Episode 26 Discussion: "The Show Must Go On"

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Originally posted by yortareme I missed the first 10 minutes of the episode. (I fell asleep at 10:50 and woke up at 2:10) can someone please tell my why Big-O's orange head top was gone. Thank you.

Fau buzz sawed it off!

THe thing about Big O is that every episode connects. Once I have time, I plan on sitting down and just watching every single episode and keeping track of the small things. Hopefully I'll then understand the show.

Bring back my ghost, missing cat, and daemonseed didn`t connect with the plot, but they were decent episodes.

The greatest villain dosen`t hold anything essential to the plot either, but it`s so hi-frickin-larious that it deserves to be seen with the main show. That has to be one of the funniest episodes of any show I have ever seen.

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Originally posted by Raptor I guess in a way, Big O is structured somewhat like Trigun. The first half of the series introduces the charachters and ahs them go on radom adventures that slowly develop their personalities, but add little to the plot. However, the secodn ahlf is when it gets busy. All the episodes save for one(sound famiiar?) are directly related to the main plot and uncovering the big picture with Legato, Knives,and the Gung Ho Guns. I guess you could draw a few paralells between Alex vs. Roger and Vash vs. Knives too. If trigun had just continued having filler episodes all the way through, it would not be one of my personal favorite anime as it is today.

Good observation, Raptor!

Trigun is also one of my favorite animes (the big three, I call 'em: Big O, Trigun, Cowboy Bebop).

Trigun also has that nice happy-happy open-ended ending. The characters have triumphed over their burdens/challenges and are still going to keep on living. A great way to end a show!

I've got some thoughts on why this was a GOOD ending. I'll put that on a separate thread.

Sure, I'll take more if they want to give it, but I'm happy with these 26 episodes and complete story.

Actually, I thought that not all the episodes of BIG O were crutial at first either...but then I watched the first season over (a few times lol) and saw that every episode has to do with memories and somewhere in them, there's a connecting factor. (sometimes to concepts that have not been fully explained like the common theme of scientists and expirements with genetics as seen in DAEMONSEED, ELECTRIC CITY, MISSING CAT and sound) as seen in A LEGACY OF AMADEUS. BRING BACK MY GHOST is very subtle, involving aspects of the memories they haven't explained. Deals with Shwartzwald's Megaduece-Master theory from ENEMY IS ANOTHER BIG! Similar theme can be seen in the episode with the Sea Titan. Sea Titan is "looking for its master." Weird. Definitely not everything resolved.

THE GREATEST VILLIAN (an episode I deplored) was actually, sadly, quite important. Beck made copies of the Roger communication watches. And in STRIPES Alan Gabriel has one of those watches which he uses to freeze-up Big O while he's fighting the Union megaduece. I've actually made a list of all the unaswered questions/mysteries from Season 1 becuase I was so anxious for season 2 to cover 1's tracks. Season 2 was so weird that I didn't keep track of the new mysteries unfortunately. But there's A LOT of interesting points in all the episodes of Season 1 (some resolved by Season 2, others not yet solved as far as I can tell. Overall, alot were though, which suprised me. Good writing. Still, some loose threads that make room for more episodes definitely.)

My general question is, is this the end of BIG O??? In a thread I have going in this forum, I point out evidence from news breifs and from the series itself that seem to suggest there may be more (2 more seasons). The evidence is there, but maybe it's just wishful thinking in the end. Ep. 26 Was a decent ending, but I didn't get the sense that all was revolved. Rather, that this is only the middle. Who can say. A fun, thoughtful time at any rate. Classic anime BIG O is.

'later

This shows a great example of all the foreshadowing created by the author to stimulate the viewer's mind/imagination. Blow by blow:
(BOLD are still in play for questioning I think in one way or another. Probably missed some, or didn't look at some in the right way however.)

~THE BIG O SEASON 1 QUESTIONS~

1. ROGER THE NEGOTIATOR

- Roger's past involvement with the military police?
- How long has he been out of the service and how did he acquire so much wealth?
- What is Dr Waynewright's connection with Paradigm/Megadeus'?
- Is Roger a religious man? (He prays)
- Why is the megadeus called BIG O?

2. DOROTHY, DOROTHY

-N/A (don't have any specifics points to note)

3. ELECTRIC CITY

- How does the city get its power if the monster creating the energy has been destroyed?
- Why create genetic creatures? (sure they power the dome and later Big Fau, but there's too many experiment records with that old man to just be for that...and Rosewater doesn't even have Fau at this point.)

4. UNDERGROUND TERROR

- Why did Seebach burn all his research/files?
- What did Seebach learn about 40 years ago?
- Is Seebach Swartzwald?
- Why was Roger seeing memories/ghost-like images/his mother? ...(SERIOUSLY UNANSWERED!)
- What's Dorothy's connection to the Megadeus'/robots? (Some kind of universal technology?)
- What was the City Expo ruins about? (Why was their a Megadeus shell there?)

5. BRING BACK MY GHOST

- Are the machines sentient? (Do they react to humans/emotions/thoughts?)
- Hudson River (is this New York?)
- What's the significance of the floating doll in the river?
- No true sun anymore?

6. A LEGACY OF AMADEUS

- Why were experiments in sound being done for the city?
- Was Instro ever a real boy?
- Are the Androids simply there to control the Megadeus'?

7. A VOICE FROM THE PAST (misnamed I believe. Can't look up or thread will vanish.)

- What are the machines with memory/ies?
- Why is Angel so concerned with memories?
- Does Angel really like working for Rosewater, or is their another reason she's doing it?
- Rosewater didn't want the Sea Titan destroyed right away, why?
- Sea Titan looking for its ‘master'?
- Angel's scars? (Wing markings) Is she really human?
- Why is there a city underwater? (What happened 40 years ago to create this mess)
- Who are the mysterious Frogmen working for?

8. MISSING CAT

- What's Dorothy's true connection to the cat?
- What's with the genetic experiments/freaks?

9. BECK COMES BACK

- How deeply are Roger's and Beck's fates intertwined? (showed up in last episode. FINAL STAGE. Not fully explained, but I'll give them some points here)

10. WINTER NIGHT PHANTOM

- Is Dauston's memory a memory of a premonition?
- What's with the balloon symbol?
- Why is Gordon Rosewater out of power? (When did it happen?)
- Why would it be ‘beneficial' for people to know about foreigners? (Rosewater's quote)
- What other world lies beyond the domes?

11. DAEMONSEED

- Scientist and his memory of trees? (Significance?)
- Rosewater's statement about ‘True meaning of Christmas' (hidden meaning?)
- Book of Revelations connection?
- People going to church/singing praise even though they can't remember why. (Meaning?)
- Why is Alex Rosewater truly worried about the city's safety?

12. ENEMY IS ANOTHER BIG!

- How does Angel know the name Shwartzwald?
- Severance pay? (Why so high?)
- JFK point? (Airport?) Reference to New York again? Why would Shwartzwald meet there?
- What is Shwartzwald trying to accomplish? (Why does he want everything destroyed/people to have their memories of 40 years ago back?)
- Why does Big Duo reach for Paradigm/Rosewater (and/or Dorothy) as it 'dies'?
- Where's Angel and Dorothy? (lockers/phone)

13. R-D
- Cast in the name of God, Ye not guilty? (What does this mean?)
- Why are people getting killed all of a sudden (those with memories of 40 years ago)
- Serial #s (Who has them? Does Roger have one? Is that how young people have old memories?)
- What's the electronic coffin about? (Did evil Dorothy awaken from it?)
- Is there more than one Dorothy?
- What does Dorothy find by the couch?
- Roger's subway/fire/doomsday nightmare (a meaningful premonition or memory?)
- Metropolis book (why isn't it finished? Is it waiting for Roger's actions?)
- History of the World book?
- Why empty library?
- How does Roger know of the institute where memories were implanted?
- What does Gordon Rosewater know?
- What is the significance of the tomatoes/tomato juice? (Are people synthetic?)
- "You can do it. You SHOULD be able to do it."?
- ‘Giant Robots running a muck 40 years ago'- LIES?
- Angel and R-D in red, why?)
- Angel: You're not using your megadeus properly (???)
- BIG O acted on its own?
- Rosewater states ‘things are already well under way' (doesn't matter than Roger got the book.)?
- Is Norman in on it? (How can he repair Big O?)
- How can Roger pilot Big O?
- Megadeus': Sacred Chariots of mankind? Something about ‘choices'?
- Why does Angel hold a baloon?
- Who are the mysterious Megadeus' (3) coming from the sea?
- What does Angel mean when she says: "It's too soon. If the power is released now it will be too much.")

Well, that's all I got. 'later

Anywho, this is what it old myself last night so i would get some sleep....Or at least this is what i got from the whole show...probably off...

Angel Rosewater writes this story that consist of characters that her father knew, and that she had grown up seeing, Alex, roger, dorothy, etc.

She probably idolized them and while writing her story got so caught up in it that she kinda went into this fantasy...

And became a character in her own story. This of course distrupts the whole story because now the story is missing its final pages because she hasn't "woken up" from this dream world. (Maybe she is happier in this dream world) And because of missing pages the characters take on a life of thier own. One that she begins to be unhappy with. This forces her ot wake up and and finally conclude the story. But by waking up she sees what she couldn't have to begin with, the Real roger smith because he has his beloved Dorothy. (Cuz think about it, if she wrote the story then she wrote the script she had Alan say those words cuz she knew them to be true) . So no matter how many copies she made of him
and no matter how many times she tried, he was the one thing she could never get. By "negotiating" with her, Roger gives her the chance to start over, to have a fresh start with a new story. Her own.

Yeah, I am that tired....

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Originally posted by s-girl And regarding whether anything was resolved in the triangle... I don't really think so. Roger's last words were to Angel... and I think actually came across better in the Japanese version since they were much more strongly emoted. (Not to hold anything against Steve Blum or the dub, who is always excellent, but I think the words were a lot more poetic in the Japanese version. )

Quick note from someone impressed by the attention all of you on this board pay to this, but I just wanted to make the comment that although I'd concede that nothing's explicitly settled with regard to the Roger-Dorothy-Angel bit, I've always thought the beauty of the series to be in the understated dynamic between Roger and Dorothy. Even if those words of Roger had been more strongly emoted in the English version, I still think that the "feel" of what I've seen of the series (all of season 1, about a third of season 2) makes Roger's speech more the exhortations of a concerned "friend" (heavens, that words seems ill-suited here, but I can't think of anything better in current usage) than anything else.

The writers never make things explicit with regards to Roger and Dororthy, but I've always thought that that's because they don't need to. I wish I could give the equivalent of a scholarly footnote, but I suppose I can't, and must simply admit that this is more opinion than demonstrable fact. To give one example, at least in the episodes I've seen, whenever Angel and Roger have interactions alone, the writers constantly cut to scenes of Dorothy to remind everyone of her presence, but we <don't> get scenes cutting to Angel in, for example, the comic opera of gift-giving in Daemonseed. And it's Dorothy who "introduces" Roger in the booth--I think she (and perhaps the ever-mysterious Norman) seem to understand his "role" the most.

Anyhow, I thought the series as a whole could actually end here, with Roger and Dorothy still bound together in a manner that may not be conventionally romantic, but is still "closer" than the connection between him and Angel.

I actually think the character-interactions really save this show in the end. I personally see the plot as really much too intricate--and although I think there's a certain dignity to Roger Smith's stubborn refusal to live his life and, more importantly, fill his obligations in a world where "reality" seems so mysterious, was it really necessary to bring that out with this whole stage business? There are plenty of examples through history of people struggling with worlds thrown out-of-kilter, without apocalyptic events or technology-run-amuk providing some catastrophe or an alternate reality. If the interaction between Roger and Dorothy is in my view wonderfully understated (and also between both and Norman), I also think the plot is just too much.

But with that said, I thought the second season ended well enough, with enough "space" for a third season, but also enough "closure" for me. However, I could see how someone more into the plot would want more answers--I thought the ending worked best on the level of suggesting where the three main characters stood, with enough slippage to allow for different opinions.

It might have been nice to have caught a glimpse of Norman, though.

WWSH

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Originally posted by Big-O Man... I got to say I loved that ending actually... I don't care what you people say that was just one Kick A$$ ending for a Kick A$$ anime!!!

Here, here! It was very good.

Although a different direction from the first season, but I've worked past that, as it's been a complaint for the entire second season.

Walking Together Down The Yellow Brick Road

by

Chiaki J. Konaka
Story Editor, Writer in chief


READ IT. ITS THE MISSING LINK.

http://www.konaka.com/alice6/index2.html

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Originally posted by Lia's calling Walking Together Down The Yellow Brick Road by Chiaki J. Konaka Story Editor, Writer in chief READ IT. ITS THE MISSING LINK. http://www.konaka.com/alice6/index2.html

I have the radio play...is that the translation at last?

EDIT: I enjoyed that SO much. Thank you for the link!

It doesn't work for me, anyone care to post a transcript?

The whole author/director/reset (and implication that resets had happened before) reminded me very much of the Well World series of books by SF author Jack Chalker. If you haven't read them, a brief synopsis:

The original universe came about spontaneously (Big Bang style) but the resulting universe was only about 1 galaxy in size. Life evolved, developed intelligence, gained mastery of the fundamental laws of nature. This race, later called 'Markovians' (after the human who first discovered their ruins) understood the laws of nature so well that they re-engineered their planets to have a layer of mentally-controlled computer poured underneath the crust. Anything they wanted, the computer materialized for them. They were superintelligent, immortal...and left feeling empty and stagnant.

The Markovians became aware that somewhere, somehow, they had made a 'wrong turn' in their development and reached a dead end. A godlike dead-end, yes, but an empty and sterile one. They could not even conceive of how they could be different, and that very blindness was part of their problem.

To find a way around this, they concieved of a colossal project. Unlike their own worlds with a few inches of mentally-responsive computer crust, they would design and build a computer so massive it WOULD BE an entire world, from the core outward, with a thin crust of rock & water on the outer surface. This computer (dubbed the Well of Souls) would do the same thing their planetary computers did, but on a much more massive scale...using it, they would materialize an entire universe around/including their original one, but much larger...the well-nigh infinite universe we see around us today. Using that computer, they artificially aged that universe by altering the flow of time in it (because the computer stabilized the equations for this universe, they could alter it as they wished simply by altering the equations in the appropriate manner) so that life would arise on a wide variety of worlds. Then they sectioned off the surface of the Well World into 1560 different regions, and gave each to an artist to use to create a biosphere, animals, plants, and the model for the intelligent species. The Markovians then gave up their immortality to be processed through the Well of Souls computer and became the intelligent races in the various experimental areas. After a bit of time to get used to their new (mortal) bodies, the Well of Souls computer selected a planet that had the closest match to their environment out in the new universe and sent them to it, to live, die, prosper or perish as it might happen. The area of experiment was then wiped clean and given to another artist to try HIS vision. The Markovians hoped that by becoming new and different races that had to begin the climb to 'godhood' once more, at least one of the new races would find whatever it was they themselves had missed that led to their stagnation.

At last, after eons, there were no Markovians left...they had all been processed through the Well into new creatures and been sent to found new civilizations and cultures out in the new universe. All but one, that is.

The Markovians were master engineers and controlled the very laws of space, time, and physics. Their machines were self-repairing, self-sustaining, and perfect. But the Markovians were wise enough to know that NO machine can last forever without breaking down, and they had purposefully NOT made the giant Well of Souls computer self-aware. This also meant there would come decisions that called for a sentient with free will to make. To that end, one Markovian stayed behind as a kind of guardian, repair man, and general overseer. It was a form of voluntary exile forever from his race, done for the good of the experiment.

Eons more passed, and the Markovian became bored and lonely...so lonely and so bored that he SHOULD have gone mad, but he could not go mad because the Well of Souls computer would not permit it (that would compromise his function) any more than it would permit him to die...so, in desperation, he processed himself through the Well anyway, becoming a member of that race that called itself Human. He would walk among them, feel fellowship with them, and end his loneliness. He did not become mortal as all the other Markovians had (the Well would not permit that) nor did he have his knowledge removed (as had all the others; that would have compromised his function). The problem is, though, that a few tens of thousands of years is too much experience for a human mind to contain, and the last Markovian forgot who he really was; he knew that he did not age, but he could not remember his past or his purpose. He drifted through human society through the millennia...until came an emergancy and the Well called him home.

He didn't immediately remember who and what he was, but being back on the Well World did bring his memory back (slowly). The great difficulty was that because of the safeguards that had been set up, the last Markovian had to follow rules that bound all other ordinary mortals...he would not have his full Markovian powers back until he managed to reach and enter the Well of Souls computer, and to do that he had to trek across the Well World to an access point, crossing through many of the 1560 'leftover' environments and cultures that still occupied its surface. The journey was dangerous, and just because he couldn't die didn't mean that he couldn't be injured or feel pain...

Eventually he reached the Well of Souls computer, assumed his Markovian aspect again, and fixed the breakdown. The breakdown required a reset of the master computer (the Well)...and that means the universe got turned off. Everything that wasn't part of the original Markovian galaxy-sized universe vanished as if it had never been. Once the repair was completed and the computer brought back on line, the Markovian ran the programs again, recreating the universe more-or-less as it had been before...though because of quantum uncertainty, there were some slight differences...

One major difference from the Markovian's point of view was that this time he had found another person, a human, with whom he could share the burden of eternity. He raised her to godhood (recreated her as a Markovian) and taught her how to work the Well. He instructed the Well to treat her as a guardian as well. Then they both processed themselves through the Well, and once again entered the new universe and immortal-but-human, to walk unseen and unrecognized among them...

Well. If you've stuck with me this long, I think you can see some very heavy parallels between the Markovian and Angel, including possibly passing (or sharing) the torch if the speculations about Dorothy are correct.

Thoughts?

I hate to repeat myself, but I have been looking and haven't seen anyone answer the question I asked on the 10th page of this thread. I am not sure if no one was able to answer or if people just missed it, so I will repeat (and hopefully I didn't miss a response to my question).

When Angel and Gordon get out of the elevator on the 666th floor, and Angel sprouts wings and flies into the darkness, what is in the darkness? It almost looks to me like it could be a japanese word or phrase, and if so I would REALLY like to know what it says. From my very low quality VCR recording I can't tell if it looks like japanese, some strange light, or the grid pattern. Any answers would be greatly appreciated.

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Originally posted by Jr.Angel, or whoever, resets everything. So nothing that happened before was significant.

Not exactly. The Angel and Dorothy we see at the very end are not exactly like the versions we first encountered in season 1. Dorothy there is already wearing her blood-red/black outfit which she acquired after coming to live with Roger.

And Angel and Dorothy are now already acquainted, which too should not happen with a literal reset.

The differences between this last scene and the first have been stated now several times in several threads, meaning that we don't have a literal reset.

Those minor differences means something has changed this time around.

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Originally posted by w_ready99 I hate to repeat myself, but I have been looking and haven't seen anyone answer the question I asked on the 10th page of this thread. I am not sure if no one was able to answer or if people just missed it, so I will repeat (and hopefully I didn't miss a response to my question)..

I did reply... perhaps this thread is getting so huge that everything is getting lost.

I stated that I believe that Angel was flying towards the control room... the lights we see are all the screens and assorted lights.

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Originally posted by Spike THe thing about Big O is that every episode connects. Once I have time, I plan on sitting down and just watching every single episode and keeping track of the small things. Hopefully I'll then understand the show.

Well the good news is that Adult Swim will be running all 26 episodes on its M-Thursday block starting sometime this month.

And I did rewatch all the episodes two or three weeks ago starting from episode 1 :-). It's been enormously helpful.

BTW - the best line in ep 26 for me was the line Dorothy had regarding Beck.

Buffoon... heh!

s-girl: I definitely appreciate the reply (and especially 2 of them ) and your response definitely makes sense. But is this just what you thought or what you believe after looking at it with a good quality recording? I hate to doubt, but I barely noticed it the first time through and only really picked up on it the second time through.

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Originally posted by s-girl I stated that I believe that Angel was flying towards the control room... the lights we see are all the screens and assorted lights.

I can't remember who said this originally, but it sort of looks like Big-Venus's glowing teeth.

Ok... maybe everybody's thinking this through too much... maybe it's just a message that the creators of the show want to separate themselves from the show before they become absorbed in their own creations... as for how it works out in the show, maybe it is a simulation that creates events on its own, created a whole ecosystem sort of thing which was documented on film as, yes, the ultimate reality show. Except for the main characters, who decided to stop being players in the show and remember that there is a real world out there. The manufactured Roger Smiths were in fact, merchandise, making fun of all the uber-marketable giant robot animes out there.

In short, the producers were saying that it is all an act anyway, so don't concern yourself so much in something that isn't even real, and being so worried about memories when you have your own.

But I could be completely wrong.