BIG O religion/God connections -(facinating, revealing stuff)...Season 3 and 4 News...

I thought we decieded that Fau was the real leviathan of the sea and that o was the behemoth of land. Which makes more sense than a couple crappy archetypes. There was also another beast called ziz, that could be applied to big duo.

Hey thanks for you insight and trust me, the part about angel being lucifer and not Christ was biting me in the ass as it was the one questionable part to my otherwise plausible and in my opinion certain theory.


But anyways I purposely avoided to include Angel in my theory since I am still debating whether or not Venus can be called God himself serving final judgement or if she serves as a fallen angel(lucifer). That modification would also switch Roger to the position of Jesus Christ and this also would be acceptable. But I feel the general motif is supposed to be about the Apocalypse, that being the biblical one, since it fits so perfectly in the ongoing images of religion and tyranny present in the show. For those who would argue against it by placing more meaning in how Roger was an android chew on this>>>>>>

Ok what if the Androids are actually servants of God since what would be the perfect representative of God himself, the answer is an android. Why, well as I said humans themselves are ultimately impure animals filled with fault(through their egotism and selfish nature). So why would God choose an imperfect being to represent himself when he can just use an android which has no impurities or faults and is just as perfect as the supreme being himself. This fact could explain why only an Android like Roger can pilot Big O and why other androids seem to have such a strong connection to the bigs themselves, such as Dorothy. But why then would Alan Gabriel be able to pilot BigDuo, well thats because he was soon found "ye guilty" for his human nature and thus not able to pilot Big Duo in the end. But this fails to explain why a human like Alex Rosewater can pilot Big Fau, and well that may very well be since Fau finally received "memories" or for that matter kind of a android key as represented through Dorothy's "android" memories. So that Fau found Alex "not guilty of sin(human nature)" and let him pilot.

Why then would Big Ear then be an android, well the answer to that lies in the fact that Big Ear is the voice of God who receives Gods messages(through his ear piece) and relates them to an unknowing servant, with that being Roger himself. Only perfect beings can wield the power of God or for that matter receive his will like Big Ear does.
And it turns out that everyone with any connection with God turns out to be an Android like Roger, Big Ear,and possibly Schwarzwald.

Well thats all I got for now so enjoy it and discuss. I will be back to post more breakthroughs when I get them.


Actually Im really sure I got the basic meaning of the end, but right now my theory is tentative and constantly receiving small changes but the basic meaning of the Show still in my mind remains as a parable about the BIBLICAL Apocalypse as found in the book of Revelations. I am still reworking and considering other parts as said in my last post. But the basic premise still remains the same. Just read and think about for yourself, its worth it.

The other thing that I noticed is even though we tend to look at Roger as a Christ Figure, one of the characters was resurrected.

That would have been Dorothy, of course. And when Beck went to her tomb, it wasn't empty, but she rose up and came to life before his unbelieving eyes.

so beck is mary magdalane?

Dam its good to have some comic releif every now and then, cuz my brain hurts from all this thinking i have been doing in the past couple of days. I swear man I missed doing an english paper last night because I couldnt stop typing out my theory, it was just flowing.

quote:

Originally posted by Advinius so beck is mary magdalane?

You scare me, Advinius. I almost said it.

quote:

Originally posted by Zola quote: Originally posted by Advinius so beck is mary magdalane? You scare me, Advinius. I almost said it.

Hey, a sinner transformed by contact with a transcendent being? You laugh now, but what if it's true?

Currently we just don't have enough data and facts to figure out to whole truth, only theorize. I belive there's more to this whole thing than we know, becuase ALOT has not been touched on within the series that was foreshadowed or presented. Ronin, I agree, the BIG O is obviously a story about the end times. However, I'm not convinced we're at the end of 'revelations' yet. Man still seems to be caught in a loop of conflict, suffering, and destruction. The strings of humanity are being pulled around and abused on this Stage from what I've seen. The human soul is trying to break free, as evident of the Roger that died (who knows how many) but still, in actuality, the most important elements have not changed yet. We don't exactly know where we are in 'revelations'. Given the loop and the still appranetly dreary state of Paradigm, I don't think we're at the end yet. And to furhter that point, the writers from BIG O are telling a METAPHORICAL telling of revelations/bible, and therefore may/are most likely putting forth their own interpretations of the history found in revelations. We can only theorize what we know, not what the masters of Paradigm know. lol. And after a while, as you mentioned, it hurts the brain! lol.

As for your theory of Roger being a robot. I think there have been Roger robots in the past maybe, but this one and this goes for Alex as well, are cloned, (natural) human beings. Roger bleeds quite a good deal in ep. 13 and 14 and fears for his life when Alan Gabriel puts a sword to his throat later on. Roger has shown no traits of being either an android or a cyborg. Him and Alex were a part of the Gordon Rosewater experements, implanting memories (where did he get them if Paradigm is completely a stage with all memories being destroyed every so many years?!-leads me to believe there's more to all this) as were many of the foreigners originally. (I think the 'memory-angel' was even involved somehow in that according to Gordon-don't recall that part). Anyways, good theory, makes a good point, but the evidence is not toally there. I don't know what those final flashbacks of episode 26 meant with the android Rogers and stuff, but I think that was not meant to be answered this season. I feel the creators tried to wrap things up as best they could so it could have an end if they never got a chance to do more, hence the 'come to terms'. But if they do get a chance, I believe there's much more to tell. Definitely more material to touch on as I see it.

If you look at the track listing of the BIG O songs, or the lyrics of theme song even, there are big to small religious references. Done intentionally I'm sure.

That other thead I was speaking of earlier that deals with more detailed proof against the simplicity of the 'Angel is the Director Period Theory'

http://www.paradigm-city.com/forums/thre...eadid=2337&sid=

quote:

Originally posted by Paradigm Dog As for your theory of Roger being a robot. I think there have been Roger robots in the past maybe, but this one and this goes for Alex as well, are cloned, (natural) human beings. Roger bleeds quite a good deal in ep. 13 and 14 and fears for his life when Alan Gabriel puts a sword to his throat later on. Roger has shown no traits of being either an android or a cyborg.

The thing about the Roger robots is that there was nothing that I saw to give us scale. They could have been toys, there is no evidence to prove that they were full size and no evidence to prove they weren't because we see nothing to give us scale. (unless you think that's a switch there on the right as they zoom out so you see more of the assembly line)

That section was actually really, really interesting because we saw several resets (I'm using the flashes of light to demarcate the different resets):

1)A normal-looking Paradigm city, flash to the pic of Roger and Gordon, Paradigm in flames with the armies of marching megadei, seemingly fighting the hyrdra and Big Venus hitting everything with laser fire with Roger apparently dead in the cockpit of the Big O, his left eye blacked out (although it's hard to say whether it is missing or in shadow, I tend to favor missing because the animators are not that un-subtle about their shading). I did some checking, and Odin also sacrificed his left eye. Do bear in mind that there are a few kicking around out there that claim he sacrificed the right one, the one I linked to seems pretty comprehensive, though.
2) A normal Paradigm city that is suddenly filling with people. It's revealed to be the world of Roger the Wanderer.
3)The assembly line is shown
4)Angel's hands on the video screen? (I see pink, but that's the only time we see those lace cuffs) Roger is seen calling Big O, then there is a cut to a tiny Dorothy doll. Was she a toy given life? Angel watching the scene of her childhood played out before her eyes.

We see the light one more time and then Dorothy is on her way. Is she again acting as Christ and interceding in Roger's certain death?

Falcon7 is going to be posting a link to Revelations 10, apparently it almost describes the first reset scene.

http://www-rcf.usc.edu/~echew/performances/revelations-10.html

BIBLE: Revelations 10

And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:

And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,

And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.

And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,

And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.

And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.

And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.

And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

I can see some connection there definitely...but what does it mean for THE BIG O anime? Is is complete? I'm not so sure... The passage from Revelation 10:

"And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings." seems to suggest there is still work to be done, eyes to be opened, truth to be found, struggles to be won. Maybe I'm interpreting it wrong? What does everyone here think? Does this support that the loop signifies the final end for the anime and Roger's quest, or does it rather suggest that what has conspired thus far is only a part, and more is yet to be told/played out?

-Seven Thunders, not sure that has been expressed in BIG O yet. ...and it says only then will time not exist... (time obviously is still going, but its trapped in a loop. Needs to be broken for next stage to occur I'd imagine.)

As I said earlier though, not everything in Revelations may run the same in BIG O's metaphorical version.

I don't know, maybe I'm trying too hard. I want to beleive there's more. Maybe the directors decided to tie up as much as they could metaphorically and you have to come up with your own interpretation. While an interesting concept, it leaves a lot to be desired. After everything, so much detail and foreshadowing, I need more concrete closure. Is everyone satisfied completely as things stand? 'Angel-director theory'?

quote:

Originally posted by Paradigm Dog

It would imply to me that it isn't done. There are more revelations, after all

Heh, I seriously hope there's more.

Thanks for the response and opinion Zola

Whoa just had another revelation(no pun intended )

Ok it talks about eyes being opened to let the people know the truth, well lets think about that for a second who would be the one character to open the eyes of the people.

That would be Scharwzwald. Dude think about it, he is the prophet in the revelations passage who is destined to open the peoples eyes to their memories(human nature anyone). OMG i just realized that and now I have another change to make in my theory, thanks alot people for this insight.

Hopefully I aim to have wrapped up my "metaphorical/literary" meaning of Big O pretty soon, and with that we can diverge more meaning into the Plot.

Just out of curiosity--does anyone know anything about the religious reading/background of the show's writers? Revelations never caught my interest--Paul's epistles are for me the most interesting parts of the New Testament--so I'll let the allegory-analysis to those who are actually competent with this sort-of thing, but I wanted to know if we actually knew anything about how much the writers would know about Christianity.

Knowledgable persons on this thread made reference to Anime's references to Judeo-Christian themes--I'm just curious if anyone knew anything about things like what parts of the Christian tradition the Big O writers might have focused more on. For example, Protestants focus much more on Revelation than Catholics for various historical/doctrinal reasons. Has Japan been more exposed to the Protestant tradition, perhaps? Or is Revelations simply better suited to a show that kinda/sorta deals with an end of the world.

And I also wonder to what extent Judeo-Christian symbolism is heavily refracted by the authors. It's clear that it's there from the get-to with the whole "Cast in the name of God" business, but I wonder how much of it gets altered in the process of borrowing. For example, with the already mentioned link of Angel to "floor" 666. Is Angel really a Satan-like character, which could be a <brilliant> plot twist as Paradigm Dog points out, or is that just an example of the writers taking a Christian symbol and re-working it a great deal? Satan is a "fallen Angel," after all, what Smith calls the Angel of Big O, but perhaps in this version, the fallen Angel can be redeemed? That, of course, is a possibility that is not allowed in the Judeo-Christian tradition.

WWSH

I tend to focus on other parts of the New Testament. Revelations seems, to me, to be, overall, beyond human understanding/comprehension. Still, from various friends/conversations and from what I have read of it, I was able to pull out the parts I did, which seem to connect in one form or another. I have no clue what denomination of Christianity the Japanese writers used, but as you say, it is evidently there 'from the get go.'

Please do not get confused.

Lucifer and Satan are not the same character/being.

If anything, Angel is a symbol for Lucifer.

Wow

quote:

Originally posted by Danial Please do not get confused. Lucifer and Satan are not the same character/being. If anything, Angel is a symbol for Lucifer.

Lucifer is the same as Satan. That is made clear throughout the entire Bible, both old and new testaments. It also talks about Lucifer's fall in Revelations. He is compared to a dragon who is cast down to earth (lost his wings?).

Here is the text of Revelation 12:

A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
"Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Christ.
For the accuser of our brothers,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.
They overcame him
by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony;
they did not love their lives so much
as to shrink from death.
Therefore rejoice, you heavens
and you who dwell in them!
But woe to the earth and the sea,
because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury,
because he knows that his time is short."
When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the desert, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent's reach. Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring--those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

See http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bibl...anguage=english