Religion

Robot7290 08-22-2006 12:19 AM
Look, this really doesn't have to do that much with the Big O, but I'd much rather post it here.

I've been thinking about the ties between Big O and what it was saying about religion. Recently, I've been doing some really deep, heavy thinking. I used to be a Christian, but now that I think about it, I'm nothing now. Schwarzvald said (once the stagelights appeared) that humanity was always hoping for the ever-comforting presencse of gods looking down at us from the sky.

Personally, this made me drop Religion. Not just this, but the Big O as a whole. And DON'T say I'm taking the Big O too far, and PLEASE don't say "It's just a TV show." I'm not adopting the Big O as my religion. The Big O merely showed me another PERSPECTIVE. A perspective free of biases that I would have carried.

I used to believe in all that Christian stuff, but now I don't. I don't believe that when I die, my "soul" *which has yet to be detected by modern science) magically floats up to the sky to chill with an old dude in a white beard for the rest of eternity. I don't believe that there is a hell with a dancing red man with a pitchfork and horns.

Humans created the idea of heaven because of the FEAR that they will go nowhere when they die. Like it or not, there is not ONE single piece of evidence to support that ANY religion is true. Nothing can defy physics. So I'm not about to believe that some dude walked around pulling microscopic viruses out of people's bloodstreams and cured blindness with the powers of "mud".

And I understand a lot of Crhistians don't believe in some of that stuff. But you people must understand: Religion is there to comfort us, so we may hide from fear. Those old guys sitting it the churches and temples and monestaries... they are telling us what to think. They say, "Don't think about existance, but instead don't worry. You will magically live forever when you die." Look everyone, you can cower in fear of the unknown and accept this false comfort. Or you can think, just think! If you run everything through your mind, you will discover that nothing in Christianity really makes sense. (note: I'm also talking about all religions, but Christianity is the largest).

Myself, I am not a Christian, nor an aethiest.
And believe it or not, I'm not an agnostic.
I do believe in a God, and I personally think the Big O helped me with this enlightened perspective of mine. Now a lot of you are probably Christians, and you won't like me after this, and that's OK. But instead of ignoring this because its "heresy" (oh yeah, why does the church get angry at you for thinking of something new or different? BLASPHEMY!), I truly implore you to read this. And think, just thinking of something new and different instead of what the church tells you to believe will open a whole new path for you.

A lot of people know where thier lives are going, and what they are going to be, and whre they will retire, but in my case I know none of that. All I know is that Im a guy, but I have yet to discover the truth. And I will make it my life's journey to die with no worry, to die with everything about existence and life known to me. But that is a far way off.

Anyways, I've got my whole life to discover the meaning of life.
Travis Bickle 08-22-2006 12:46 AM
What you're putting on is called a "facade". It's basically a cry for attention. It's a phase. You'll grow out of it.

Giant robot cartoons shouldn't really influence your faith. If they do, then more power to you.

And no, Transformers are not a gift from God.
Robot7290 08-22-2006 12:49 AM
Seriously dude, you must be pretty shallow. Who cares WHAT influences you? Just because there is a stereotype of TV shows influencing people doesn't mean that some shows don't change your view of life. And if a TV show influences you in a positive way, why is that bad?
Travis Bickle 08-22-2006 12:57 AM
It's just so routine. People being influenced by the media. Sure, when I saw Clockwork Orange for the first time, I wore a bowler's hat and fake eyelashes to school because I thought the movie was tits and that I would look cool. But it's so typical. Like how Judas Priest influenced a bunch of kids to kill themselves. Somehow, down here, Hellsing and Naruto make a bunch of 14 year old girls walk around in bondage pants and stupid ass bandanas with music notes on them.

It's just so played out, the whole "anime dictates my life and beliefs". I'm not saying that what you're following and what you believe in is bad. I'm just saying that (without even knowing you or knowing about your life) the Big O is not to really be taken too seriously (which some people should learn). It wasn't written with various motifs in mind and underlying meanings. It was a series of storyboards churned out for two seasons to make a (small) profit. It was totally kick ass, though, don't get me wrong.

I don't know, I'm rambling at 2 am. One thing you shouldn't take seriously is me.
Robot7290 08-22-2006 03:59 AM
I do see what you mean by people being influenced, etc, etc...

In this case, I am arbitrary in my decisions. The Big O merely showed me a new angle on what si possibly the biggest thing in my life: What I think of existance. Most of what is written there comes from my own thought.

Personally, I'm influenced by tons of stuff. Hell, I've always wanted a Spinfusor ever since I played my first game of Tribes.

But I think this case, with the topic that it is dealing with, and taking into account my decisions, again made by myself and myself only, I can assuredly say that while although many aspects of the Big O did weigh heavily on me, the show itself has only laid the groundwork for my thinking on the subject.

P.S. Also, I'm not "following" the Big O (notice my lack of knowledge on forum quoting), it just showed me a new perspective on an important thing in my life, as said above.

More postscript: About the two seasons being churned out to make a small profit, I know the first season was all profit (I can't pull myself to put in those DVD's anymore Tongue ), the second season was something more. Even if various motifs and underlying meanings were not INTENDED, the human mind has a wonderful way or decifering given data and making further interpretations and even improvements on themselves from such data. Such is the case with the last 5 or 6 (I think 5) episodes of the Big O. I actually understood then of a level I never thought I would have before.

Oh, and I agree, it was totally KICKASS. Big Grin
Nine Kuze 08-22-2006 01:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Travis Bickle
It's just so routine. People being influenced by the media. Sure, when I saw Clockwork Orange for the first time, I wore a bowler's hat and fake eyelashes to school because I thought the movie was tits and that I would look cool.

Scott, you continue to amaze me. Damn, why didn't I think of that?

quote:
Originally posted by Robot7290
If you run everything through your mind, you will discover that nothing in Christianity really makes sense. (note: I'm also talking about all religions, but Christianity is the largest).

I agree with this and also what Scott said about how people look to the media way too much and social stereotypes to dicate what should and what shouldn't make up their own lives.

quote:
Originally posted by Robot7290
I used to believe in all that Christian stuff, but now I don't. I don't believe that when I die, my "soul" (which has yet to be detected by modern science) magically floats up to the sky to chill with an old dude in a white beard for the rest of eternity. I don't believe that there is a hell with a dancing red man with a pitchfork and horns.

While I believe with the majority of this, I not feelin' you on the soul thing. This bothers me sometimes but just because science hasn't "proven" it, it by no cause means that it doesn't exist. You can disagree with people's views on religion (and for the majority part, I do), but just because it can't be explained by science doesn't mean anything. I don't for the most part believe all that much on a soul, but that's its not because science hasn't proved it yet, I just don't believe in the common assumption of what the mass media refers to as a soul.

But that's just me, and you gotta do your own thing. And its cool to see that Big O has an influence on ya.
Peace.
Tsukaggin 08-22-2006 01:48 PM
Well first of all. . .
quote:
I will make it my life's journey to die with no worry, to die with everything about existence and life known to me.


You have just set yourself up for the ultimate failure. Short of deluding yourself on your death bed, that's an impossible task. You can live to be several hundred years old and still find new things in life. That's the beauty of it.

Now, on to the serious business.

I personally, am not Christian, Agnostic, Atheist, Jewish, or what ever else you can name. I have my own beliefs. I am grounded in science. But, I do not close myself off to the supernatural. hundreds of years ago, Magnets where magic. Now we know how they work.

Even now there are unexplained events taking place, in correspondence with severe temperature drops, high electric fields, and seemingly deliberate motions. These are typically labeled as "ghost sightings". This is what I base my beliefs in an afterlife on. I think that upon death, if the will of the dead is to remain on earth they can be caught in a "limbo" of sorts in which the electric signals remain cohesive in a disembodied state. Energy after all, cant be destroyed. I believe in an afterlife, and a supreme entity that started the universe. Primarily because, if it where all random, we wouldn't be here. The way our universe works - physics, evolution, stars, planets- are too complex to be random. Now, this is all speculative. I have no proof beyond the theoretical. But for me, theoretical proof is enough reason to give anything a second look, even if I don't believe in it. Everything was theoretical at some point.

You shouldn't let a lack of solid proof shatter your reality. Nor should you worship because the Vatican says so. You should do what feels right. Because let me tell you something I'VE discovered over recent years.

There's no reason to not believe in God and an afterlife if you don't want to. Thats the ONE area of life where you really DON'T need to worry about being right. Really.

Lets say you do. If you're wrong, what happens? You cease to exist, and took comfort all your life in the (false) knowledge that you would continue living. But you didn't spend your life worrying, or trying to do a million things JUST because you thought you'd stop existing. If you're right, well then you get to keep on trucking. It's win win.

If it is all false, It's a placebo I'm willing to take. Because I have better things to do then worry about weather or not God exists, when it's something I can't answer until I die. So I might as well believe it, take comfort in it, and get on with my life.

-Tsukaggin
Xel 08-22-2006 03:20 PM
*raises hand* While I see the connections to Big O here, and that this topic is rooted in it, wouldn't this topic be better placed in The Speakeasy or even Ailesberry Farm? Since the entire forum is about Big O, first and foremost, I don't think we'd lose any of the understanding of that element were it placed somewhere other than Smith Mansion, which is primarily devoted to the diegesis of the series... especially as it's rapidly turning into a discussion of one's personal beliefs in the larger world.

Your mileage may vary, of course.
Shadow dorothy 08-22-2006 06:22 PM
Boy stick with what you had. As many old brits once said "Without God there will be no man" so come back to your religion and think about this- I'm chirstan and I watch the Big O and it made me think "without God I wouldn't have my friends or anything I got right now". YOU ARE TAKING THE SHOW FAR TO SERIUOSLY. Think about what you gave up and what you left behind. And that Big o was given an award for being the most religious show.
minespatch 08-22-2006 06:49 PM
i understand completely what you are saying here. Big O too has inspired me, and i'm a mormon. there are some interesting theories & hypothesis's that allow me a bigger view on things.

going off topic here:
Ghost In A Shell has also influenced me, by the discussions of the tachcommas.

then theres Fullmetal Alchemist. hiromu arakawa is a smart woman with interesting theories and her world of alchemists is a nice touch. though, i like her theories on Equivilent Exchange.
Generalissimo D 08-22-2006 07:10 PM
Burn by the flames of my durag-molotov, you filthy heretic.

Just kidding, because if I did that I'd have to get Nine a new one. Consecrated Promethium will do.


Hi ho, hi ho, to the Speakeasy this goes.
Mugiwara Luffy 08-22-2006 09:29 PM
I third the "move to Speakeasy" motion.

On to business:

"Soul" or not, there is definitely some sort of life force. I don't mean that in a fruity new-age sense either. Look at a bacterium under a microscope and it moves. It's alive. Zap it with electricity and it dies. It is no longer alive. Did it lose it's soul? (please, let's not get into arguments about how only human have souls. I'm not concerned with that). Obviously there was some force that made the bacterium alive and now that force is gone. Maybe I don't know enough about the subject, but as far as I know, science hasn't determined exactly what that force is.

This is where I personally believe the role of any sort of higher being comes in. Science can explain almost everything else in the universe but not how it started, or how life started. Was it just electricity zapping a pool of goo and suddenly a self-sustaining organism was created? What about the Big Bang theory? I can accept that there was a huge mass of matter and that it randomly exploded thus creating the universe, but how did that matter get there in the first place? Has it always been there? I have my own theories on this but it diverges from my main points on religion.

Religion exists to account for the unexplained. The unknown. Fear, as you and Schwarzwald have pointed out. In a universe that could potentially have no point, no grandiose meaning of life, no real purpose, people need something to help them cope with this meaninglessness. People create their own meaning. The majority of people have done this with religion, so they don't need to busy their minds with constant worrying about the meaning of life and so forth, and they can just eat, sleep, have sex, go shopping, have a job, fall in love, etc. I won't get into "meaning of life" stuff right now either.

As for Big O influencing your thoughts, I say what's the big deal? (not to you Robot7290, but to everyone who thinks it's bad, or "routine") The show isn't brainwashing you, it's providing with with new viewpoints, new ideas to chew on just like every piece of great art or literature. That's the whole point. Big O could have been a show of constant robot battles, fanservice, and static characters, and we wouldn't have this site. There wouldn't be hundreds of pages of discussion on this forum. The show is not merely entertainment, it is stimulating.

I think everyone questions their beliefs. It's a good thing. I still am not clear on what exactly it is that I believe, but I'm clearer than I was three years ago. I think religious people have come to the conclusion that their religion is the best philosophy for them. Either that or they have just been so brainwashed. I wish there was more openmindedness in the world. In the end, just keep searching for what you believe and don't be afraid to let new ideas into your head.
piccorotto 08-22-2006 10:16 PM
Er, if you believe in a God, but haven't devoted to a religion... isn't that the same as agnosticism?

Personally, I've never been taken to any kind of building of worship (for the purposes of worship at least). I was baptized into Catholicism as a baby, but that's about as far as that went. As a kid, I more or less believed in some of Christianity with the same air of believing in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy (really, that's not meant to be demeaning).

In a nutshell, I say God or whatever existing is just as possible as God or whatever not existing. And if he/she/it does exist... well, I'm pretty sure going to a building every week would be the least priority of an infiintely wise being. Doesn't affect my day to day life anymore, as I'm more focused on the here and now (and I'm a nice guy anyway).
Robot7290 08-22-2006 11:50 PM
Yeah.. about the soul comment... I don't believe that humans contains "souls", but something else. While what we think of a "soul" nowadays may be wavering, the most common thing associated with soul is the Christian version of a soul. That's what I don't believe in. I do believe in a god (someone had to create that first little piece of plasma that was the big bang) and I do believe in an existence of ourselves that extends beyond death.

I know religion as a whole is really controversial, thats why I originally posted this in the Big O series forum. I don't mind it being here in the Speakeasy, but this was intended for that forum; again I don't mind that much.

And again, you can burn me all you want. I'm used to it. Many people don't want to listen to anything wavering from thier current belief. I'm glad a couple of you people reading my post did listen. So thank you.
David Ryder 08-23-2006 01:16 AM
The fact that someone is morally moved and changes one beliefs based on a cartoon is sad. Just my two cents. Big O is just that a cartoon, much like anime is just a hobby of mine, and I to am sick of the whole "Anime is life" train of though that floats around in this bowl of morals and truths that is the internet.
Xel 08-23-2006 01:33 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Gaddes
The fact that someone is morally moved and changes one beliefs based on a cartoon is sad. Just my two cents. Big O is just that a cartoon, much like anime is just a hobby of mine, and I to am sick of the whole "Anime is life" train of though that floats around in this bowl of morals and truths that is the internet.


That's just the thing, though. I see nowhere in the original post anything expressing an "anime is life" mentality. In fact, he appears to say just the opposite:

quote:
I'm not adopting the Big O as my religion. The Big O merely showed me another PERSPECTIVE.


So where do we draw the line? Does Big O's status as animation completely invalidate the worth it might otherwise bear for somebody? Is it sad to be profoundly and irreparably moved by a movie, then? A play? A poem? A book?

It's always a bad idea to take a single source and make that the single, solitary thing you look to in your life to nurture your morals and beliefs and the way you live your life and view the world. But that's not what's happening here. What I'm reading is that a person took what he heard from this work, reflected on it, and it caused him to rethink the conclusions he had previously made in his life. Would that it were so easy for everyone.

Big O is just a cartoon, you're quite right. But I fail to see, because the vehicle for the ideas it presents happens to be a cartoon, how or why that would devalue the ideas themselves, were one to integrate those ideas into their own preexisting world view.
Robot7290 08-23-2006 01:58 AM
Thank you ever so much Xel. Please, read what she wrote. She sums it up VERY nicely.
David Ryder 08-23-2006 04:53 AM
quote:
That's just the thing, though. I see nowhere in the original post anything expressing an "anime is life" mentality. In fact, he appears to say just the opposite:


Sigh. Why does everyone have to take everything I say out of context? I never mentioned his name. I was making a simple statement.
Xel 08-23-2006 05:00 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Gaddes
quote:
That's just the thing, though. I see nowhere in the original post anything expressing an "anime is life" mentality. In fact, he appears to say just the opposite:


Sigh. Why does everyone have to take everything I say out of context? I never mentioned his name. I was making a simple statement.


Mmm. *cocks head* While that's true, I wonder just how much one is supposed to distance himself from a statement like that in a topic like this. Of course, I'm operating on the assumption that the statement was delivered with respect to the subject at hand, as a person tends to do when faced with a... statement related to the subject at hand. It had to have had something to do with this scenario, or it wouldn't have been said in the first place. Am I wrong? Big Grin
David Ryder 08-23-2006 05:15 AM
As I stated before, just making a simple statement. Nothing more too it really. *shrugs*