The Most Metal Discussion on PCF

Travis Bickle 09-20-2006 08:44 PM
In order to keep the "WHAT ARE YOU LISTENING TO?" thread open and this discussion going, I decided to open this thread. So, I'll continue.

I think Metal in general has pretty much paralleled the same direction that Punk Rock has gone in. Though, I have to admit, there are more metal bands out there that I have found interesting than there are new punk rock bands (I have to admit, I haven't heard of a decent new punk rock band in ages).

Both styles have evolved into different genres, sub genres, and styles. Punk has gone from the whole down-with-the-government, rude boy, clever lyrics, trendsetting thing to just something really, really generic that pretty much anyone could write and/or play.

The catalyst for Metal was Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath and Deep Purple (just like how everyone says there would be no rock and roll if there were no Beatles, Who and Rolling Stones). That evolved in to stuff like Judast Priest and Van Halen, which then split into two very different directions: hair metal, which is/was more radio friendly (possibly the thing I hate the most in this world, more than children), with bands such as Poison and Mötley Crüe, and darker, naster, gritter, less radio friendly metal, like Sepultura, Metallica, Slayer, etc.

Hair metal pretty much evolved into sh**ty mainstream alternative/soft rock in the early 90's, then into boy bands, then into Emo. You know, the stuff that all the girls from ages 12-18 listen to, have posters of on their wall...that kind of stuff. Hair metal is pretty much the 80's version of the 60's pop music.

The other kind of metal (real metal, I like to call it), has evolved into something much more. A lot of it was combined with punk rock, a lot of it was combined with progressive rock, and some with mainstream rock. Grunge is pretty much the sum of "real metal" and indie rock, relying on songwriting instead of power chords and the like (for the majority of time). That turned into post grunge and nu metal, and now we just have a mish mosh of genres that have been around since the 80's: Thrash metal, death metal, black metal, thrashcore, hardcore, etc.

Personally, I don't listen to a lot of metal. I listen to a lot of stoner metal, but that's more in the vein of grunge and hard rock than real metal. I like Metallica (before Load), Pantera, Black Sabbath, and other bands that one would consider the pioneers of metal.

I also like to, every once in a while, roll down my car windows and blast "New Millennium Cyanide Christ" from time to time. It's kind of kick ass. That kind of music is pretty much beat driven, kind of like hip hop, in a sense, but not really. "Puritania" too. I'm not saying I like Dimmu Borgir or anything, but that song is pretty f***ing metal.

I don't really get into black metal or death metal too much. I don't really dig the whole screaming thing, and death metal and black metal bands come a dime a dozen. Though, off of the top of my head, I can say that I can tolerate Opeth (f*** Otep), Meshuggah, In Flames, Type O Negative (very, very good melodic doom metal), Dream Theater (prog metal), some HIM, a bit of Lacuna Coil every now and then, Static-X, and Marilyn Manson (used to be a huge fan).

I tend to listen to a lot of indie and alternative rock. You know, stuff where people take into consideration every single element of songwriting (timing, tempo, theme...pretty much everything used in classical music as well). Metal doesn't seem to do that, though there is the occasional exception.

So...your thoughts?
Big Money 09-20-2006 09:17 PM
The only metal I listen to on any sort of regular basis is Dragonforce and GWAR. Hell, that might not even be considered metal, I don't get much exposure to the genre.

That said, those two bands are really, really awesome >.>. I like other metal well enough when I hear it, but I find death metal and screamish stuff to be mostly irritating.

And... I've got to disagree with you about grunge. Maybe we're listening to different bands, or I've got a bad memory about it (it isn't a genre I enjoy), but as far as I can recall the grunge I've heard is mostly power chords, or has at least very simplified musical elements.

Also, I'm not a fan of flannel. But thats only slightly related.
Travis Bickle 09-20-2006 10:11 PM
Actually, I am kind of off with the grunge part. Who was I kidding. But a great deal of it (some Mudhoney, Nirvana, Melvins, etc.) were based off songwriting (as well as power chords).
David Ryder 09-20-2006 10:43 PM
Nice thread Idea.

Metal's pretty much all I listen to, always have always will. As far as favorite genre of metal goes it's Black Metal all the way. However I do branch out into Death, Thrash, NSBM, Power, and other "True" Metal genre's as they are called. Also the european metal scene destorys the US scene. Also Hardcore is hardly metal, it's just heavy punk rock.

Black Metal because, I like the music, although the lyrics about satan, and what not are cheese as all hell, but the music is very good, and it's really sets a interesting mood. Also Black Metal isn't just Death Metal with keyboards as it has been called before. Mainsteam Black Metal sucks though * Looks at Dimmu Borgir*

Death Metal isn't nearly as good as it use to be. Gone are the days of Obituary, Death, and Possessed and good Death Metal. Tis a shame, although several good bands have been coming out in the past few years such as Nile.

Melodic Death Metal is ok, In Flames is good, as is old Soil Work. However this genre has also fallen from grace, and every single new "Metal" band these days, is just Recycling the same riffs that where done well over 15-20 years ago.

Thrash is also good. Slayer, Mega Death, and Kreator just to name a few are all excellent bands, however, I never could get into Metallica, they released a decent album or two but I have always found them to be very overrated. Although they did influence many a band.

And yes Dragonforce is metal. I'm also glad the whole Nu Metal fad has passed but it paved the way for the new generation of Metalcore, who love to play the worn out Melodeath genre.
Travis Bickle 09-20-2006 10:50 PM
Apparently, everyone in Europe takes the whole metal thing a million times more seriously (for example, the whole black metal "burning down churches" thing in Norway, which is one of the only reasons I really listen to black metal). They also happen to like Municipal Waste a lot more than we do.
David Ryder 09-20-2006 11:40 PM
quote:
the whole black metal "burning down churches" thing in Norway


It's a shame Mayhem, has gone Vegan these days. The Black Metal scene has lost it in terms of blastphemous acts. No more Dead killing himself and then the rest of the band use the picture as a CD cover. Also Varg Vikernes murdered Øystein Aarseth aka Euronymous, burned a few churches, got sent to prison, tried to escape, and then got a few more years added to his sentence.

And how could we forget Bård G. "Faust" Eithun. Who murdered a gay man in the park and it took them over a year to catch them. Although I always found the satan part extreamly goofy.
Travis Bickle 09-20-2006 11:50 PM
Going Vegan is possibly the worst thing to happen to a Black Metal band. HAHAHAHAHAHA
ZeroKirbyX 09-21-2006 12:30 AM
Only metal I've ever really gotten into was industrial like Rammstein and classic stuff like Ratt and Twisted Sister. Maybe Alice Cooper if you'd consider that as metal.
seraphjei 09-21-2006 01:09 AM
Neo classic metal is my metal genre of choice. However many will argue that neo-classic isn't a genre of metal at all. Bands that fall under the genre of neo-classic metal which are my favorites include.
  • moi dix mois (japanese)
  • Symphony X
  • X-Japan
  • Adagio
  • Apocalyptica
  • Malice Mizer
  • Children of Bodom
  • Yngwie J. Malmsteen (solo artist)
  • Concerto Moon
My next favorite genre of metal is Death metal and all its sub genres as well. Pig vocals may seem as a talentless excuse for singing but I beg to differ. The universal use of double bass pedals also adds to death metals signature sound. however there is a lot of debate as to what bands are truly death metal. IMO
  • suffocation
  • opeth
  • cannibal corpse
  • disgorge
  • carcass
  • cadaver
  • cynic
  • disembowlment
There are plenty of other genres out there, and many other bands that can be raised to be debated as true metal, or pathetic fakes. Of coruse there are a few bands without question that were the originators of metal, the two bands are Black sabbath, and Led Zeppelin, and metallica. Three complete different styles that have such a lasting imprint on the entire genre of rock itself. But just for fun, dicussing old bands is also quite interesting. I've always wanted to hear others peoples opinions on the matter of classic metal bands. Who is? Who isn't? Is AC/DC metal? is KISS? Motorhead? Your thoughts?

And on the subject of black metal, if they put in time and effort into their music, then power to it. Music > Church burning IMHO.
RoseRose 09-21-2006 01:20 AM
I prefer rock over metal, typically, but when I do listen to metal, well, here's what I listen to:

Metallica (Enter Sandman and Nothing Else Matters are my two favorite songs)
Ron Halford, on occasion
Alice Cooper (I have one song by him)
Black Sabbath
Disturbed
Dragonforce (My boyfriend's a HUGE fan, I think they're pretty good)

And whatever else the metal friend of mine gave me, but those are the ones I like enough to care about.
David Ryder 09-21-2006 04:13 AM
quote:
Going Vegan is possibly the worst thing to happen to a Black Metal band.


Indeed. And what's sad it isn't just one or two bands. Good thing Dark Funeral, and Gorgoroth are keeping it Kvlt.

Motorhead is indeed metal. Speed Metal to be exact.
Kiss, more hard rock and glam rock, but they do have a few metal moments.
AC/DC again more hard rock.

Speaking of Dragonforce, while I think they are quite good, I was listening to all three of their CD's and came to the shocking conclusion, that their songs from album to album sounds way way to similar.

And yes Blast beats, solo's, and double bass own all.
Blue Crow 09-23-2006 12:00 PM
i dabble in metal from time to time. in my collection you're sure to find some:

  • unearth
  • rammstein
  • between the buried and me
  • killswitch engage


but i tend to favor hardcore a little more. bands like -

  • the bled
  • as i lay dying
  • through the eyes of the dead
  • chiodos


and don't get me started on grindcore (it's my favorite) -

  • the locust
  • the number 12 looks like you


of course, i know you could dice all these bands up into smaller, more precise (?) groups. but it's a lot easier this way.

-BC
David Ryder 09-23-2006 04:05 PM
Bands such as As I lay Dying and Kill Switch Engaged are often a hot topic for debate in the Metal world, as is the Metalcore genre in general. Metalcore is a fushion genre of Hardcore Punk and Metal, and is often looked down upon in the world of metal, because they see it as ripping of Swedish Melodic Death Metal.

It is however not a new genre, as many in the mainsteam press would believe, and has been going on since the late 80's and is often said to have been started by the band Dirty Rotten Imbeciles. However old school metalcore was much different than todays. Old school metalcore was a mix of thrash metal and hardcore punk, whilst todays metalcore is a mix of Melodeath and Harcore punk. While many hardcore metal fans loath metalcore, I thing some of the bands are good, but I will admit that many of the modern metalcore bands lack any sort of originality what so ever. I'll post my personal thoughs on this matter below.

Some examples of metalcore bands of today are, As I lay dying, Kill Switch, and Trivium just to name a few. Alot of metalcore bands are extreamly popular in this day and age, and none more so than Trivium. Trivium came in 2000 seemingly out of nowhere, and thus far have gain a either huge following, or People hate them with a passion. Many claim they are just one in the many bands to come out in recent years that play this style, while others say they are the saviors of metal. They have also been called the next Metallica, and I can see why, considering they have been playing and endless copycat game, their album The Crusade proves this.
major pain 09-23-2006 04:48 PM
Metal dominats a huge spot of the music I listen to, I do get tired of it from time to time but thats really rare.
David Ryder 10-03-2006 01:58 PM
I've always been fascinated by the mainstream version's of Metal. While not a fan of them, I'd like to share my thoughts on them. Let's begin shall we?

Glam Metal: Ah yes, Glam Metal, the genre that formed the sterotype of Metal beging, a bunch of girly looking guys. Glam Metal was hugly popular in the 80' until the early 90's, which thank god Grunge killed Glam off, but it is making a come back with bands such as The Murder Dolls. While Glam did have many elements of metal and rock music, such as Guitar solo's and what ahve you, it is often looked down upon by "Extream Metal" fans, myself included. Famous Glam band are, Motley Crue, Quiet Riot and Twisted Sister among others.

Nu-Metal: A genre of Metal that started emerging around 93-94, as Grunge started to decline, although Nu Metal does draw elements from Grunge. However some of the first signs of what would later be called Nu Metal can be seen in early 90's Anthrax and their teaming up with Public Enemy. Also influences are drawn from Ice-T's Hardcore Punk/Crossover Thrash band, "Body Count", although Ice-T never rapped on any of records, it did get attention from the rap audience. Nu Metal hit it big when Korn (yes, they are Nu Metal) released their first album and are often considered the God Father's (along with Limp Bizkit) of Nu Metal. Nu Metal has since died out somewhat, but it's still around, but has taken the back seat in popularity to Metalcore. In short Nu Metal sucks.

Alernative Metal: Ummm, I have no idea, what this genre is suppose to sound like. If anyone knows, then I'd like to know.

Metalcore: While not a new genre of music, it has gained a tremendous amount of popularity in the last six or sever years. Metalcore or modern metalcore actually get's it's influences from Hardcore Punk and Metal, more precisely, Swedish Melodic Death Metal such as In Flames and Soil Work, as well as Thrash and more recently Black Metal. Although I feel, and many other Metal fans, feel that many of the Metalcore bands play a simple formula of "Chugga Chugga" riffs of Hardcore Punk, and the solo's of bands of In Flames, and Soil Work and the entire Melodeath genre itself and forsake the idea doing anything original. You can tell, and many of these bands have hit it big play a "New" style of music.

Whew! that was fun.
spiked-knives 10-15-2006 01:10 AM
Well I hate sounding soo typical, but my favorite metal genre is indeed, Melodic Death metal, or Gothenburg metal, whichever.



I mean sure, we have a bunch of crappy metalcore copycats and fanboy bands, but still the genre in it's hayday was great.

my favorite bands would be:

In Flames ( i sitll believe these guys for the most part always do somthing worthwhile)
at the gates
arch enemy (with Michael Amott, though I do like their female lead)
Carcass
Dark Tranquility
Children of Bodom


typical choices there too, but still i find each band to have great talent, and a lot of good songs.



other favorite genres would be thrash, grind, and some black

metallica (pre-black album[such and overrated album])
slayer
opeth
cradle of filith (sue me? ok?)
Nile
Sigh
Cannibal Corpse
Tool (sure their more alt. but who cares?)
Emperor



anyway does anyone happen enjoy some sludge metal or stoner rock? bands like kyuss, monster magnet, melvins?
David Ryder 10-15-2006 01:27 AM
quote:
I mean sure, we have a bunch of crappy metalcore copycats and fanboy bands, but still the genre in it's hayday was great.


This is true, however, this style has been copied so much by so many Metalcore bands these days, I can't even bring myself to even listen to the classics like In Flames.

quote:
Emperor


Emperor kicks huge amounts of ass, however their newer stuff is way way to Death Metal for my tastes, However their old pure Black Metal albums are
classics, much like Satyricon, before they went all mainstream.

quote:
slayer


I still listen to all of Slayers older CD's like Reign in Blood and South of Heaven all the time. However their newer stuff like Christ Illussion is a jokem it's border line Nu Metal.

I'm not really much of a Sludge Metal fan.

I do like Death Metal, however I tend to favor Technical Death Metal like Gorgots, and Nile.
Travis Bickle 10-15-2006 06:46 AM
quote:
Originally posted by spiked-knives
anyway does anyone happen enjoy some sludge metal or stoner rock? bands like kyuss, monster magnet, melvins?


I'm a huge sludge metal/stoner rock fan. I'm going to see the Melvins in about a month or so for the third time.

And Kyuss is FTW.
spiked-knives 10-15-2006 12:30 PM
quote:
Originally posted by David Ryder
quote:
I mean sure, we have a bunch of crappy metalcore copycats and fanboy bands, but still the genre in it's hayday was great.


This is true, however, this style has been copied so much by so many Metalcore bands these days, I can't even bring myself to even listen to the classics like In Flames.

quote:
Emperor


Emperor kicks huge amounts of ass, however their newer stuff is way way to Death Metal for my tastes, However their old pure Black Metal albums are
classics, much like Satyricon, before they went all mainstream.

quote:
slayer


I still listen to all of Slayers older CD's like Reign in Blood and South of Heaven all the time. However their newer stuff like Christ Illussion is a jokem it's border line Nu Metal.

I'm not really much of a Sludge Metal fan.

I do like Death Metal, however I tend to favor Technical Death Metal like Gorgots, and Nile.



agreed, Nile is amazing, I loved their Annihilation of the Wicked album, pure gold for me.

I honestly don't know if i could compare Slayer's newer stuff in terms of music to nu-metal, popularity maybe, with all the hot topic success they've been getting. But still I didn't find to much nu-metal in their new album, just a bunch of mediocore songs. It sounded like typical slayer, though i did enjoy the sing Cult a bit.


I honestly have never checked out Emperor's newer stuff to be honest with you, i've heard mixed thing. Though I wouldn't mind giving it a whirl or so.

You like Mayhem or a newer band by the name of Abigail Williams?


oh an yes, i would try to not let the fan bands crappy copies to detour you from old In Flames, the Jester Race kicked huge quantities of ass, tons if fact.




quote:
I'm a huge sludge metal/stoner rock fan. I'm going to see the Melvins in about a month or so for the third time.And Kyuss is FTW.


awesome, a fellow fan. Be sure to update on how the concert goes, I've heard Melvin's concerts are pretty wild.
David Ryder 10-15-2006 05:46 PM
quote:
You like Mayhem or a newer band by the name of Abigail Williams?


Old Mayhem was aweseome. Church burnings, murder and questionable comments on race by Hellhammer(although many fans including myself agree he wasn't being serious), but like all 2nd wave Black Metal bands they have denounced such views. As for Abigail Williams, I detest them more than any other Metalcore band so far. They are just another typical Metalcore band that use Black Metal elements to be alittle different from the rest. Everything about them screams Metalcore, the vocals switch from typical hardcore shouting and awful Black Metal shrieks and a keyboardist that just sits back and plays random "scary noises" and choir ah's and the fact that she's sucks doesn't help either. How they got a spot on Emperor's reunion tour is beyond me.

quote:
I honestly have never checked out Emperor's newer stuff to be honest with you, i've heard mixed thing.


Yeah, that's the thing about Emperor's new stuff, you either love it or hate it. I don't mind it but it isn't the greatest. Many claim it strayed to far classic Black Metal and into a more Death Metal sound, and I do agree. Ihsahn's first solo album is an instant classic in my book. It blends so many style of metal, from Progressive and Thrash to Black and Death, defiantly a good listen.