Angel. ***HUGE SPOILERS***

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Originally posted by Rurouni Storm That wasn't Angel in the red cape in R.D. that was an evil Dorothy lookalike. I don't really think the people turn into the megadeuces, but perhaps the megadeuces turn into the people (mentally)? For sure, they seem to adapt to their pilots and even adopt part of their personality. Heck, they might have memories of previous pilots or at least their own memories of the pilots. I'm sure Big O lets Roger pilot him either because he confuses Roger for the original Major Smith or simply because Roger reminds him of the Major. Maybe it's more a friendship than symbiotic relationship as you suggest. That's why Big O let Roger rescue Dorothy, it also believes Dorothy to be a friend. This also explains why it lets Norman repair it. Big Duo, on the other hand, depends on whether Schwartwald was crazy before or after he started piloting it. I think Big Duo may have shown Schwartwald what drove him made. Perhap Duo also wishes to show the truth to the people of Paradigm? This also explains why it rejects Gabriel. Duo has made a partnership with Schwartzwald and may want to continue his goal. Alan stands in the way of that goal. Perhaps Gordon Rosewater was the original pilot of Big Fau and that's why it resembles Alan?

I've speculated on this before in other threads. I think the memory transfer at Big O "boot up" time works both ways. The Bigs seem to accept a clone of their former pilot more easily, and the memory trick works better. In Schwartzwald's case he shoehorned himself into Archetype and later Duo without being a clone match for the previous pilots. The download of memories from a physically different brain probably wasn't too good for him. Thats probably how his name got changed, remember he was Seebeck before he started his research.

The both way theory does explain old bandages, but what about Roger? Has he actually been changed through his contact with Big O? Perhaps his initial contact with Big O is the reason why he quit the military police.

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Originally posted by Rurouni Storm That wasn't Angel in the red cape in R.D. that was an evil Dorothy lookalike. ?

There is an Angel in cape in R.D. or the episode where Roger finds the book Metropolis. Immediately after she appears, and after she's gone he finds that book.

It could be that this is not the Angel in our reality... and it still doesn't explain the army version of Angel either.

ugh. head confused.

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Originally posted by s-girl quote: Originally posted by Rurouni Storm That wasn't Angel in the red cape in R.D. that was an evil Dorothy lookalike. ? There is an Angel in cape in R.D. or the episode where Roger finds the book Metropolis. Immediately after she appears, and after she's gone he finds that book. It could be that this is not the Angel in our reality... and it still doesn't explain the army version of Angel either. ugh. head confused.

Um... Isn't the red cape a dead giveaway by now?

RED = UNION

I found something interesting in an Angel screenshot from an episode, well its not THAT BIG of a thing but just quite curious, it deals with spoilers so here I go.

spoiler (highlight to read):

Remember how Big Venus is the negative colors of Big O, and how people are saying that Angel is the Domina of Big Venus? Well look at this

For those of you who don't remember. This is a pic from "Leviathan" and is in no way a spoiler pic, just the comments made about it.

spoiler (highlight to read):

Angel is wearing an outfit similiar to Roger's in a way (the buttons, the suit) I mean just put it in negative and it will come out kind of like Roger's outfit. Its kind of curous because Big Venus is the negative of Big O while Angel is somehow the opposite of Roger. Then again she does wear black. But still I think this was just a curious find, maybe a foreshadowing or just something isignificant that a fan found.

Also I must admit I like Angel, I found her interesting when she was a double-wammy secret agent type of Fujiko woman. Now she seems kind of pitiful, and I do wish that Roger's rejection didn't do her in like that. I just hope Angel starts being less sad and more kickass. Then again we're geting to see another side of her character.

wow...good observation, about the suit and the correlation between her and Roger...

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however...I may be mistaken, but wasnt her suit White and Pink in that episode? I dunno...those colors could almost correspond to Big Fau's colors even...Fau has some pink components to it if Im not mistaken....just another perspective that Ive thrown out thats probably wrong... I think Angel is the Dominus of Big Venus...thats my honest opinion...

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Originally posted by Rurouni Storm The both way theory does explain old bandages, but what about Roger? Has he actually been changed through his contact with Big O? Perhaps his initial contact with Big O is the reason why he quit the military police.

Absolutely! Every time Roger Smith syncs up with Big O he becomes more like the original Major Smith. Which I think is the intent of ....
>>ACK<<
(Slumps to the floor just before revealing the secret...)

spoiler (highlight to read):

That's what Gordon meant when he said the tomatoes will be like the real thing! Whooooa!

How did you figure that out?

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Originally posted by GAT-X105 spoiler (highlight to read): That's what Gordon meant when he said the tomatoes will be like the real thing! Whooooa! How did you figure that out?

Ze little gray cells! (Hercule Poirot)
Seriously, to solve a mystery, you make a theory to fit the facts. The more facts your theory fits, the more likely it is to be correct. Best of all is if your theory can predict new facts.

One trick I use is to note anything peculiar I see or hear in the show.

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Originally posted by StevieV019 wow...good observation, about the suit and the correlation between her and Roger... spoiler (highlight to read): however...I may be mistaken, but wasnt her suit White and Pink in that episode? I dunno...those colors could almost correspond to Big Fau's colors even...Fau has some pink components to it if Im not mistaken....just another perspective that Ive thrown out thats probably wrong... I think Angel is the Dominus of Big Venus...thats my honest opinion...

Well white and pink does make sense because

Manga Vol 6 Spoilers

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Angel is the one who pilots Big Fau not Alex in the last Manga Volume of Big O. Its not related to the Anime but the color scheme pink and white does make sense being Fau's. You may say Venus and Fau are in Angel's color scheme clothes

BUt the red cape thing still doesn't explain Angel's weird appearances at all. I'm hoping that once this series is done we can piece together something satisfactory. Just hope it doesn't sound like a weird theory like the matrix.

Regarding Angel's suit... yeah... that is interesting. Very very good observation. I'm buying it...

There also is foreshadowing elsewhere if you'll allow me to read a little bit too much into past episodes.

spoiler (highlight to read):

In the episode where Angel and Roger have their little scene outside the diner, I also took the gesture where Roger took Angel's hand and they stood with hands clasped while facing one another as also symbolic of what is to come in episode 26. In terms of their relationship, then , are they drawn to one another because they are opposites of one another in terms of their roles? It's interesting... while the show so far has a lot of Judeo-Christian references, this strikes me more as Eastern ;-) Yin and Yang. woooo.

Incorporating tonight's episode....

Angel is Big-Venus's "core memory."

Gordon: "You yourself are a memory."

Discuss.

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Originally posted by Sixfortyfive Incorporating tonight's episode.... Angel is Big-Venus's "core memory." Gordon: "You yourself are a memory." Discuss.

Hmm. Maybe...

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but there is also that other problem with Angel=Director. Could Angel be a memory of the real Angel, the director?

And what about Roger. With the Big-Venus/Big-O similarities, it makes me wonder about him. Season 1 he was given the title negotiator. Season 2 he was given the title Domineus. Is there something else we're going to be appending to his title as well now?

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Originally posted by Sixfortyfive Incorporating tonight's episode.... Angel is Big-Venus's "core memory." Gordon: "You yourself are a memory." Discuss.

Yes, and let me expand on this. I briefly mentioned this in the Act 25 thread, and it seems to me that Angel is some kind of representation of the unconscious. She contains within her the memory of the Event, and the memory of the last occurrence of Big Venus. When things have gone too far, when destruction is upon Paradigm, then the core memory (Angel) is triggered, she reunites (or merges) with Big Venus, and everything is reset.

There's some more "collective unconscious" imagery here. We know that the memories of the city are submerged underwater,

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and that Roger uncovers them as Big O sinks into the deep in Act 26

. Also, Roger mentions "Deep underground, a place where we are assaulted by our primal fear--a place that I must confront." That's pretty Jungian. Of course, it's also underground where it's revealed that Angel is a memory, or should I say, *the* memory.

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Originally posted by s-girl Hmm. Maybe... spoiler (highlight to read): but there is also that other problem with Angel=Director. Could Angel be a memory of the real Angel, the director?

spoiler (highlight to read):

I've got my own theory on that. Well, we now know that Roger is supposed to be negotiating with Angel the Director, and that's what happened at the end of Act 26. In a way, he's been negotiating with her the entire series. All of those clandestine meetings and trying to get at her agenda...I in no means think that Paradigm is all a game or a simple TV show, but for some reason, Angel has the world reset. I don't know if *this* Paradigm (there seems to be another outside of it) is a sim (there are grids like the holodeck in Star Trek when Big Venus resets) or a kind of "program" (in the loosest sense of the world), but Memory Angel has been placed there in order to reset everything. Maybe it's because Roger has *failed* in his negotiations with Angel (Memory and/or Director), and that's why things end up the way they do.

Or...perhaps Memory Angel is the one who has failed, and that's why things have to be reset. She did say that the memories had to be protected, and Alex must not get his hands on them. (Was that in reference to Dorothy too?) Anyway, Alex *did* get his hands on the memories.

im new at this but, after viewing some clips i noticed somthing that, got me

spoiler (highlight to read):

when angel and the old man are just entering the elevator, the Floor goes to that grid style, Now if angel was the user of big venus then explan Why the floor went to grid

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Originally posted by s-girl BUt the red cape thing still doesn't explain Angel's weird appearances at all. I'm hoping that once this series is done we can piece together something satisfactory. Just hope it doesn't sound like a weird theory like the matrix. Regarding Angel's suit... yeah... that is interesting. Very very good observation. I'm buying it... There also is foreshadowing elsewhere if you'll allow me to read a little bit too much into past episodes. spoiler (highlight to read): In the episode where Angel and Roger have their little scene outside the diner, I also took the gesture where Roger took Angel's hand and they stood with hands clasped while facing one another as also symbolic of what is to come in episode 26. In terms of their relationship, then , are they drawn to one another because they are opposites of one another in terms of their roles? It's interesting... while the show so far has a lot of Judeo-Christian references, this strikes me more as Eastern ;-) Yin and Yang. woooo.

Hmmm actually Angel is similar to Roger in terms of personality. R.Dorothy is Rogers opisitite in terms of personality. I don't believe that Angel is his oppisite. Maybe they are drawn to eachother because they are the same kind of person, like in episode 20 where she said," two of a kind." Please correct me if I overlooked something.