The Big O Cycle

lexnoble 06-07-2007 07:46 AM
spoiler (highlight to read):
I recently saw the ending of The Big O, and its quite obvious that the show is a a cycle how Angel resets the world.

What do you think would happen if this cycle was to be brocken, and Angel never obtained Big Venus.
Inigo Montoya 06-07-2007 08:11 AM
Er... Aren't there three or four threads here ALL READY about the ending to Big O?
War.
lexnoble 06-07-2007 11:40 AM
If so i didnt see them Confused
paul1290 06-07-2007 01:18 PM
The cycle was in fact broken at the end.

Timothy Wayneright's death at the beginning of the series seems to be the event that sets off the chain reaction that leads to the cycle being broken by the end of the series.

In the end, Gordon Rosewater sent Roger to convince Angel not to remove everyone's memories, which effectively ended the cycle of amnesia.
Mike 06-07-2007 01:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by paul1290
The cycle was in fact broken at the end.

Timothy Wayneright's death at the beginning of the series seems to be the event that sets off the chain reaction that leads to the cycle being broken by the end of the series.

In the end, Gordon Rosewater sent Roger to convince Angel not to remove everyone's memories, which effectively ended the cycle of amnesia.

That makes more sense than every other theory ever. Good job putting that together from all the confusing stuff they threw at us in the 2nd season.
Nine Kuze 06-07-2007 02:00 PM
quote:
Originally posted by The Dungeon Master
Er... Aren't there three or four threads here ALL READY about the ending to Big O?
War.

Yes, but the Smith Manison damn sure needs some love and posting so its all good.

quote:
Originally posted by paul1290
Timothy Wayneright's death at the beginning of the series seems to be the event that sets off the chain reaction that leads to the cycle being broken by the end of the series.

Um, I don't see how Wayneright's death is so important. Could you delve a little bit more into this, Paul?

Just from the last couple of episodes, I always thought myself that Paradigm City (the world, simulation, story, whatever) was a reset but they were a lot of people here were saying it wasn't a reset. I don't remember the exact details from threads long ago, but yeah. Some members were saying it wasn't a reset.
Peace.
Jim Starluck 06-07-2007 03:19 PM
It doesn't seem like it was a full-scale, 40-years-ago, everyone-loses-their-memories reset. Felt more like it went back to the start of Season One.

That said, if Angel hadn't reset, I could easily see the struggle for Paradigm escalating, with more and more Megadeuses popping out of the woodwork and wreaking havoc.
Nine Kuze 06-07-2007 03:52 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Jim Starluck
It doesn't seem like it was a full-scale, 40-years-ago, everyone-loses-their-memories reset. Felt more like it went back to the start of Season One.

That said, if Angel hadn't reset, I could easily see the struggle for Paradigm escalating, with more and more Megadeuses popping out of the woodwork and wreaking havoc.

Um, that's true. But there appear to be some changes from "that version" of Season One at the end and then the one which was shown at the beginning of the season. Such as Angel and Dorothy (never mind about the "quality" of the picture and all) standing together and its assumed that they knew each other at the time and even further, Roger as well.

I don't think it was a straight up reset myself, but I don't think everyone got their memories back as well as a result.
Peace.
Hobodoken 06-07-2007 04:04 PM
I think it more entailed selective amnesia, instead of total. Remembering more, but not knowing every little bit.
Ollen70 06-07-2007 04:21 PM
There was a thread kicking around awhile ago about a scene in the companion book that was actually supposed to be the last scene of the series, instead of that weird shot with Dorothy and Angel. If I remember correctly, (and I'm not sure if I do, just to warn you) it was like a replay of the inital negotiation scene from the first episode, and at first it seems like Roger doesn't remember anything. There are very subtle differences, and I guess it's ultimately left up to your interpretation if anything actually changes or not.

It's always been my opinion that the whole point of Paradigm was for people to come to terms, so to speak, with what probably actually happened to the real world outside of the program or whatever it is that they're all in. I think Alex says something like "Paradigm has become the only stage where humanity can continue to preserve its civilization." I figure that the director was stuck in there to help keep things under control, to sort of buffer how much 'truth' people could handle, and, judging from what happened before the last reset, with all of the megadei destroying the city, she decided last time that they couldn't handle any of the truth at all. Away went the memories, except (possibly) for some of Roger's, or Dorothy's, and apparently some of Beck's (go figure.) Nobody "ever had memories prior to 40 years ago," as Gordon puts it, because the director didn't want them to. I think this is probably why Angel loses her "wings" and essentially her own memories, because that wasn't something she was supposed to do - she acted outside of her responsibilities.

Basically, I figure if something happened to Angel, nobody would ever get their memories back, mostly because Angel was the only real source of memory in the city. Yeah, I'm aware there are problems with this theory, but there are problems with pretty much every theory anybody's come up with about this show, and it works for me.
lexnoble 06-07-2007 04:46 PM
I am very intrigued by these posts and they actaully make surprisingly ALOT of sense.

Thanks all.

- Lex
Mike 06-08-2007 01:23 AM
Here's what I thought:

There was a reset. But things were not simply rewound just as they were in the beginning of the series. Why? Angel and Dorothy are standing next to each other on the street. We see Roger driving past the clock tower, yes, but that was in like 5 episodes, so it doesn't necessarily mean anything.

I think that the city was reset, but people kept (at least some of) their memories, and people went back to their day-to-day lives, in Roger's case, negotiating things and driving a cool car.
Big Big Moon 06-09-2007 12:59 PM
An important factor to remember in all this is that objects can apparently be completely restored in the process of "resetting." Remember, both the Griffin and most of Paradigm City was obliterated right before Venus appeared. Memories aren't the only things being manipulated in Paradigm City. It also appears that the superdome was restored, as the lighting didn't seem too out of the ordinary.
Jim Starluck 06-09-2007 01:37 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Big Big Moon
An important factor to remember in all this is that objects can apparently be completely restored in the process of "resetting." Remember, both the Griffin and most of Paradigm City was obliterated right before Venus appeared. Memories aren't the only things being manipulated in Paradigm City. It also appears that the superdome was restored, as the lighting didn't seem too out of the ordinary.

I suspect that the "superdome" or "stage rigging" or whatever is actually invisible/intangible unless the world is approaching a Reset, because we never got any hint of it prior to Act 23.

The fact that Schwarzwald, with his flying Megadeus, didn't discover it back in Season One is a large hint.
paul1290 06-09-2007 03:05 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Nine XXVI
quote:
Originally posted by paul1290
Timothy Wayneright's death at the beginning of the series seems to be the event that sets off the chain reaction that leads to the cycle being broken by the end of the series.

Um, I don't see how Wayneright's death is so important. Could you delve a little bit more into this, Paul?


I thought this theory was a bit far fetched at first, but if you plot out all the major events in the series and simply connect the dots with cause and effect you can trace just about everything back to Wayneright.

The most significant effect of Wayneright's death is that Dorothy ends up staying with Roger. This causes a number of things to happen that wouldn't happen otherwise such as:
-Dorothy waking up the archetype.
-Dorothy serving as a way for Beck to attempt revenge against Roger.
-Roger learning more about his own limitations by being around Dorothy.
-Dorothy waking up Roger from the dream he had in the first episode of the second season.
-Dorothy being there to enable Big-O's final stage.
-And so on and so forth.

Other significant occurances that can be traced back to Timothy are as follows:
-The megadeus known as Glinda.
-Mr. Fitzgerald the android senator.
-Beck's hate for Roger that causes him to work for Rosewater which as a result causes him to tell Dorothy about the Final Stage in order to redeem himself. (long chain of cause and effect! )
-Considering Dorothy's ability to link with Big-O, it's possible that Timothy was involved in Big-O's design and construction.
-And so on and so forth.


There are probably many other events that can be traced back to Timothy Wayneright, but I can't think of any more at the moment. Big Grin
Generalissimo D 06-09-2007 05:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Jim Starluck
The fact that Schwarzwald, with his flying Megadeus, didn't discover it back in Season One is a large hint.


I don't think it ever went that high before.
Big Big Moon 06-09-2007 05:32 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Call Me D. Just D. The D.
quote:
Originally posted by Jim Starluck
The fact that Schwarzwald, with his flying Megadeus, didn't discover it back in Season One is a large hint.


I don't think it ever went that high before.


Regardless, I don't think height was the issue anyway. I was always under the impression that Schwarzwald was singularly focused on the secrets beneath Paradigm City, so much that the "false skies" were the extent of his interest in the skies. After all, that's where he found the Archetype, that's where he spent a good deal of time exploring, and most of his monologues focused on averting one's eyes from the dark.

Perhaps that's why he decided to level Paradigm City with Big Duo: to drive its citizens underground where they would discover "the truth" for themselves.
lexnoble 06-09-2007 05:41 PM
Once i again i thank all for bringing these things to mind, they all make perfect sense. I am greatly impressed by all of this.
Malkhos 06-14-2007 08:22 AM
quote:
Originally posted by paul1290
The cycle was in fact broken at the end.

Timothy Wayneright's death at the beginning of the series seems to be the event that sets off the chain reaction that leads to the cycle being broken by the end of the series.

In the end, Gordon Rosewater sent Roger to convince Angel not to remove everyone's memories, which effectively ended the cycle of amnesia.


Did you dream this? or were you told it by voices? Becuase It is impossible to see how you could have reached this conclusion on the basis of human reason.

Could you please expand on your idea?
Mike 06-14-2007 10:13 AM
It could be that after he found whatever he found underground, Schwartzwald found the stage lights and by that time was already crazy. He did say that the city was just a grand, magnificent stage, after all.