Episode 26 Discussion: "The Show Must Go On"

quote:

Originally posted by Jr. Doesn't anyone else think that was a bad ending?

*raises hand*

All in favor of Bandai re-making everything after Episode 13 in a theatrical feature film,say "aye".

I'll betcha a dollar that the phone in Angel's director's booth is linked up directly to Big Ear's earpiece. She was giving him prompts on what to tell Big Ear to move the story a long

Plain and simple, the worst ending ever. An ending is supposed to give you some sort of conclusion, or at least point you to some conclusion. This just made no sense and never will. The only way it could is if we were given an alternate ending. Something similar to evangelion, i'm thinking. btw, does anyone know how the big o manga ends?

zach726, you obviously haven`t seen that many anime. I cna name 2 right off the bat that have worse endings:

Digimon 02 and Blue gender

especially with digimon 02, you will see why open ended endings are a good thing.


Besides, Speculation and theories are half the fun of fandom, aren`t they?

WE HAVE NOT COME TO TERMS

quote:

Originally posted by Blue Crow All in favor of Bandai re-making everything after Episode 13 in a theatrical feature film,say "aye".

Aye.

Conclusions are supossed to tie up the loose ends and explain the symbolism/foreshadowing. They are not supossed to come like a baseball bat to the face and make you feel stupid for not understanding what happened. I feel that the whole season 2 was rushed and wasn't what the creators originally intended.

quote:

Originally posted by hypokinetic WE HAVE NOT COME TO TERMS

I was going to start a thread by this name trying to see how many were disgusted by the ending.

Well if you hate it so much Jr. why do you still want to talk about it.


If there`s one thing I hate it`s people who suddenly decide they hate something on a forum and then stick around to continually re-iterate how much they hate it.


I would like a movie or short OVA to resolve thigns, but I don`t thinkt aht there is enough to make another full season.

quote:

Originally posted by Raptor zach726, you obviously haven`t seen that many anime. I cna name 2 right off the bat that have worse endings: Digimon 02 and Blue gender especially with digimon 02, you will see why open ended endings are a good thing. Besides, Speculation and theories are half the fun of fandom, aren`t they?

Don't forget Gundam 0083.It was a great series indeed,but if they would have added 2 minutes onto the ending after Kou sees Nina again,it would have been a lot better.

And I think that a movie would be a great idea.And it's entirely possible.It's not like alternate endings and remakes haven't been done before.

Because I like the show, and it deserved a better treatment than some phantom, god-out-of-the-box ending that turned everything into the Twilight Zone. I hardly think this qualifies as hanging around talking about how much I hate the show or how bad it is....probably because I haven't done that? My beef is with Act 26.


Why did you post the exact same message twice, Raptor? Once in this thread and once in another?

1) I don't think the world was "completely" reset. Roger asked Angel to not wipe away memories. At the very end as Roger drives down the street, this is why there's a building damaged and leaning on its side. It's a reminder (memory) of something that happened.

2) Angel the Memory and Angel the Director have to be taken as separate entities. I see Angel the Director as being the god of Paradigm City (at least the Paradigm City she observed from the control room). Therefore, the Angel=Venus=Lucifer=Satan ties can be drawn to the Memory, but not to the Director. Satan, in Judeo-Christian belief, can only go as far as God allows. Therefore, Satan first had to ask God's permission before wreaking havoc on Job's life. And God let Satan go so far before he completely restored Job. So, Angel the Memory was going to completely wipe away everything through the power of Big Venus until Roger negotiated with Angel the Director. Angel the Director chose to let memories remain (see #1)--to what extent, we don't know.

2a.) I just thought of something else concerning this whole Angel Memory vs. Director. In Act 25, Angel the Memory tells Vera that she no longer belongs in Heaven. Satan was cast out of Heaven. Angel also tells Gordon that she's unreliable: "I'm a memory? How can a woman as unreliable as me who knows nothing about herself be a memory?" Gordon responds: "Memories by nature are unreliable. They'll degenerate and become fraudulent in people's minds. People subconciously create these stories..." This seems to imply that Angel the Memory became corrupted, which parallels the corruption of Satan. So, Angel the Director "cast out" Angel the Memory.

3) I don't know that we can say that Angel is the "new" director. I think she was directing all along. Gordon knew of her existence, but he didn't know who she was. I don't think we can call Gordon the "old" director because he told Roger he hired Roger to negotiate with the "director of this world". Gordon knew he had been given a role by the director and wondered if he, or anyone else, could ever break free free from that role.

4) And the characters DID break free from their roles, as Penny Century has said.

quote:

Originally posted by StevieV019 Also, when they showed Angel crying while she was watching the monitors in the "green" directors room, was that inside Big Venus?? Where was that?

In Act 25, as the Behemoth rises from the ground in the studio, there's a quick shot of a control room in the background. I've always assumed that that's where Angel the Director has been observing all along. In Roger's "revelation" underwater, he sees Angel the Director down on the set overlooking Chibi Angel and Vera rehearse. So, I don't think it's that big a of a stretch to say that she's in the studio.

I also assume that the structure Angel flew to underground was Big Venus.

I posted it in both ebcause I felt it applied to both threads.


and You could`ve fooled me, because nearly all of your recent posts are negative in nature not just towards 26, but the whole season 2 in general.

Also you don`t seem to be in favor of more episodes or movies to explain/conclude the series, which shows, to me at least, taht youa re dissapointed with the series in general because you feel it is unsaveavble.

And yeah, the 0083 ending did suck, but not as much as digimon 02. Now THAT is the worst ending ever, and anyone who dissagrees has not seen it.

And BTW, for those who said the second season wasn`t what the original creators intended, is said on konaka`s site that Big O was originally supposed to be 26 episodes, but was shortened to 13 because of the network. So, if anything ti was exactly what was intended from the beginning.

[quote]Originally posted by "Yeah, but..."
2) Angel the Memory and Angel the Director have to be taken as separate entities. I see Angel the Director as being the god of Paradigm City (at least the Paradigm City she observed from the control room). Therefore, the Angel=Venus=Lucifer=Satan ties can be drawn to the Memory, but not to the Director. Satan, in Judeo-Christian belief, can only go as far as God allows. Therefore, Satan first had to ask God's permission before wreaking havoc on Job's life. And God let Satan go so far before he completely restored Job. So, Angel the Memory was going to completely wipe away everything through the power of Big Venus until Roger negotiated with Angel the Director. Angel the Director chose to let memories remain (see #1)--to what extent, we don't know.

2a.) I just thought of something else concerning this whole Angel Memory vs. Director. In Act 25, Angel the Memory tells Vera that she no longer belongs in Heaven. Satan was cast out of Heaven. Angel also tells Gordon that she's unreliable: "I'm a memory? How can a woman as unreliable as me who knows nothing about herself be a memory?" Gordon responds: "Memories by nature are unreliable. They'll degenerate and become fraudulent in people's minds. People subconciously create these stories..." This seems to imply that Angel the Memory became corrupted, which parallels the corruption of Satan. So, Angel the Director "cast out" Angel the Memory.



That is exactly how I interpreted the Angel the Director/Angel the Memory issue. I'm not really sure whether Paradigm was all in Angel's head or if it was a show that she was producing from the booth for some other motivation or what, but her dual roles as both the City's God and Lucifer seems to fit the last five minutes or so of the episode.

Whether or not the reset was a perfect reset to exactly the way things were in the first episode or not, I'm not sure. However, as has been pointed out already, since they took the trouble of adding Angel & Dorothy as well as removing the reflection of Roger's watch, it seems like it is definitely not the same Paradigm City that we saw at the beginning.

As for the We have Come To Terms at the end of the episode, I agree with the theory that it was supposed to indicate that Roger succeeded in his negotiation with Angel the Director but I also took it to mean that there won't be a season 3. If that is the case, I didn't mind the way they chose to end it (despite the fact that I'd love a third season). I think they could have given us a few more concrete answers, but the room for interpretation is nice.


Also, since I'm new to the boards, just wanted to say hello to everyone here. This is definitely the best Big O site on the net.

quote:

Originally posted by Raptor And BTW, for those who said the second season wasn`t what the original creators intended, is said on konaka`s site that Big O was originally supposed to be 26 episodes, but was shortened to 13 because of the network. So, if anything ti was exactly what was intended from the beginning.

But if you research further,you'll also notice that when they approached the task of writing Season 1,they hired individual writers to put their own spin on each episode.In other words,they just took everything as it came.Sure,they had to plan out things like Schwarzwald's return and so on.

But I don't think this was the case with Season 2.It's too well thought-out to be taken one episode at a time.

P.S. Quit picking on Jr.

He's here because he loves Big O and wants to see it ended properly.He as well as many others are displeased with Season 2.So don't insult anyone further,and there won't be a flame war.

First of all, I`m sorry if what I posted earlier sounded like flaming. Looking back, it did sound a little rude.


Many others? If you look in this thread, you`ll see that you`re severely in the minority, with maybe about 2 or 3 other people who dislike it as much as you two. Everyone else is either anticipating a continuation of some kind and is mildly satisfied with the ending(my opinion), or liked it the way it was.

Also, I really didn`t like the episodic nature of the 1st season that much. One of the reasons I like anime so much is that like each show is one big story and not a bunch of little ones put together. If it weren`t for the big mystery slowly being unraveled in some episodes, I probably wouldn`t ahve liked it.

On that note, I like how the early season 2 episodes, which were also episodic like season 1, created more continuity within the series by tying seemingly stand alone events to the main story.

I guess in a way, Big O is structured somewhat like Trigun.

The first half of the series introduces the charachters and ahs them go on radom adventures that slowly develop their personalities, but add little to the plot.

However, the secodn ahlf is when it gets busy. All the episodes save for one(sound famiiar?) are directly related to the main plot and uncovering the big picture with Legato, Knives,and the Gung Ho Guns.

I guess you could draw a few paralells between Alex vs. Roger and Vash vs. Knives too.

If trigun had just continued having filler episodes all the way through, it would not be one of my personal favorite anime as it is today.

EDIT: Huh? The spellcheck changed the meaning of some of my sentances?!

I missed the first 10 minutes of the episode. (I fell asleep at 10:50 and woke up at 2:10) can someone please tell my why Big-O's orange head top was gone. Thank you.

quote:

Originally posted by Raptor I guess in a way, Big O is structured somewhat like Trigun. The first half of the series introduces the charachters and ahs them go on radom adventures that slowly develop their personalities, but add little to the plot. However, the secodn ahlf is when it gets busy. All the episodes save for one(sound famiiar?) are directly related to the main plot and uncovering the big picture with Legato, Knives,and the Gung Ho Guns. I guess you could draw a few paralells between Alex vs. Roger and Vash vs. Knives too. If trigun had just continued having filler episodes all the way through, it would not be one of my personal favorite anime as it is today.

Trigun was packed to the brim with filler episodes.But there were enough cool episodes to allow it onto my favorite anime list.

But Trigun failed in many areas that the first season of Big O succeeded.
(And if you like the Trigun anime,read the manga,it's much better. )

Trigun's filler was obviously boring and repetitive and was just there to fill the plot holes.Although,some of the filler episodes were animated nicely.However,episodes like "Fifth Moon" have to settle for some of the crappiest animation seen in anime to date.And that episode was the first appearance of the angel arms for f***s sake!

However,Big O's so-called "filler" is actually,what I think,the true nature of the show.The show was made to be a set of mini movies that tell the story of Roger Smith.Although some are linked and add to a bigger picture that we don't see until later.Instead of just pointing obviously like Trigun did.

What I'm trying to say is,anime creators need to get their priorities straight.Even if you ARE going to add sh**ty filler,at least make sure you save the good animation for episodes that actually matter.

Well, I think it had a good/interseting ending!

Angel flying away.... damn that was, the best scene in Big O history!

"Mouth to Mouth" The best LINE in Big O history. One of em anyway..

That was the best epsiode I have ever seen... and I don't even get it...

Well I kind of do, but, whatever...

This calls for.... SEASON 3! *insert cheap music here*

Sorry... too much Halloween candy.

While I agreee the filler epidoes were somewhat entertaining, in the ennd they did low the plot down.

Up until and including ep. 19, season 2 episodes were exactly like season 1 episodes. They spent 3/4 of the series beating around the bush, and they needed the remaining episodes, poosibly more to resolve the main plot.

Man... I got to say I loved that ending actually... I don't care what you people say that was just one Kick A$$ ending for a Kick A$$ anime!!!