Is Big Venus REALLY Angel's Megadeus?

Nazrael 02-03-2007 09:32 PM
Perhaps Gordon is the dominus. Alex wasn't accepted because he was a tomato.

Maybe the original would work. Though, Gordon's way too over the hill now.
evanASF27 02-03-2007 10:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Malkhos
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Originally posted by The Stoned Guest
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Originally posted by Malkhos
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Originally posted by Nine XXVI
[QUOTE]The feminine of Dominus is Domina.

What?

You spoke of Angel as the Dominuse of Big Venus, I suppsoed trying to make a French feminine of Dominus. There might be something to that, given her 'Francphone' background, but inasmuch as Dominus is Latin, the feminine form is Domina

Suggestion: Work on your English first. Cause I have no clue what you're saying.


Then let me explain. In French and Latin, nouns have gender, and that gender governs what the end of the word will look like. In the case of nouns that describe people by what they do or what they are, the word can ahve either a masculine or a feminine ending, depending on the biological gender of the person involved. So Angel could not be a dominus (master), she would have to be a domina (mistress). Dominuse, while not a real French word, looked to me like an effort to make a feminine form of Dominus using French grammar. But Dominus is Latin, not French.

Oh okay....you were adding in the French there and that's what threw me off Embarrassed Sweatdrop I took 6 years of Latin, so I knew all of that already... just caught me off guard a bit Tongue lol
Nohansen 02-03-2007 10:57 PM
Does Big Fau even have a "true" dominus? Fau was thrown together by Paradigm technicians and jump-started by Beck. It didn't even have a "core memory", whatever that is.

But Big O and Duo have (presumably) been around since before the Event. So it, kind of, makes sense they were waiting for their masters.
evanASF27 02-03-2007 11:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Nohansen
Does Big Fau even have a "true" dominus? Fau was thrown together by Paradigm technicians and jump-started by Beck. It didn't even have a "core memory", whatever that is.

But Big O and Duo have (presumably) been around since before the Event. So it, kind of, makes sense they were waiting for their masters.

A very good question.

We can only assume that it has a true dominus, whether or not it's Alex Rosewater has been up for debate...
But Big Fau is one of the original 3 Bigs introduced at the end of Season1.
SEELE 08 02-03-2007 11:53 PM
I've always assumed Alex was the dominus of Big Fau, it did after obtaining the last part required reconginze hims as "Not Guilty" and than tried to merge with him (Big O tried with Roger later). But I"ve been known to be wrong...most of the time.
DorothyFan1 02-04-2007 01:02 AM
That image of the Big 3 is proof they once worked together as a team. Now...assuming what Roger Smith saw under water in Act 26 actually was an army of Roger Smiths...then theoretically they were also piloting the other two Megadeii! This could also account for why Roger Smith was able to defeat both Duo and Fau...because neither Fau nor Duo have Roger Smith piloting the Bigs! The Roger Smith model could be the only one who could really be the Dominus of all three Megadeii. This would explain Alex Rosewater's curious remark during the duel when he complained about Roger:

"It has absolutely no elegance at all. A clumsy megadeus piloted by a false domineus."

That's one possibility. Something else has struck me...look closely at the photo showing Roger Smith shaking hands with Gordon Rosewater. It actually looks like Alex Rosewater. If you keep that idea in mind...then as someone ingeniously theorized somewhere in this forum...Alex Rosewater could be the clone of Gordon Rosewater using a different name. It would explain Alex looking horrified to learn he's just a tomato.
Nazrael 02-04-2007 01:31 AM
quote:
Originally posted by DorothyFan1

That's one possibility. Something else has struck me...look closely at the photo showing Roger Smith shaking hands with Gordon Rosewater. It actually looks like Alex Rosewater. If you keep that idea in mind...then as someone ingeniously theorized somewhere in this forum...Alex Rosewater could be the clone of Gordon Rosewater using a different name. It would explain Alex looking horrified to learn he's just a tomato.


Um...DUH!
Nohansen 02-05-2007 06:14 AM
quote:
Originally posted by DorothyFan1

This would explain Alex Rosewater's curious remark during the duel when he complained about Roger:

"It has absolutely no elegance at all. A clumsy megadeus piloted by a false domineus."


What does the remark explain? I'm curious.

(Here's to hoping it doesn't explain why R. Dorothy is The Director)
DorothyFan1 02-05-2007 07:39 AM
There are several problems with Alex Rosewater's comment about Roger Smith when he made that remark. Here are some of them:

1. It's odd Alex Rosewater said this because he knew Roger was Domineus for Big O. Who else could possibly pilot Big O? If we go with the theory there is only one true pilot for the Megadeii...then it stands to reason Roger was the true pilot.

2. It also means Alex had in mind someone else being the pilot for Big O. Or...it means Alex was hinting at getting a false Roger Smith...meaning replacing him with a "new" copy to pilot Big O. In either case it means Alex Rosewater believed Roger Smith was easily replacable for Big O. This suggests Alex believed Roger Smith was a tomato.

3. It also hints that Alex Rosewater may have wanted to bribe Roger into piloting Big O for the new World Order. To do this...Roger would have had to leave Dan Dastun and ally himself to Alex. Apparently Alex was disappointed in Roger's decision.

4. The remark also suggests Angel may have been in collusion with Alex Rosewater because she never told Roger about Big Fau being piloted by Alex. It suggests Alex tried to buy Roger's loyalty by offering Angel to him.

These are some of my observations when I heard this comment from Alex Rosewater. There was alot of subtext implied by the comment because it shows clues were left unsaid before Act 26.
The Big Finale 02-05-2007 09:24 AM
quote:
1. It's odd Alex Rosewater said this because he knew Roger was Domineus for Big O. Who else could possibly pilot Big O? If we go with the theory there is only one true pilot for the Megadeii...then it stands to reason Roger was the true pilot.


Yeah, but people don't always operate under pure logic. That was a simple insult, nothing more. It doesn't matter that it's not true, Alex thinks - or at least likes to think - it is.

And who else could possibly pilot Big O? Whoever he allows to pilot him, of course.

quote:
2. It also means Alex had in mind someone else being the pilot for Big O. Or...it means Alex was hinting at getting a false Roger Smith...meaning replacing him with a "new" copy to pilot Big O. In either case it means Alex Rosewater believed Roger Smith was easily replacable for Big O. This suggests Alex believed Roger Smith was a tomato.


Only if you don't pay attention to the context. What Alex meant by the comment was "lol my megadues pwns urs u suk".

quote:
3. It also hints that Alex Rosewater may have wanted to bribe Roger into piloting Big O for the new World Order. To do this...Roger would have had to leave Dan Dastun and ally himself to Alex. Apparently Alex was disappointed in Roger's decision.


This is just out of nowhere, and it's contrary to Alex's belief that he would be able to remake and control the world by himself using Big Fau.

quote:
4. The remark also suggests Angel may have been in collusion with Alex Rosewater because she never told Roger about Big Fau being piloted by Alex. It suggests Alex tried to buy Roger's loyalty by offering Angel to him.


No. That is a completely groundless statement with no other purpose but to trivialize and vilify Angel.
Nohansen 02-05-2007 10:55 AM
quote:
Originally posted by DorothyFan1

This could also account for why Roger Smith was able to defeat both Duo and Fau...because neither Fau nor Duo have Roger Smith piloting the Bigs!


I thought that was kind of interesting, even if DorothyFan1 didn't follow through on it. The Alex quote I think is more relevant to what you said is this one from Act 25:

"You telling me you're the only true Dominus? Sorry, but I'm having a hard time accepting that as the truth, Negotiator!"

Alex may have said it because of some inferiority complex on his part, but also because he has seen Roger is the only one who's successfully piloted a "Big".
Nazrael 02-05-2007 03:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by DorothyFan1
There are several problems with Alex Rosewater's comment about Roger Smith when he made that remark. Here are some of them:

1. It's odd Alex Rosewater said this because he knew Roger was Domineus for Big O. Who else could possibly pilot Big O? If we go with the theory there is only one true pilot for the Megadeii...then it stands to reason Roger was the true pilot.

2. It also means Alex had in mind someone else being the pilot for Big O. Or...it means Alex was hinting at getting a false Roger Smith...meaning replacing him with a "new" copy to pilot Big O. In either case it means Alex Rosewater believed Roger Smith was easily replacable for Big O. This suggests Alex believed Roger Smith was a tomato.

3. It also hints that Alex Rosewater may have wanted to bribe Roger into piloting Big O for the new World Order. To do this...Roger would have had to leave Dan Dastun and ally himself to Alex. Apparently Alex was disappointed in Roger's decision.

4. The remark also suggests Angel may have been in collusion with Alex Rosewater because she never told Roger about Big Fau being piloted by Alex. It suggests Alex tried to buy Roger's loyalty by offering Angel to him.

These are some of my observations when I heard this comment from Alex Rosewater. There was alot of subtext implied by the comment because it shows clues were left unsaid before Act 26.


1: No, Alex simply meant that he believed Roger to be a tomato, and thus a "fake megadeus".

From Episode 20:
"You can't play god forever; you, dominus, with no idea who you are."

From Episode 21:
"What's wrong Negotiator? Does this mean you're just another one of those tomatoes?"

2: The lasts parts right. But all Alex really meant that Big Fau was far superior in combat and power.

3: Umm...no. Roger left the MP of his own free will because Alex has complete control of the MP. He knew Roger wasn't going to "come to the dark side" as it were. Whenever Alex employed Roger asa Negotiator, the real motive was to let Roger do the dirty work and bang up a megadeus/hydra so that Alex could collect it, and add it to his own collection (The Hydra/Big Duo/Architype/etc.)

4: Angel has stated plenty of times about Alex's desire for the power of Megadei.
Capt. Quekolis 02-06-2007 06:11 PM
About your statement in number three. Alex wasnt the one that hired Roger as a negotiator it was Gordon. And apparentyl Gordon doesnt have any desire to have or operate a megadeus. Alex just gathered the remains of Big duo in hopes of renobating it to either try to get Roger out of the way or to get Alen out the way which ever same first. He also needed technological knowledge learned from rebuilding Big Duo to help with the reprogramming of Big Fau.
Nazrael 02-06-2007 08:18 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Ltwhipporwill
About your statement in number three. Alex wasnt the one that hired Roger as a negotiator it was Gordon. And apparentyl Gordon doesnt have any desire to have or operate a megadeus. Alex just gathered the remains of Big duo in hopes of renobating it to either try to get Roger out of the way or to get Alen out the way which ever same first. He also needed technological knowledge learned from rebuilding Big Duo to help with the reprogramming of Big Fau.



Ummm, I' referring to the negotiating jobs that Alex has Roger do. (Giving Schwarzwald his severance checks, sending him to Electric City, etc.)
Ollen70 02-09-2007 04:28 PM
It makes sense to me that Angel could be the "real-world" pilot of Big Fau, given that it seems like she's Roger's subordinate in episode 14, but I think you have to take into account that the "real world" and the world of Paradigm don't really have all that much to do with each-other. Sure, there are similarities, but not everything was the same. Hence, Dorothy being a real person, Beck's role as a bank manager.

My interpretation is that Angel really is "just a memory," a template of the real world Angel, not necessarily tied to her counterpart, just as our Roger probably isn't the first, or the "real" Roger. So, even if Angel does have some old connection to Big Fau, it doesn't mean she can't also be the director. Angel has some old connection to the Trinity, biblically speaking, but she's not in that place anymore. The world is the theatre of the Devil, as the old saying goes, so it also makes sense that she be the Director and still be a Lucifer-like figure. She's working toward her redemption, after all. Maybe the world will continue to reset until she finally gets there.
Nohansen 02-11-2007 07:35 PM
But isn't the "real-world" of Episode 14 Paradigm before the event?Wayneright's young, and his daughter's still alive. There's no mass amnesia or domes. The Archetype has just recently been excavated beneath the city, the megadeuses still don't exist and the clocktower's still in one piece.

What I got from the episode is that after the archetype is found, the military or whoever designed giant robots based on it that, because they don't have a "core memory", went nuts.
The Big Finale 02-11-2007 08:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Nohansen
But isn't the "real-world" of Episode 14 Paradigm before the event?Wayneright's young, and his daughter's still alive. There's no mass amnesia or domes. The Archetype has just recently been excavated beneath the city, the megadeuses still don't exist and the clocktower's still in one piece.


About the Archetype, that's true, but in the newspaper's "The Big-O" comics, there's a scene of Paradigm City-style Roger discovering him also, which doesn't really make sense.

Like most things in Act 14, actually. There's also the problem that the Archetype was found. Not constructed, which means that there had to have been a world prior to that one - otherwise, who built the Archetype?

Personally, I'm of the opinion that the whole thing was mostly just a hallucination on Roger's part.
Capt. Quekolis 02-12-2007 07:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by The Big Finale
quote:
Originally posted by Nohansen
But isn't the "real-world" of Episode 14 Paradigm before the event?Wayneright's young, and his daughter's still alive. There's no mass amnesia or domes. The Archetype has just recently been excavated beneath the city, the megadeuses still don't exist and the clocktower's still in one piece.


About the Archetype, that's true, but in the newspaper's "The Big-O" comics, there's a scene of Paradigm City-style Roger discovering him also, which doesn't really make sense.

Like most things in Act 14, actually. There's also the problem that the Archetype was found. Not constructed, which means that there had to have been a world prior to that one - otherwise, who built the Archetype?

Personally, I'm of the opinion that the whole thing was mostly just a hallucination on Roger's part.



I never did get that why would there be Roger be reading the Big O comics , better yet how or why would they be in there anyway. Is the whole series nothing but a play of the comic strip on a stage, but it is never revealed that they are acting? Personally I dont like this idea I like to think there is more to the story then is shown but is not going to be revealed until Seaon 3 (when ever that is.)
Nohansen 02-12-2007 08:43 PM
I'd like to believe there is some truth to what we see in Episode 14: that the Archetype was really found beneath the city, and Michael Seebach wrote an article on it. That Pre-Event Roger was part of a military unit and piloted a Big.

My take on the Big-Oh comic strip is that it was a manifestation of Roger's self-doubt (Who am I? Why am I here? what's my role? etc, etc.) just like the play where he acts out his meeting with norman while faceless characters watch the performance.
DorothyFan1 02-12-2007 09:23 PM
Well, then someone is going to have to explain away the manga Volume 6...which supposedly shows Big O facing off against Angel piloting Big Fau.