and can drown them. That's why you are trained to toss the person a towel or shirt if you don't have a flotation device of some kind.

quote:
Originally posted by mAc Chaos
2) What makes you say that? Not necessarily disagreeing; just curious.


This was brought up in another thread, but the tanks are under quite a bit of pressure. Had she just opened the valve, it would have been fine, but breaking it is another story.

quote:
Originally posted by mAc Chaos
3) True. But it's a cartoon, and they don't have time for Roger to be hacking up his lungs for ten minutes, let alone enough time to conclude the show.


Exactly. My point exactly. If the rest of it is pure fantasy, why can't I enjoy an unrealistic but VERY romantic picture? Wink

quote:
Originally posted by mAc Chaos
4) Ha ha, deal.


No! I LIKE bedhead Roger. Embarrassed Sweatdrop
mAc Chaos 11-11-2003 09:58 PM
Ah, good post.

However, I would like to say that just because we didn't see it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. At least, it wasn't important so it got glossed over.

After all, when we see him, he's got the water up to the area just below his mouth.

When we see him again, he's fully submerged and half-conscious.
CoCoaPuFF CatX 11-11-2003 10:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by GummiBear289
I would have loved a kiss! It would have been perfect. But in Japan kissing is a very intimate thing. I mean sex whatever, nudity they don't care but kissing is the exchanging of saliva so it makes it a very intimate moment to share. I would have wanted Dorothy and Roger to kiss but then again Japanese view things differently. I'm sure when Dorothy and Roger kiss it's going to be this whole big elaborate scene signifing the importance of the moment like in most anime. Big Grin

awwwww...... i wish that would happen but roger being roger that would take a while! sheesh! we need the little mermaid song kiss de gurl! lol
CoCoaPuFF CatX 11-11-2003 10:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Tesser
Mr. ? - I like how you think. If you're gonna get erased, go out doing a good memory!

Sadly, I think he was being mind-on-the-moment and not reaching out. However, I still want to believe this happened -

Awwww........ Lady T. once again you have touched my heart!! whaaaaaa.......!
Jr. 11-11-2003 11:13 PM
I disagree completely. I think Roger's tone indicates he was more like "Uh, what other easier method would there have been?" Plus, it sounded awkward. CPR via an android? I don't think it was ever shown to be a fact he feels "that way" about Dorothy.

The strongest evidence is at the end, when the whole thing hits the fan, he doesn't run up and hug Dorothy or say anything mushy or anything stupid, he stands defiantly against the Anal Retentive Big Venus. He doesn't even turn around and face her, he just stares at death. Roger is one STONE COLD MFer. I think once this is taken into account, it's clear Roger had no intention of kissing Dorothy.
Pygmalion 11-12-2003 12:14 AM
You are right, Zola, and I apologize. Let the hormones flow again.

Pygmalion
Executor 11-12-2003 01:26 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Jr.
I disagree completely. I think Roger's tone indicates he was more like "Uh, what other easier method would there have been?" Plus, it sounded awkward. CPR via an android? I don't think it was ever shown to be a fact he feels "that way" about Dorothy.

The strongest evidence is at the end, when the whole thing hits the fan, he doesn't run up and hug Dorothy or say anything mushy or anything stupid, he stands defiantly against the Anal Retentive Big Venus. He doesn't even turn around and face her, he just stares at death. Roger is one STONE COLD MFer. I think once this is taken into account, it's clear Roger had no intention of kissing Dorothy.


Die.
assemblyline 11-12-2003 05:03 AM
"Die"

haha, what a classic reply.

Seriously though Jr, I find it hard to believe that Roger while being annoyed at the suddenness of the water evacuation, could only think to suggest mouth to mouth if he wasn't trying to suggest, in his usual overblown playboy way, what he really wanted.

Your right, Roger is stone cold. That is why he won't come out and just say what he feels. He doesn't want to show weakness to anybody. And at the end, well I think anybody will agree that there were more importiant things to do... like negotiate. So that proves nothing.

If you really feel that there is no potential for romance in this series I am sorry to say that you are missing out on a large aspect of it. Just how many times have the writers shown androids mistaken for humans, human/android relationships, folks remarking how Roger and Dorothy make a fine couple, Beck accusing them of being lovers. I don't think the writers put that stuff in by mistake.

I could have told you in season 1 that they were never going to kiss, because it just doesn't happen in a lot of anime. However, that in no way means that they don't have feelings for each other.
Shady Dark Lady 11-12-2003 09:55 AM
One of things many people fail to remember is that the Japanese are very subtle when it comes to romantic feelings. My mom is an old fashioned Japanese woman and she used to change the channel when people would hold hands! Also, she didn't hug/kiss or say I love you to me when I was a child, because in her culture, it was enough to take care of your child. I guess the easiest way to explain it is "I work so you can have a roof over your head, I take care of you when you are sick, I cook,clean for you, therefore you should already know I love you.."
This is why in anime you don't see alot of kissing and the such. What we consider subtle is probally like screaming "I love You" in their culture.
C.R Foxhound 11-12-2003 09:56 AM
man, these kids are beating around so much, the bush is practically falling apart

just get it over with!!!!!!

if those did have a love, expect apologze to play over and over and over(or maybe if Roger if feeling a little more frisy than usual, maybe Sure promise Big Grin )

and BTW, would Roger be jealous of household appliances?
A Clockwork Tomato 11-12-2003 10:44 AM
Now there are several different, but related questions to keep in mind here:

Q. Will Roger and Dorothy ever kiss on-camera?

A. Send fan mail to Adult Swim declaring that you will be their slave forever if this happens. Sunrise can always leave it out of the Japanese version.

Q. Does Dorothy love Roger?

A. Of course she does. Watch the show. Geez.

Q. Does Roger love Dorothy?

A. In the sense of (as someone else put it, on a different thread) a pure, "die for you" kind of love, absolutely.

In the sense of, "the camera pans to show the fireplace while, off camera, a series of shrieks is followed by a rendition of 'Oh, sweet mystery of life, at last I've found you!'", this is open to debate.

Q. I thought we were talking about kissing?

A. The physical end is all one issue. If Roger thinks that holding Dorothy in his arms has about the same appeal as making out with a mannequin in a department store, then the physical side will be nonexistent. If she turns him on, then things will be different. The R+D 4evR fans (I am one) hope with varying degrees of intensity that the physical side wont' be a washout.

Other people think that the physical side is sort of ludicrous. There's some evidence within the show that implies that Dorothy is not warm, soft, and cuddly in any conventional sense. But it's best not to argue the point too loudly with the more dedicated Roger-Dorothy fans, especially near sharp objects!
Zola 11-12-2003 12:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato
Other people think that the physical side is sort of ludicrous. There's some evidence within the show that implies that Dorothy is not warm, soft, and cuddly in any conventional sense. But it's best not to argue the point too loudly with the more dedicated Roger-Dorothy fans, especially near sharp objects!


Honestly, and I have looked at a couple of different possibilities in my fanfic, it depends on exactly how Dorothy is made. Does she have some kind of sense of touch? I would say yes, otherwise she wouldn't be able to manipulate the world around her.

That's from a purely pragmatic chain of reasoning, btw, not romantic wishfulness. A database that contained the properties of every possible object that Dorothy might encounter would be impossibly huge. My desk alone probably has 1000 different items on it, and we're talking an area of maybe 4 square feet. If I were making an android, I'd use the human sense of touch as my model because it's darned efficient. She does say at one point "even I can sense temperature" so there's at least one hint that she does have some kind of sensory feedback system.

I don't know that she is soft and cuddly, but I doubt she is exactly metallic either. Her metal shell has some kind of covering for sure, because we see no exposed joints in her hands when she plays the piano. We have no way of knowing if that covering is thick or thin, but it's got to be at least 1/4 to 1/8 of an inch thick, and flexible, otherwise we would see the joints moving underneath. Think of the covering on the handle of a hammer or on a pair of pliers, which are perfectly comfortable to touch or hold. Same thing but slightly thicker and not plastic looking, I would think, otherwise no one would ever mistake her for a human, not even for an instant.

The only difference that Roger makes note of is her weight. He doesn't seem the least bit uncomfortable holding her except for the effort involved. It's probably really no different than hugging a skinny human being.

I suppose this means that I think about Dorothy way too much, but the engineering aspect of it has really grabbed my imagination, honestly. Embarrassed Sweatdrop Embarrassed Sweatdrop Embarrassed Sweatdrop Embarrassed Sweatdrop
A Clockwork Tomato 11-12-2003 12:46 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Zola
I suppose this means that I think about Dorothy way too much, but the engineering aspect of it has really grabbed my imagination, honestly. Embarrassed Sweatdrop Embarrassed Sweatdrop Embarrassed Sweatdrop Embarrassed Sweatdrop


[Scratches head.] Gee, I'm not sure what you mean. Could you draw me a picture?

Or, better yet, a video?
YZEtc 11-12-2003 12:46 PM
Mine, too.
That has always been one of my favorite sci-fi themes.

And Roger's not alone.
Another example is Deckard and Rachael from the movie The Blade Runner.
Zola 11-12-2003 01:03 PM
quote:
Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato
[Scratches head.] Gee, I'm not sure what you mean. Could you draw me a picture?


hahahahah

Did you read Beneath the Surface? I really did go into a lot of it in detail.
A Clockwork Tomato 11-12-2003 01:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Zola
Did you read Beneath the Surface? I really did go into a lot of it in detail.


Yes, I did. It was well-conceived, consistent, and plausible. I just couldn't stop thinking, "Timothy Wayneright, you are a dirty old man."

(Though if he'd left the naughty bits out, I would have thought, "TImothy Wayneright, you are a disgusting old prude." There's just no pleasing some people.)
Mr. ? 11-12-2003 01:52 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Pygmalion
Inconsistency number four: After the water was out of the cockpit, both he and Dorothy's hair and clothing was perfectly dry.


Thats easy to explain, they are both scochguarded. Big Grin