I am what I am - Poor Dorothy......

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Then why do identical twins, who come from one fertilized egg (which is still not understood as far as I know), have completely different personalities? They should be identical in personalities also, since they are two people from the exact same physical material, yet they aren't.

Environment. The twins do not undergo the exact same life experiences and therefore do not grow into the exact same type of person.

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her emotion is not genuine since it's just a bunch of 1s and 0s telling her what to do. Of course, if there's no distinction between that and humans, then I'm wrong, but if there is, then I'm right.

You pretty much nailed it right on the head there. Whereas I believe that human actions boil down to a simple physical "cause and effect" situation, you believe there to be more to it than that.

This kind of thing is exactly why I am so addicted to the Big O, though. There is so much more to it than a dude with a giant robot. It makes you think, and it makes you wonder.

I am with Sixfortyfive as far as emotions go, that they are chemical reactions that originate in the brain in reponse to sensory feedback. However, I personally don't see it as belittling us or our consciousness in any way because it's amazing that simple chemical switches can give me thoughts and then permit me to move my fingers to type words so I can share my thoughts with you on this board.

This is the realm of philosophy, to be sure, but I guess what I am saying is that if it happens to us, I see no reason it can't happen to Dorothy, especially given that she is likely every bit as complex in her construction as we.

EDIT: there is nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree, it is interesting to me to discuss the different points of view and it doesn't affect what I think about a person because everyone has a perfect right to their own opinions.

One time I engaged in a late-night 3-hour discussion about fate with 2 friends of mine. I was for it; they were against. I don't exactly remember how we came to a conclusion, but it involved the three of us simultaneously proving and disproving fate at the same time in what I can only describe as Orwellian double-think. After 5 minutes of complete silence, Corey looked at me and asked "....Did we just reach Enlightenment?"

Probably one of the most memorable conversations I ever had, although I can't even begin to remember how we reached that conclusion.

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Originally posted by Jr. No. This has never been proven, and is a statement of philosophy, not science. It could just as easily be said your emotions cause the chemical reactions.

I haven't had to slap down this silly line of pseudo-reasoning in... oh... months. Oh well, may as well get to it. *cracks knuckles*

#1 - If you claim emotions are not physical in nature, tell us exactly what you claim they are. Quit beating around the bush and lay your cards on the table.

#2 - Demonstrate that non-physical existence is a valid concept to begin with, preferably by providing evidence for the existence of any non-physical thing. (Here's a hint: You can't.)

#3 - Prove that your non-physical theory explains the phenomenon of emotions more accurately than the standard physical model.

The standard physical model has plenty of evidence in it's favor. Two of the best pieces are:

#1 - It is medically documented that severe head trauma can produce noticable changes in human personality. It's happened to a friend of mine.

#2 - Disruption of brain chemistry via drugs can alter human emotional states. Where are your non-physical "real" emotions then?

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Originally posted by Executor I haven't had to slap down this silly line of pseudo-reasoning in... oh... months. Oh well, may as well get to it. *cracks knuckles*

It would be easy to defeat your "arguments", and also a waste of time. Nobody would change their mind about anything. And as I said before, I'm not arguing things that have nothing to do with the show. This is off topic, so I won't say anymore about it. Thanks for starting the first flame, though.

Sixfortyfive, Zola: Y'all were great sports about it, thanks for keeping cool! We must do this again sometime.

You make a good case, Exec. Come on, Jr., it's all in good fun.

Also, I think this entire discussion has everything to do with the show, as it addresses the question of what exactly makes a person human.

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Originally posted by Sixfortyfive You make a good case, Exec. Come on, Jr., it's all in good fun. Also, I think this entire discussion has everything to do with the show, as it addresses the question of what exactly makes a person human.

You're reading my mind again, Sixfortyfive.

*Zola looks around worriedly, wondering if there is a lost evil twin her mother didn't mention.*

Jr, I can understand your points, I just don't agree with them, and I also very much enjoyed the discussion.

Exec, this wasn't about right or wrong, it was about possibilities, so relax.

Edit: I mixed up the names! Sorry!

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Originally posted by Jr. It would be easy to defeat your "arguments", and also a waste of time.

So you have time to post your unsupported opinion over and over again, but no time to put forth a rational argument? Please. Does anyone here actually believe that Jr. could "easily defeat" me, but just doesn't CARE to? Pathetic.

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Originally posted by Executor So you have time to post your unsupported opinion over and over again, but no time to put forth a rational argument?

Yeah, just like you did, huh? Oh, wait, no. You didn't.

If I take your bait, the mods will come in, warn us both, and close the thread. Then I'll have to post here with a large warned post above my avatar.
The tone of your posts indicate you are more intrested in insulting me than engaging in an open debate. You must be angry about something, or something I said offended you personally.

If you have to continue this, give me your email address. Otherwise, let it go. You pretty much have nothing to lose. What do you say?

My email address is:

WindupAtheist@hotmail.net

Bring it.

Oh, and just to clear ONE SMALL POINT UP, Jr., what I said isn't a philosophical point, its a psychological one. As in, this is what is taught in pretty much every psychology class you'll take. Its taught in the one I'm taking.

And I do believe Exec backed up his statements. You didn't. Just to be fair, I'd like to see your proof, too!

Like Sixfortyfive said, its all in good fun! And it IS relevant to the show, like Zola said, because of how the conversation was spawned. I think you're worrying a little too much about the action the mods might take.

Wow ,my poor little thread is turning into a big philosophical discussion. YAY! Here's my two cents. There are humans in this world who show no traits of being humans but monsters. I'm talking about people who kill or use others mercilessly. Now Dorothy isn't a human in the physical sense but certaintly in spirit she is. After all remember Big O isn't real so anything can happen in a fantasy world!

The testosterone is getting a bit thick in here.

Where be the girly squealing and whatnot?

Poor Dorothy. "Doomed" to be an android in love with a (dense) human.

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Originally posted by neverwhere The testosterone is getting a bit thick in here. Where be the girly squealing and whatnot? Poor Dorothy. "Doomed" to be an android in love with a (dense) human.

Okay let me pick out a girly color......mmmm pink! I only been whining about this on like this whole forum! Roger should admitt his love for Dorothy's sake!

hehehe....*turns into a 12 year old screaming fangirl*

OMIGOD!!! I TOTALLY LOVE DOROTHY!!! IT WAS SO SAD WHAT HAPPENED TO HER!!! ROGER SHOULD CONFESS!!! OMIGOD!!!

LoL, sorry! But that was fun.

Hee. I love throwing important and thought-provoking questions out the window to bring in utter nonsense.

Wheeeee! Roger and Dorothy 4-evah! And, yes, it's possible for a human to love a machine! I love my computer very deeply. Maybe not in a sexual way, but if there were a way... Erm. I'm fine now! Roger is a jerk!

ROGER!! WHATSMATTAWITUFACE You love dorothy!!!!! YEEHAH!!! Let's have us a shotgun weddin' our little Dotti has got herself a beau!*fires into air* Points gun at Roger's back......now Roger.... say ya'll love her.

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Originally posted by GummiBear289 ROGER!! WHATSMATTAWITUFACE You love dorothy!!!!! YEEHAH!!! Let's have us a shotgun weddin' our little Dotti has got herself a beau!*fires into air* Points gun at Roger's back......now Roger.... say ya'll love her.

Ugh you westerners, always so demonstrative. Don't you realize that Roger as the product of Japanese anime, will always prefer the silent moment of Enlightenment? A touch, a stillness, a deep glance into the eyes is all a true anime hero needs to show his pure emotion!

(I will hit you with my Buddha stick next! )

Hey, he lets her share a seat on his hourglass during all the closing credits! That MUST be true love!

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Originally posted by R Trusedale Hey, he lets her share a seat on his hourglass during all the closing credits! That MUST be true love!

Yeah! If it were anything less than true love, he'd be sprawled out on top of it using Dorothy as a footrest. You know he would.

Roger: "But Doooorothy! You're an *android*! It's what you do!"

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Originally posted by neverwhere quote: Originally posted by R Trusedale Hey, he lets her share a seat on his hourglass during all the closing credits! That MUST be true love! Yeah! If it were anything less than true love, he'd be sprawled out on top of it using Dorothy as a footrest. You know he would. Roger: "But Doooorothy! You're an *android*! It's what you do!"

**giggles**

I just got some images now

And about the hourglass thing, yes he shares it with her. Remember in the first episode's ending, he's alone in the hourglass, it isn't until Dorothy joins in the second episode that he shares it with her! And the romantic music! COME ON! I mean if it meant nothing, might as well put Norman there instead of Dorothy with Roger right?