Roger Smith's Age

Me2sleepy 01-11-2007 11:30 AM
I think if Gordon Rosewater had part in creating or implanting memories in this present time Roger Smith, he would have say it and be proud of it.

By Gordon saying "Of all my cherish tomatoes, Negotiator, you aren't one of my beloved ones...", I believe the present Roger Smith really had nothing to do with Gordon. However, this doesn't mean the current Roger Smith is not a clone/tomato of another being.

If anything I say it's more understanding that the Director herself or the previous Roger Smith created the present day Roger Smith and then this Roger Smith had implantation of certain memories.

And in Episode 13 the english Audio only said that it's "ABOUT" 15 years ago at Gordon implanted memories in children. In the dvd subtitles, it wrote 10 to 20 years ago. I can't translate the Japanese audio so I'm not sure there. Also what makes you believe that there was only one patch of experiments. In short it's to general to state that 15 years is the exact value to go by.

So the memory of where you see the tall child (Alex), can't be exactly determine to be an event exactly 15 years ago.

P.S. I'm curious, but how does Roger Smith get 25, Alex Rosewater get 43, or any of the other characters get their age? Where was it mention in the Anime, like which episode? I don't recall catching it?
Nine Kuze 01-11-2007 11:51 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Me2sleepy
P.S. I'm curious, but how does Roger Smith get 25, Alex Rosewater get 43, or any of the other characters get their age? Where was it mention in the Anime, like which episode? I don't recall catching it?

I think its comes with the DVD box set and all that.

EDIT: Yeah, that's it. I couldn't remember what the source was at first. Thanks, Auntie.
Peace.
Pygmalion 01-12-2007 02:58 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Nine XXVI
quote:
Originally posted by Me2sleepy
P.S. I'm curious, but how does Roger Smith get 25, Alex Rosewater get 43, or any of the other characters get their age? Where was it mention in the Anime, like which episode? I don't recall catching it?

I think its comes with the DVD box set and all that.

It's also mentioned in the character biographies in the art book.

Pygmalioin
SEELE 08 01-12-2007 03:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Pygmalion
quote:
Originally posted by Nine XXVI
quote:
Originally posted by Me2sleepy
P.S. I'm curious, but how does Roger Smith get 25, Alex Rosewater get 43, or any of the other characters get their age? Where was it mention in the Anime, like which episode? I don't recall catching it?

I think its comes with the DVD box set and all that.

It's also mentioned in the character biographies in the art book.

Pygmalioin


I wish I had a translation of my Big O artbook...it's in some crazy moon language i.e. Japanese.
Nazrael 01-12-2007 06:13 PM
Hmm, interesting.

My take on it has always been that one day at the orphanage, Young Roger was probably running around, doing whatever. Till of course, he heard some suspicious noises coming from a certain room. Curious, Roger looks through the keyhole. The barcodes on a screen within the room reflect upon his eyes. He witnesses Gordon performing experiments upon the tomatos, and at some point makes a noise. Gordon hears this and looks toward the door.

The rest is blank, Gordon did something to Roger to give him those memories.

This is all from R.D. that I'm getting it from. The bunch of images we see is of the children looking up at Gordon, a dark sillouette of a young boy (who we are led to believe is Roger, but find out is in fact Alex), A blinking eye with a barcode on it, a red keyhole, and a second of Gordon turning to look somewhere to the side of the children.

The first image is pretty easy, the children are the tomatos. Gordon is implanting memories.

Alex being there is a bit confusing. Since his age is most likely similar to Vera's, he's of the older crop of tomatos. Perhaps Gordon was simply attached to the tomato version of himself?

The eye looks like it has a barcode. But it's not. The image of the keyhole is evidence, since it flashes by one second before. It's a reflection. Not imbedded. Judging from Alex and Vera's barcodes, the image of it should have disappeared after the eye blinks. Since it stays, that's not the case.

The same goes for when Roger is looking at the screen in Big O's cockpit in Stripes. The barcode is moving across his eye. When it's supposed to be just stable (referencing from Vera's and Alex's, even Alex was looking at the screen flashing his code, and it wasn't moving).

So, Gordon had to have done something. Maybe he panicked at being found out, and tried to change Roger's memories. Not forseeing Roger's future career and interactions with Big O of course.

*huff*
SEELE 08 01-12-2007 06:23 PM
That's what bugs me....Roger sees Alex as a child....but Alex should have been an adult at the time Roger was in the orphanege....it should be the reverse. Maybe Alex's age is a lie since he's supposedly 43, maybe because he's a clone of Gordon the accelerated aging came in hand that clones experience, making Alex look *but definetaly not act* older.
Nazrael 01-12-2007 06:35 PM
Maybe that was one of Gordon's memories of implanting the memories of the previous crop? Why they would be in Roger's head I couldn't say though.
SEELE 08 01-12-2007 09:42 PM
I wonder if it's the first Roger viewing the very first batch of tomatoes...Alex was supposedly created three years before the catastrophe and Roger just has those memories of Gordon's exiraments.
Malkhos 01-24-2007 07:25 PM
Did some god come to you in a dream and tell that "it was not supposed to be taken litterally"?

Roger is a robot. While the whole show is an allegory, that is one of the allegorized facts--in the same sense that Dorothy is a robot.
Nine Kuze 01-25-2007 02:25 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Malkhos
Did some god come to you in a dream and tell that "it was not supposed to be taken litterally"?

Roger is a robot. While the whole show is an allegory, that is one of the allegorized facts--in the same sense that Dorothy is a robot.

Wait, what? How is it a fact that Roger Smith is a robot in any means (and please, for the sake of a decent argument, don't use the dream sequence in Act 26)?
Peace.
Nazrael 01-26-2007 04:10 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Malkhos
Did some god come to you in a dream and tell that "it was not supposed to be taken litterally"?

Roger is a robot. While the whole show is an allegory, that is one of the allegorized facts--in the same sense that Dorothy is a robot.


"If I'm cut, I bleed."

Roger is not a robot.

The way I see that final vision, is that it's a slideshow of three possibile origins for Paradigm. A: Paradigm and the megadei are the leftovers from a colossal war that raged across Earth, and incidentally caused a global mindwipe. B: Paradigm is merely the delusions of a New York bum who happens to imagine himself as Roger Smith, a character from a newspaper comic. C: This one is hard to describe, but I think it's through Angel's point of view. Since we do see a dorothy figurine, Young Angel and Vera actors, plus some TV monitors showing past episodes. Those robots could have been Roger Smith action figures for all we know.
SEELE 08 01-26-2007 06:24 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Nazrael
quote:
Originally posted by Malkhos
Did some god come to you in a dream and tell that "it was not supposed to be taken litterally"?

Roger is a robot. While the whole show is an allegory, that is one of the allegorized facts--in the same sense that Dorothy is a robot.


"If I'm cut, I bleed."

Roger is not a robot.

The way I see that final vision, is that it's a slideshow of three possibile origins for Paradigm. A: Paradigm and the megadei are the leftovers from a colossal war that raged across Earth, and incidentally caused a global mindwipe. B: Paradigm is merely the delusions of a New York bum who happens to imagine himself as Roger Smith, a character from a newspaper comic. C: This one is hard to describe, but I think it's through Angel's point of view. Since we do see a dorothy figurine, Young Angel and Vera actors, plus some TV monitors showing past episodes. Those robots could have been Roger Smith action figures for all we know.


I wants one! I want an Big Fau Plushie and an Alex Plushie too! GIVE ME MERCHANDISE!
Capt. Quekolis 01-30-2007 05:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Nine XXVI
quote:
Originally posted by Malkhos
Did some god come to you in a dream and tell that "it was not supposed to be taken litterally"?

Roger is a robot. While the whole show is an allegory, that is one of the allegorized facts--in the same sense that Dorothy is a robot.

Wait, what? How is it a fact that Roger Smith is a robot in any means (and please, for the sake of a decent argument, don't use the dream sequence in Act 26)?
Peace.



Well if hes a robot then how do you explain the blood coming from his arm when he is shot by R-D in episode 13, also why else would he need air in episode 26?
Malkhos 01-31-2007 10:22 PM
Episode 26 is precisely the section I am refering to. It was not a dream, it was a cascade of returning memories. We also know that Big Ear was a robot. Probably everyone in paradign city was a robot.

At the level of its only a cartoon show, the fact that all the characters turn out to be robots without knowing it, would not be that intersting, but I think the show's creators are suggesting that there are commonly unrecognized circumstances in actuall life that can be symbolozid by the robotic, namely that outward life in the way we susually perceive it is a sort of illusion and our true character is something differnt than we think--a truth that can be found in both Buddhism and Western Philosophy (Plato, etc.)

As for other concerns, it is entirely possible that a robot could be given certian biological features--this was a trope of the terminator movies as I recall. As for drowing, no doubt a robot could be programmed to act as though it were drowning if put in a situation where a human being would drown. But agian, the point is the larger symbolic value, not to tidy every trivial matter.
SEELE 08 02-01-2007 11:37 AM
But how could a robot grow? Alex, Dastun, Sybil, Angel, and Roger are all shown as children, robots wouldn't age or grow. They simply don't have the ability to generate matter that would simulate growth. How on eart would Alex and Dastun have been such large men?
Why would robots bleed and use blood? Sybil was shot, a robot wouldnd't have died of blood loss.
Roger did nearly drown, Dorothy saved him and revived him, he was acting like he was drowning, he was drowning. Drowning also accounts for the hallucinations he suffered, when a person's oxygen level drops they suffer hypoxia, which can cause hallucinations and unclear, non-logical thinking.
Also the tomatoes Gordon was growing, they were "recreated with memories of the original" just like the children, the tomatoes would be robots as well by your logic.
Nohansen 02-01-2007 02:02 PM
In what episode is Roger shown as a child? I don't remember that.
Nazrael 02-01-2007 03:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Nohansen
In what episode is Roger shown as a child? I don't remember that.


Technically, we've never seen him as a child. The sillouhette we're supposed to think was him in the tomato memory turned out to really be Alex.
SEELE 08 02-01-2007 05:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Nazrael
quote:
Originally posted by Nohansen
In what episode is Roger shown as a child? I don't remember that.


Technically, we've never seen him as a child. The sillouhette we're supposed to think was him in the tomato memory turned out to really be Alex.


I'm never gonna figure out how Roger could see Alex as a child...if Alex is 43 now...and Roger is 25, though I agree it is Alex in the memory. Oh wellz continuaty errors lol.
Nine Kuze 02-01-2007 05:52 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SEELE 08
quote:
Originally posted by Nazrael
quote:
Originally posted by Nohansen
In what episode is Roger shown as a child? I don't remember that.


Technically, we've never seen him as a child. The sillouhette we're supposed to think was him in the tomato memory turned out to really be Alex.


I'm never gonna figure out how Roger could see Alex as a child...if Alex is 43 now...and Roger is 25, though I agree it is Alex in the memory. Oh wellz continuaty errors lol.

Part of his memories maybe?

Also, there was that one picture in the earlier Acts with Roger as a boy with his foster parents I believe. So yeah... or at least I think there was an Act that had a picture of Roger as a boy with his foster parents.
Peace.
SEELE 08 02-01-2007 08:45 PM
Roger is shown as a tomato in 25 along with normal Roger and Roger the Wanderer.
Also I find it sad that the original Roger would be involved in such horrible expiraments on children. The psych minor in me wants to club him.