Is Big Venus REALLY Angel's Megadeus?

After viewing Act 26 countless times I have to wonder whether Angel really was Big Venus's Megadeus. I say this because if this were really true...Angel (upon realizing she's the Director) would have done what she could to save Big O from being thrashed by Big Fau.

My impression is Big Venus was simply a holographic program that's activated when Paradigm City reaches it's threshold of pain and destruction wrought by the Megadeii and simply resets the Paradigm City holoprogram. If that's true...then this means R.Dorothy could have stopped it. She clearly should have had this kind of knowledge...which further leads me to suspect Angel is NOT the Director of Paradigm City...regardless of the clues in the ending.

Angel as sure as heck didn't know how to pilot a Megadeus let alone know she was the Director. It doesn't make any sense...Angel was crying in the Control Room...even though she's the Director of the entire scenario? Hard to swallow. I still think this was misdirection...and the real Director of Paradigm City was Dr. Waynewright...who transferred the key codes to R.Dorothy for safekeeping and using in case of emergencies.

Again...the Director was R.Dorothy. She had the codes, she knew the real history of Paradigm and was playing along for the ride with Roger. That's why she was the closest one to Roger Smith and he never suspected she was the one he had been trying to "negotiate" the city's existence.

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Originally posted by DorothyFan1 Again...the Director was R.Dorothy. She had the codes, she knew the real history of Paradigm and was playing along for the ride with Roger. That's why she was the closest one to Roger Smith and he never suspected she was the one he had been trying to "negotiate" the city's existence.

Not to sound rude, but everytime you type that, God smashes a puppy.

Angel was tired, confused, and under stress after being whipped and told what she was. PTSD would sorta slow ones reaction to begin manipulating reality, I would think.

Dorothy only has Megadeus data, nothing else. I honestly think that Wayneright was nothing more than an inventor of Megadeuses, but lacked any real memories pertaining to what was going on. If he were the Director, it would have been made evident earlier in the series I think.

Angel was the mystery. Angel was the outcast. Angel was in the damn control room sobbing her eyes out at what she was about to do.

So yeah, smash.

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Originally posted by DorothyFan1 After viewing Act 26 countless times I have to wonder whether Angel really was Big Venus's Megadeus. I say this because if this were really true...Angel (upon realizing she's the Director) would have done what she could to save Big O from being thrashed by Big Fau... ... It doesn't make any sense...Angel was crying in the Control Room...even though she's the Director of the entire scenario? Hard to swallow. I still think this was misdirection...and the real Director of Paradigm City was Dr. Waynewright...who transferred the key codes to R.Dorothy for safekeeping and using in case of emergencies. Again...the Director was R.Dorothy. She had the codes, she knew the real history of Paradigm and was playing along for the ride with Roger. That's why she was the closest one to Roger Smith and he never suspected she was the one he had been trying to "negotiate" the city's existence.

With regard to the first point, Big Venus does present Big O from being destroyed by Big fau.

In regard to the second, lets try a little substiution: "Jesus was crying on the cross...even though he is God almighty? hard to swallow."

Your Waynewright theory favors an obscure and de-emphasized incident over the shows' climax: very strange dramataurgy if so.

However, you idea does suggest soemthing tome. A Wanewright is a workman who makes wagons (wanes in early modern English). So a Waynewright ought to be someone who make's Waynes. Since Roger Smith is based on Bruce Wayne, may we take this name as a clue that he also Designed Roger the Robot before the event?

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Originally posted by Mr. D quote: Originally posted by DorothyFan1 Again...the Director was R.Dorothy. She had the codes, she knew the real history of Paradigm and was playing along for the ride with Roger. That's why she was the closest one to Roger Smith and he never suspected she was the one he had been trying to "negotiate" the city's existence. Not to sound rude, but everytime you type that, God smashes a puppy.

Dang, D. That sure is a lot of puppies.

Anyway, aside from the riddle, which itself doesn't really explain or detail that much, there's no clear indication that Angel was (or is) the pilot of Big Venus. I like to go with the angle that Roger just assumed that Angel was the dominuse of Big Venus. Dorothy said the name of Big Venus and knew of the riddle, the same one that Vera told Roger to tell Angel as well, and he put two and two together. Just that in this case, it may not have actually be the equal of four.

Also with the current strings of Venus' threads around, I always liked the idea of what Uncle Tomato said; that the unification of Big Venus and Big O at the end (when they walked into each other) represented a new version of Paradigm being created when the old ramicifications of reality (Big O) and illusion (Big Venus) merged into one. Kind of out there, but I like the theory nonetheless.
Peace.

Also with the current strings of Venus' threads around, I always liked the idea of what Uncle Tomato said; that the unification of Big Venus and Big O at the end (when they walked into each other) represented a new version of Paradigm being created when the old ramicifications of reality (Big O) and illusion (Big Venus) merged into one. Kind of out there, but I like the theory nonetheless.
Peace.

__________________

Can I buy some pot from you. lol

But really it does make some sense.

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Originally posted by Hobodoken quote: Originally posted by Nine XXVI Wow, this has to be against the rules. Did you... did you just rip off a portion of my own post and post it again as your own without even attempting to quote it? Bad form, dude. Damn bad form. Peace. I think the line that normally denotes a sig beginning was intended to mean your content ended, and their request for drugs began.

...Oh.

Thanks Hobo. But still, it needs the quotes tages. It has me paranoid.

And yes, you probably can.
Peace.

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Originally posted by Nine XXVI Wow, this has to be against the rules. Did you... did you just rip off a portion of my own post and post it again as your own without even attempting to quote it? Bad form, dude. Damn bad form. Peace.

I think the line that normally denotes a sig beginning was intended to mean your content ended, and their request for drugs began.

Yeah sorry about that i did something wrong, thats a first

Fit it now. Kthanx.
Peace.

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...Anyway, aside from the riddle, which itself doesn't really explain or detail that much, there's no clear indication that Angel was (or is) the pilot of Big Venus. I like to go with the angle that Roger just assumed that Angel was the dominuse of Big Venus. Dorothy said the name of Big Venus and knew of the riddle, the same one that Vera told Roger to tell Angel as well, and he put two and two together. Just that in this case, it may not have actually be the equal of four. Also with the current strings of Venus' threads around, I always liked the idea of what Uncle Tomato said; that the unification of Big Venus and Big O at the end (when they walked into each other) represented a new version of Paradigm being created when the old ramicifications of reality (Big O) and illusion (Big Venus) merged into one. Kind of out there, but I like the theory nonetheless. Peace.

The impression that Angel is the Pilot of Big Venus is so strong,it would be perverse on the part of the author if it was jsut Roger's mispercertion.

The feminine of Dominus is Domina.

Your interpretation of that final merging seems to approach the truth quite closely.

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The feminine of Dominus is Domina.

What?

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Originally posted by Malkhos quote: ...Anyway, aside from the riddle, which itself doesn't really explain or detail that much, there's no clear indication that Angel was (or is) the pilot of Big Venus. I like to go with the angle that Roger just assumed that Angel was the dominuse of Big Venus. Dorothy said the name of Big Venus and knew of the riddle, the same one that Vera told Roger to tell Angel as well, and he put two and two together. Just that in this case, it may not have actually be the equal of four. Also with the current strings of Venus' threads around, I always liked the idea of what Uncle Tomato said; that the unification of Big Venus and Big O at the end (when they walked into each other) represented a new version of Paradigm being created when the old ramicifications of reality (Big O) and illusion (Big Venus) merged into one. Kind of out there, but I like the theory nonetheless. Peace. The impression that Angel is the Pilot of Big Venus is so strong,it would be perverse on the part of the author if it was jsut Roger's mispercertion.

I guess, I just don't like assuming things. In that same notion and light, throughout the entire series, it was implied that Alex Rosewater was Gordon Rosewater's biological son. And then the last ten minutes of Act 24 pretty much threw that out the window. There's a lot of evidence to imply that Angel is the pilot of Big Venus (the riddle, the scars), and I'm not trying to say that's shes not the dominuse but its just that its never really shown and its just assumed by Roger.
Peace.

After Alex and Big Fau merged, Angel's scars began to emit a strong light, and Gordon said the memory wanted to be "remembered", was Alex repeating what Angel had done (ie the scars and being one and the same as one's megadues" or is he repeating his father's action and Angel is simply the product of Gordon (or everyone's) lost memories?

That's an interesting new theory...Gordon's "memories" wanted to be remembered so this makes Angel his "daughter". Unfortunately there's a slight problem here. Gordon makes explicitly clear she's not one of his beloved "tomatoes". This immediately discounts that thesis right away. However...there's another possibility...Angel is really Alex's memories that wanted to be "remembered".

This would explain the lighting up effect on Angel's back just when Big Fau starts merging with Alex. So Angel is really Alex Rosewater's consciousness. Alex is trying to make peace with Roger Smith...but there's a rival...R.Dorothy.

She's the threat that Angel and Alex couldn't abide by. This accounts for Alex's decision to kidnap R.Dorothy and steal her "memories". Alex Rosewater probably suspected Dr. Waynewright put Paradigm City codes into R.Dorothy's matrix. This explains why R.Dorothy is so important to the Paradigm City mystery. Dr. Waynewright had knowledge that Alex desperately needed. While he was trying to overtly steal this information from him in any way possible...Alex was covertly using Angel to "convince" Roger to work with him and not be against him in the "New World Order".

I suspect Alex Rosewater had Schwarzwald killed because he was afraid Michael Seebach would expose Alex's plans for world domination via the Paradigm City program. This is why Schwarzwald tried to impart his wisdom to Roger Smith...because he knew that Roger wouldn't go along with Alex.

The "Domina" construct from Dominus is the first I've heard of a masculine/feminine symbol used with Megadeus. They've all been called "Big". However, the one thing I have been thinking over is the fact that the Big Three are all male...Big Fau, Big O and Big Duo...like the Christian Trinity...Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I've also wondered whether or not Roger and Alex were brothers.

You know, just writing a fanfiction would probably be a good idea.

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Gordon makes explicitly clear she's not one of his beloved "tomatoes". This immediately discounts that thesis right away.

It is not necessarily discounted... The "Tomato Project" is one to reproduce the lost memories, to create carbon copies of certain indivuals from Paradigm's past. Remember, Act 13: "These tomatoes are reproduced synthetically, with only the memories of the sweet flavorful original. If we keep repeating the process, this fruit will eventually become the real thing."

As I said in the other Angel/Venus thread, I have a theory Angel is part of Gordon's experiments (but not the "Tomato Project"). In Act:25, he says "I said that if it's true about this world, if it's one enormous stage, then we're just merely actors playing out our roles on it. We don't need to have any memories". Which makes me think he decided to erase people's memories, because he decided people didn't need them. And where did he put them? Inside Angel.

Act:26... Angel: "I don't know what happened 40 years ago, and I don't really care." Gordon: "Yes, I understand, and because of that, nothing will have existed forty years ago." Angel is the embodiment of "Memory" and if she doesn't remember anything beyond 40 years ago, no else will. Angel: "I just...want to go back." Gordon: "With the memories of what time? At what point in time?" She knows all: past, present and future... she just doesn't know it.

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Originally posted by DorothyFan1 This would explain the lighting up effect on Angel's back just when Big Fau starts merging with Alex. So Angel is really Alex Rosewater's consciousness. Alex is trying to make peace with Roger Smith...but there's a rival...R.Dorothy. She's the threat that Angel and Alex couldn't abide by. This accounts for Alex's decision to kidnap R.Dorothy and steal her "memories". Alex Rosewater probably suspected Dr. Waynewright put Paradigm City codes into R.Dorothy's matrix. This explains why R.Dorothy is so important to the Paradigm City mystery. Dr. Waynewright had knowledge that Alex desperately needed. While he was trying to overtly steal this information from him in any way possible...Alex was covertly using Angel to "convince" Roger to work with him and not be against him in the "New World Order". I suspect Alex Rosewater had Schwarzwald killed because he was afraid Michael Seebach would expose Alex's plans for world domination via the Paradigm City program. This is why Schwarzwald tried to impart his wisdom to Roger Smith...because he knew that Roger wouldn't go along with Alex.

Nine, glove.

Alex...didn't really care for Dorothy, much less Wayneright. The only one who ever really showed interest in them was Beck. Alex's object of interest was the Union.

You really haven't been paying attention if you think Schwarzwald was assassinated.

Heh all the Alex/Dorothy rapefics seem to think you are wrong...this thread made me remember some memories I didn't want.

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Originally posted by Mr. D quote: Originally posted by DorothyFan1 This would explain the lighting up effect on Angel's back just when Big Fau starts merging with Alex. So Angel is really Alex Rosewater's consciousness. Alex is trying to make peace with Roger Smith...but there's a rival...R.Dorothy. She's the threat that Angel and Alex couldn't abide by. This accounts for Alex's decision to kidnap R.Dorothy and steal her "memories". Alex Rosewater probably suspected Dr. Waynewright put Paradigm City codes into R.Dorothy's matrix. This explains why R.Dorothy is so important to the Paradigm City mystery. Dr. Waynewright had knowledge that Alex desperately needed. While he was trying to overtly steal this information from him in any way possible...Alex was covertly using Angel to "convince" Roger to work with him and not be against him in the "New World Order". I suspect Alex Rosewater had Schwarzwald killed because he was afraid Michael Seebach would expose Alex's plans for world domination via the Paradigm City program. This is why Schwarzwald tried to impart his wisdom to Roger Smith...because he knew that Roger wouldn't go along with Alex. Nine, glove. Alex...didn't really care for Dorothy, much less Wayneright. The only one who ever really showed interest in them was Beck. Alex's object of interest was the Union. You really haven't been paying attention if you think Schwarzwald was assassinated.

Yes on all counts, especially the first one.

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Originally posted by The Big Finale You know, just writing a fanfiction would probably be a good idea.

Pretty much, Finale.

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Originally posted by SEELE 08 Heh all the Alex/Dorothy rapefics seem to think you are wrong...this thread made me remember some memories I didn't want.

What the hell?

EDIT:

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I've also wondered whether or not Roger and Alex were brothers.

Good lord, no.
Peace.

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Originally posted by DorothyFan1 The "Domina" construct from Dominus is the first I've heard of a masculine/feminine symbol used with Megadeus. They've all been called "Big". However, the one thing I have been thinking over is the fact that the Big Three are all male...Big Fau, Big O and Big Duo...like the Christian Trinity...Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I've also wondered whether or not Roger and Alex were brothers.

...dude...it's not an "official" gender. It's correct use of the LATIN LANGUAGE (which is a Dead Language...but I digress).

I've took latin for 6 years... Dominus/Domina = "master", usually of "the house" (I.E. The man running the household). Dominus in the case of Big O is the accepted pilot of any Big class megadeus.
"Megadeus" itself is a neuter noun (although technically it can be masculine, but since it's about robots...it's neuter/no-gender). "Mega" from the Greek for "Great" and other such synonyms, and "deus" from the Latin for "god" (not "God", since the Romans believed in multiple gods). We've used both Dominus and Domina in the Megadeus Fighting League for 3 years (this past year...nothing happened). Megadeus doesn't change gender, is basically what I'm getting at.


Dude, although I respect your enthusiasm and creativity, these revelations aren't necessarily... umm, logical. I recommend taking Big Finale's advice and writting a Fan Fiction instead.

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Originally posted by Nine XXVI quote: Originally posted by Mr. D quote: Originally posted by DorothyFan1 This would explain the lighting up effect on Angel's back just when Big Fau starts merging with Alex. So Angel is really Alex Rosewater's consciousness. Alex is trying to make peace with Roger Smith...but there's a rival...R.Dorothy. She's the threat that Angel and Alex couldn't abide by. This accounts for Alex's decision to kidnap R.Dorothy and steal her "memories". Alex Rosewater probably suspected Dr. Waynewright put Paradigm City codes into R.Dorothy's matrix. This explains why R.Dorothy is so important to the Paradigm City mystery. Dr. Waynewright had knowledge that Alex desperately needed. While he was trying to overtly steal this information from him in any way possible...Alex was covertly using Angel to "convince" Roger to work with him and not be against him in the "New World Order". I suspect Alex Rosewater had Schwarzwald killed because he was afraid Michael Seebach would expose Alex's plans for world domination via the Paradigm City program. This is why Schwarzwald tried to impart his wisdom to Roger Smith...because he knew that Roger wouldn't go along with Alex. Nine, glove. Alex...didn't really care for Dorothy, much less Wayneright. The only one who ever really showed interest in them was Beck. Alex's object of interest was the Union. You really haven't been paying attention if you think Schwarzwald was assassinated. Yes on all counts, especially the first one. quote: Originally posted by The Big Finale You know, just writing a fanfiction would probably be a good idea. Pretty much, Finale. quote: Originally posted by SEELE 08 Heh all the Alex/Dorothy rapefics seem to think you are wrong...this thread made me remember some memories I didn't want. What the hell? EDIT: quote: I've also wondered whether or not Roger and Alex were brothers. Good lord, no. Peace.

You. Don't. Want. To. Know.