The TRUTH about Angel! *SPOILERS TO THE MAX!*

Well, I just had my s*** ruined. There are less than 24 hours before the premiere of the final episode as of this post, and my perspective of Big-Venus just had a complete turn around. Here I am, hoping to guide others through the meaning of all of this when the time comes, only to have my world shattered.

One hour ago, I had assumed that Big-Venus was the megadeus equivalent of God himself, as it has the power to recreate Paradigm City. However, I was glancing through my copy of the official Big-O companion book, and I stopped at the script of Act 26. I noticed for the first time that it has footnotes scattered here or there, so I skimmed through excitedly to see if I could extract any meaning out of the Japanese text. In page 105, in the third line of the right-hand side of the gray box, I read the following:

"Venus / Lucifer"

Holy. F***ing. S***.

But so much makes sense now. B666, for example, refers to the mark of the beast. Angel truly is a "fallen angel." She's LUCIFER! "A bird whose wings have been plucked will shed all its feathers and turn into the beast it was before it evolved into a bird." In Roger's flashback in Act 26, Big-Venus has wings and is destroying the city. It's wings are plucked, its mechanical body is shed away, and it is cast down to Paradigm City in human form as Angel. Gordon tells Angel that she is literally a "memory," as evident from the marks on her back. This could be a way of saying that Angel is an incarnation of somebody's former self entirely.

I must say, it's pleasing to know that I was on the right track earlier. Can anybody add to this discovery?

Oh, and I believe I have put the age-old Dorothy vs. Angel debate to rest forever. Angel is Satan. Roger deserves better. Now I'm trying to figure out whether or not Paradigm City is Hell. Damn I need some aspirin.

Just to add, in that studio set where Gordon and Angel are, they head to an elevator that leads to underground level 666.

Yes, what you said about Angel IS true. Good job.

Once again you are thanked for being so observant.

Whoa ...

Okay, time for some interesting re-speculations for Reciprocal Paradigm.

No wonder Angel is freaked out by the whole destiny thing.

BTW - the 666 is the mark of the Beast, not satan and not the anti-christ in Revelations. So ANgel as Satan is not entirely correct.

Also, there is the clear idea being articulated by Roger throughout this last story arc that people are not preprogrammed by whatever memories exist. Also, Gordon also expressed his hope that people can change roles.

Until we see the translation of Roger's last speech, I'm not drawing conclusions on exactly what Angel is... besides you still have to deal with

spoiler (highlight to read):

Angel as "God"-- author of "Metropolis" and recognize the role of 666 in the book of revelations. 666 is simply the mark of the beast, but the point of Revelations is that God is victorious... the beasts are just a means to an end before the final truth is unveiled. Therefore, it's just as valid now to state that Angel is not the devil, but God of paradigm.

Yeah, I know. That's why I'm still confused. I thought about the whole role-changing bit, but I'm still at a loss for what I've read in the companion book.

*blinks*

That's amazing...I never looked at it like that before...*grabs her companion guide to Big O and starts rummaging through like mad*

.....

*remembers she can't read or speak Japanese* Aw nuts.

In any event, I agree with s-girl in that I don't really think Angel = Satan. I know that 666 is the mark of the beast, but I'm not that familiar with Christian mythos, so could someone maybe explain what the beast is? I think its pretty evident that Big Venus/Angel is supposed to represent the beast, but what is that exactly?

Man, I can't stop looking at those screencaps you posted links to, Sixfortyfive. That's an awesome revelation. I can't wait to see if they answer our questions tonight!

quote:

Originally posted by Sixfortyfive "A bird whose wings have been plucked

Looks like it lost some weight too

No, really. I have seen that scene sooooo many times BUT never put 2 and 2 together to see it THIS way.

Although, I also mentioned something about people turning into Megadeus's a while back. I think the most believable theory I mentioned WAS Angel related, how she, after the elevator ride, turned into Big Venus.

Good going sixfortyfive! Great obs!

I really wish I had a scanner. It's right here in black and white, plain as day: Venus/Lucifer. The whole thing is driving me batty.

WHOA

i guess i did translate the quote in my sig. correctly then 0.o

When i first viewed Megadeus's clip of Big O's Final Stage and Big Venus, i heard dorothy say something that sounded like- "Big Venus, soo-bas-sour-no-wa-tie-tat-o-e-wa"
Then, when i heard the clip of Vera in Act 23 talking to Roger, the screen zooms in on her and she says THE EXACT SAME THING . I knew by the time of Act 23 i would know what she said, and when i did, Vera said "a bird whose wings have been plucked will shed all its feathers, and turn into the beast it once was before it evolved into a bird". That seemed a bit long for "soo-bas-sour-no-wa-tie-tat-o-e-wa" X_x;;;, so, i shortened it and got, "a bird whose wings have been plucked"

"soo-bas-sour-no-wa-tie-tat-o-e-wa"="a bird whose wings have been plucked"

i feel so smart

after i read that, it made even more since if dorothy says that....

quote:

Originally posted by Sixfortyfive I really wish I had a scanner. It's right here in black and white, plain as day: Venus/Lucifer. The whole thing is driving me batty.

Digital Camera's work too. Any friends with scanners/copiers? OR, anyone else who has the "Book" with a scanner?

quote:

Originally posted by R.Dorothy Waynewright *blinks* That's amazing...I never looked at it like that before...*grabs her companion guide to Big O and starts rummaging through like mad* ..... *remembers she can't read or speak Japanese* Aw nuts. In any event, I agree with s-girl in that I don't really think Angel = Satan. I know that 666 is the mark of the beast, but I'm not that familiar with Christian mythos, so could someone maybe explain what the beast is? I think its pretty evident that Big Venus/Angel is supposed to represent the beast, but what is that exactly? Man, I can't stop looking at those screencaps you posted links to, Sixfortyfive. That's an awesome revelation. I can't wait to see if they answer our questions tonight!

Well, I've my trusty Bible with me (no evan, I'm not going to throw it at you...yet ), and I'm reading through the Book of Revelation for the umpteenth time. So, I can give you an analysis on the beasts. It is important to note that, because the Book of Revelation is Apocalyptic Literature, the beasts are symbols. Both beasts represent the Roman Empire and its emperors (for example, if you convert the Hebrew letters for Nero's name to Hebrew numbers, you get 666. Therefore, the number 666 stands for Nero, who is remembered for persecuting many of the early Christians. In addition, the first beast was said to be worshiped by the people--during that era, the Roman Emperors were expected to be worshiped as gods). However, since you can equate the Roman Empire with sin (as was the trend in Revelation--Babylon, too, was a symbol for Rome, and there were some very nasty descriptions--Babylon as the mother of whores, for example), saying that the beast is a symbol for Lucifer (though, again, it'd be better to equate it with sin, which stems from Lucifer, so it's a bit of a stretch) isn't that bad of an interpretation.

Actually, upon further reading, both beasts came after the Dragon (Lucifer) was cast out of Heaven and unto the Earth. The first beast rose from the sea, the second beast rose from the earth (both called by Lucifer). Therefore, the best interpretation is that both beasts stem from Lucifer, even if they aren't him exactly.

You know, the fact that the beasts stand for emperors who felt they were gods works here...if Angel is the next "god" of Paradigm (writer of Metropolis), then it makes sense in a way...she is the self-made god of Paradigm, just like the Roman emperors (who were sinners and begotton from Lucifer) were self-made gods of Rome. Therefore, you have a further parallel.

Any more questions concerning Revelation? Oh, and for those who have a Bible, the two beasts appear in Revelation 12:18 to Revelation 13:1-18.

To crystalize: the beasts (which stem from Lucifer) are symbols of the Roman Empire (or, more specifically, the Roman Emperors). In addition, the Roman Emperors were self-made gods, just as Angel appears to be near the end. Therefore, equating Angel and Venus with the beasts is a very valid interpretation (in my opinion), though equating Angel is Lucifer himself is a bit of a stretch, at least in the context of Revelation. You can do it, but the interpretation isn't as powerful as equating her with the beasts/Roman Emperors.

Not that I'm not trying to challenge the Big O companion guide and the interpretations of the creators...

Thanks for the info Fallen Phoenix, that answers a lot of questions! The way you offer the interpretation of equating Angel to the selfmade gods of the Roman Empire makes a lot of sense. Thanks again!

Thanks to R.Dorothy Wayneright for these:

Original text
Partial translation

Wow, I cant believe we over looked all that. The beast, fallen angel, me wishing she was dead. It all fits into place now...Told you Dorothy was the best.

Very nice! Before I read anything, I interpreted the ending as meaning the whole thing was a big TV show, for which Angel was the producer- and she put a memory of herself in the show in case things get out of hand, hence Big Venus.

But your interpretation seems dead on. Good work.

-Master P

Wow. You were right. That's really really weird.

First - the interpretation of Revelations is not interpreted by all Christians to refer to the past Roman empire, but the tale of the end of the world before a new heaven and earth are formed and man will be reunited with God literally.

Big Venus = Beast/Bird/whatever... the point is that it's rewriting things and the verdict as to how things are rewritten are up to the creator /writer of the book Metropolis, which we learn is Angel Rosewater.

Roger was trying to negotiate how things would be rewritten... and from the ending it appears that he was *successful*. We see Angel as "human" (although whether this is another show within a show, who knows), and we see the timeline start from where our show began.

As far as the antichrist - clearly it's Alex Rosewater - the man who elevated himself to a godlike position.

The Lucifer analogy doesn't make sense if we are to interpret the ending from a Christian perspective because the book of Revelations ends with God victorious over Lucifer, Lucifer destroyed and man and God reconciled in heaven.

So in other words, still disagree that 'angel rosewater' is Lucifer/Satan/the devil :-) from the Christian interpretation.

However, I still think that we have to watch out for overinterpreting it from this perspective. The directors have combined a number of various concepts here..

An ammendment to my Angel=Roman Empire (according to Revelation) theory...

Hmmm...now that I'm thinking, perhaps Angel can, actually, be Lucifer, therefore making Big Venus the beast. At Angel's beckoning, Big Venus rose from the ground (or sea...doesn't matter, there were two beasts).

However, this would mean that although Angel is controlling Big Venus, she didn't become Big Venus...

Eh, I'll have to think a lot more on this, but I think the fact that the Roman Emperors were self-appointed gods is important and can be applied to Angel/Big Venus (especially with Roger's monologue...he was basically denying that Angel, as Director, had any control over them or their memory).

Hey-

If Paradigm City is "Hell," then are the people living in it damned souls from Earth? Hmmmm.....

-Master P