Angel. ***HUGE SPOILERS***

Don't read this topic if you don't want the rest of the story spoiled. I'm not bothering with tags here because there are nothing BUT spoilers here.

The more I see of season 2 in English, the more I'm beginning to think that Angel is, once was, or will become Big-Venus, however little sense that may make. Vera, her mother, said that she is a reincarnation of an angel, and Roger addresses Big-Venus as "Angel." Big-Venus appears after Angel grows wings and enters that room in Paradigm City's basement. The marks on her back are in the same position and glow in a similar manner to the lights on the back of Big-Venus. The small bio of Big-Venus in the artbook refers to Angel and her memories, as does Gordon Rosewater when he speaks to her in Act 25.

A bird whose wings have been plucked will shed all its feathers and turn into the beast it was before it evolved into a bird.

Big-O - the Behemoth of the Land
Big-Duo - ???
Big-Fau - the Leviathan of the Sea
Big-Venus - the Angel? God? Dunno...

Discuss.

1) WTF?!?!?
2) Use spoiler tags ~_~
3) WHAT THE ****?!?!?!
4) I disagree

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Big Venus ISN'T ANGEL!! I have seen Act26! @.@ FEAR ME MORTALS!! MUAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!! Big Venus has NO pilot. none what so ever...if Big Venus IS an "Angel" of sorts...it isn't the human kind More or less it's the angel of the appocalypse...or something.

If you haven't seen Act26 645 I'll gladly give it to you on MSNM (it's too big for emailing)


-EDIT-
I think you are interpreting it wrong. :-/ Cos you see

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Big O isn't Behemouth....Big Fau isn't Leviathan! Remember Act17?? That dragon WAS Leviathan (or rather...the first half) The BEHEMOUTH is the second part of the leviathan...the Yellow gigantic megadeus in Act25 Behemouth (pic by Megadeus)

...I'll have you know that I've seen 25 & 26 in their entirety, and I can pick up a fair amount of Japanese dialogue.

Roger CLEARLY calls Big Venus "Angel." You don't even have to understand Japanese to hear it.

You're pretty dense about the Leviathan/Behemoth thing, as well as others. Who says it can't be metaphorical? Who says that the Leviathan can't be the archetype/predecessor of Big Fau, or the Behemoth that of Big O? When Vera said that God allowed them to live, I seriously doubt she was referring to two shoddy Megadeuses, one of which never actually fights.

I knew it!

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Angel's scars couldn't have been from a megadeuce since she apparently had them since childhood ( unless you could trust a five year old dominating a megadeus!). Maybe some sort of biological trait that foriegners have.

Well, I'm beginning to believe there may be a symbiotic relationship between Dominus and Megadeus - 'Do they control us, Roger Smith?' asked Schwarzwald. Big O is starting to display independent action of Roger, pretty much by reacting as Roger would.

As for Angel (I think Vera was her adopted mother or guardian, that flashback may have been the first time Vera had seen six-year-old Angel's scars), there is a great possibility that she does have some sort of connection to Big Venus (recall the Goddess of Love's sacred animals were doves), which explains Vera's message about the 'bird'.

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Doesn't Angel actually pilot Venus at some point and her 'wings' were used like an 'information port'? Like hooking up into a computer sort of thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Sixfortyfive ...I'll have you know that I've seen 25 & 26 in their entirety, and I can pick up a fair amount of Japanese dialogue. Roger CLEARLY calls Big Venus "Angel." You don't even have to understand Japanese to hear it. You're pretty dense about the Leviathan/Behemoth thing, as well as others. Who says it can't be metaphorical?

ALRIGHT ALRIGHT 0_0;;;;
Can we get a translator over here...I don't want us feuding over this Let's get to the bottom of this in a humane way shall we 645?
*puts away the hiden rifle*
^^;;;
*burries the hatchet*

quote:

Originally posted by Lady Tesser spoiler (highlight to read): Doesn't Angel actually pilot Venus at some point and her 'wings' were used like an 'information port'? Like hooking up into a computer sort of thing.

(sorry for double posting..but the edit button doesn't seem to be working O.o;; )

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You will soon see that in Act26 those scars are actually for her WINGS ...yes Angel can fly! O_O

It's still mostly theory, but there are too many parallels between the two to simply dismiss it all as coincidence, especially when Angel's memories apparently have a lot to do with Venus. There's a connection, and I don't know how to explain it any other way.

quote:

Originally posted by Lady Tesser Well, I'm beginning to believe there may be a symbiotic relationship between Dominus and Megadeus - 'Do they control us, Roger Smith?' asked Schwarzwald. Big O is starting to display independent action of Roger, pretty much by reacting as Roger would. As for Angel (I think Vera was her adopted mother or guardian, that flashback may have been the first time Vera had seen six-year-old Angel's scars), there is a great possibility that she does have some sort of connection to Big Venus (recall the Goddess of Love's sacred animals were doves), which explains Vera's message about the 'bird'.

Its possible Vera was talking about Big Duo. Duo certainly got its wings plucked in season one. Here it is good as new again and looking meaner than ever.

quote:

spoiler (highlight to read): Doesn't Angel actually pilot Venus at some point and her 'wings' were used like an 'information port'? Like hooking up into a computer sort of thing.

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PLEASE dont tell me angel is a CHOBIT!

quote:

Originally posted by Sixfortyfive ...I'll have you know that I've seen 25 & 26 in their entirety, and I can pick up a fair amount of Japanese dialogue. Roger CLEARLY calls Big Venus "Angel." You don't even have to understand Japanese to hear it. You're pretty dense about the Leviathan/Behemoth thing, as well as others. Who says it can't be metaphorical? Who says that the Leviathan can't be the archetype/predecessor of Big Fau, or the Behemoth that of Big O? When Vera said that God allowed them to live, I seriously doubt she was referring to two shoddy Megadeuses, one of which never actually fights.

Does he say "Enjeru" or "Tenshi"? just curious, I didn't catch that, fast Japanese is bad for me

I will also mention that in Act 25 a "Behemoth" is seen. Big O rises out from the basement area after Vera detonates a bomb of some sort.

After Big O has fully risen with the Behemoth in his hands a part of the dome falls right on him and we hear Vera scream, then there is nothing left but a few pieces.

Combining this with what she told Angel AND what she told Roger last night right before she shot off the cannon from the subway, I'm guessing Vera was doing just as Angel was -

"A bird whose wings have been plucked will shed all its feathers and turn into the beast it was before it evolved into a bird"

Angel = Big Venus
Vera= Behemoth

I agree with sixfortyfive on this one 100%. Now, the $50,000 question: How the HE** does it all tie together!

He says "einjeru" twice: once at the very beginning of the dialogue and once when the camera changes to an overhead angled shot of Venus approaching him.

I am definitely leaning towards this theory...good one, Sixfortyfive.
Roger does yell out Angel's name as Big Venus advances on Paradigm and the duel between Big Fau and Big O...Somehow, besides through the Union, there is a relationship between Vera and Angel, and Im leaning towards the whole mother-daughter angle...

I havent seen the rest of Act 26 nor the entire ending, so its pure speculation for me...but based upon what I read, and some pictures from the Big O official website (I saw the whole electric looking wings being sprawled out from some figure...it was too small to see who...), and my own thoughts...Angel is either the Dominus of Big Venus or the reincarnate of it somehow. This quote pretty much sums it up, plus during Vera's conversation with Roger this past episode, she wanted Roger to tell his little friend (I interpretted she meant Angel) the same quote:

A bird whose wings have been plucked will shed all its feathers and turn into the beast it was before it evolved into a bird


Somehow Leviathan and Behemoth are involved in this, and not necessarily from previous episodes, per se...but from an entirely different perspective. Im not sure how though, Ill have to think some more....

Somehow Angel and Big Venus are connected...thats almost an absolute definite...

Don't get it.

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Angel had those scars since childhood. They are for wings like someone mentioned before.

Perhaps the memory/flashback is indeed an implanted one...Angel, a tomato??

another note...perhaps the scars arent from her linking (i.e. wires sinking into her back) up with a megadeus, i.e. Big Venus....but that they're from when she grows those white "electric/laser" looking wings and flies away

I think that Angel could still quite possibly

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be the pilot of Big Venus. I mean just think of all of the stories that you've heard where some child become power crazed and somewhat possesed by some entity. I think that Angel could be one of these people and that perhaps she looses all control once big venus arrives and her mind converts back to its original state.

Thats just what came to my mind when I heard Vera tell Angel that her scars were because she was a little angel.

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I think Vera already knew this secret!

all spoilers.... spoilers...

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One thing that really gets me is that a lot of attention is also paid to Angel's scars... and how they flare up when Big Fau decides to pierce Alex... also one of our first glances at Big Venus, we see a distinctive trail of lights on the back of Big Venus. I think it's clear... Angel is linked to Big Venus. MOreover, Roger at the very end is addressing Angel... he's saying a lot of really cool things about destiny, and self. Whether she is literally in the cockpit of Venus or not we might not know until we see it... but she is obviously affecting the timeflow/reality flow at that key moment. As for whether she's a tomato... I think episode 25 will address that . Vera does some rather nasty things to ANgel, and Gordon's expression changes as he eyes Angel's scars. Her scars seemed to jog Gordon's memories of something and he seems to be disagreeing with the sentiment that Angel is another tomato.

Id have to agree....

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I believe what sixfortyfive was saying was this: According to this phrase: "A bird whose wings have been plucked will shed all its feathers and turn into the beast it was before it evolved into a bird" Angel turned into Big Venus. What I'm saying goes along with this way of thinking: Vera turned into the Behemoth in Act 25. We see her fall into a deep pit right after she clicks the switch for some type of explosive. After this scene we see Big O rising out of the ground holding a HUGE robot/megadeus construct. After Big O/Behemoth has risen all the way the camera pans up to the ceiling of the dome (The ones with the studio lights on it) and pieces fall off and destroy the Behemoth that Big O was holding. As the Behemoth is destroyed we hear screams which I believe are Vera's (Behemoth=Vera getting destroyed=screams we hear). Somehow Angel transforms into Big Venus. I believe the same thing happens to Vera. She transforms into the Behemoth. Maybe this is how ALL of the Megadeus's are created - They are transformed humans. If left connected long enough (Like Alex with Big Fau) a human would BECOME that Megadeus. Remember my clips showing Alan getting "Absorbed" by Big Duo Inferno ( I like that name)? Perhaps THIS is what happens to Dominus's after they have been connected long enough. Roger probably didn't see the need to "Connect" (Another one of my clips from Act 26) so he told Big O he didn't what to. Alex, on the other hand, WANTED to be powerful and God like, so, he was connected. Just my thoughts, being built upon sixfortyfive's ideas.

Correct me if I'm wrong sixfortyfive

I like the way you think. I was thinking along the same lines, but more on a metaphorical level in regards to Behemoth and Leviathan.