Religion

ScionofDestiny 08-25-2006 02:19 PM
To be fair, it doesn't matter if the Big O is a cartoon. It is a screenplay that deals with some pretty tough philosophical concepts and abstractions. Concepts are immortal and it doesn't matter whether we recognize them or not - they are there.

I've never been religious, although I do appreciate the mythology and spiritual philosophy of various religions, I do know that it is extremely unhealthy and impractical to view them as word-by-word true to the last letter.

Otherwise, I would have to believe the world was flat.
Robot7290 08-25-2006 03:45 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ScionofDestiny
I do know that it is extremely unhealthy and impractical to view them as word-by-word true to the last letter.


Yes! That is one of the reasons I decided to change. I would be a christian if it was just a lifestyle, like being kind to everyone and loving and charitable. I like your example of the world being flat.
Gummibear 08-28-2006 10:07 PM
I think it's perfectally acceptable that people can find a deeper meaning in a show like Big O. I can liken it to the effect music has on some people, how art has affected human beings throughout time. I don't think it was the show that made you change your philosphy, but I do believe it probably inspired you, in the way music or art inspires others. Everyone's interpretations are entirely different but it doesn't mean they are any less valid. That's why I will not comment on your particular set of beliefs.

I'll just share my own,

I was raised Roman Catholic but I don't really go to church often. Because I personally believe that the world should be were we practice our beliefs. I believe in following the golden rule "Do unto to others as you would like to have done unto yourself". In my eyes God is a loving one, who accepts and loves all of his creations. I also do believe in the existance of a human soul. Science can't explain everything. Once I heard what the chemical reactions were that supposedly caused the feeling of "love" but I choose not to believe in that scientific analysis. Don't get me wrong I'm not against science but I think that love is something that shouldn't try to be disected or else we lose some of the magic that is living.

I think religion is a very personal topic. We should listen to ourselves in order to find the beliefs we are truly at peace with.
Tsukaggin 08-28-2006 10:21 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Gummibear
Once I heard what the chemical reactions were that supposedly caused the feeling of "love" but I choose not to believe in that scientific analysis.


That's my issue with the church. Weather you believe it or not, It's true. There are chemical reactions in the brain that cause Love. The fact that you think love would be less special where you to beleive this is what I find absurd. Is a sunset less special because it's just a ball of gas in space that's slipping behind us due to our rotation, thus refracting its light so as to tinge the atmosphere pinks and oranges? No. It's still a beutiful sight. Chrristianity really needs to open up to the idea that science and religion CAN co-exist. Why can't god have made a universe where things evolve? You beleive in physics surely. God had to have made that. Is evolution such a big step? No. Not really no.

And that's my beef with the church. Too many closed minded extremists.

/rant
Big Money 08-28-2006 10:30 PM
quote:
That's my issue with people who take issue with the church. Weather you believe it or not, not everybody that calls themselves Christian subscribes to the same newspaper, if you get what I'm saying. There are plenty of denomitations, and its the loud, stupid ones that ruin it for everyone else. The fact that you think everyone that goes to church wants to destroy evolution is a little upsetting. Is a belief less special because it's not based on scientific fact? No. It's a belief, and functions on faith. Athiests and Agnostics really need to open up to the idea that science and religion CAN co-exist. Why can't god have made a universe where things evolve? You beleive in physics surely. God had to have made that. Is evolution such a big step? No. Not really no.

And that's my beef with people with beef with the church. Too many closed minded extremists.

/rant


I apologize to anyone who might have been offended, but I thought a copypasta might have been in order. I don't mean to be a jerk, I just have a severe lack of appreciation for this double standard, which repeats itself often on the internets.
Tsukaggin 08-28-2006 10:40 PM
Uhh, Big Money, if that was an attempt to make a come back statement, you failed pretty miserably by leaving my basic point intact. At least to me.

Though, Denying Science really outranks denying faith. When theres proof something exists, and you deny it because it might mean a re-evaluation of your faith- i.e. ungrounded- based beleifs, then I'm sorry, you need a wake up call. ANY beleif system that isn't flexible enough to withstand re-evaluation needs to be tossed in the dumpster.

I really don't care what every indevidual christian thinks. It's the Infrastructure as a whole I dislike, and the extremists that allow it to go on. The back woods preachers, the closed minded nuns, the ancient uneducated bishops, who can't accept anything that might contradict them, and their extremist fallowers.
The Fallen Phoenix 08-28-2006 10:42 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Tsukaggin
That's my issue with the church. Weather you believe it or not, It's true. There are chemical reactions in the brain that cause Love. The fact that you think love would be less special where you to beleive this is what I find absurd. Is a sunset less special because it's just a ball of gas in space that's slipping behind us due to our rotation, thus refracting its light so as to tinge the atmosphere pinks and oranges? No. It's still a beutiful sight. Chrristianity really needs to open up to the idea that science and religion CAN co-exist. Why can't god have made a universe where things evolve? You beleive in physics surely. God had to have made that. Is evolution such a big step? No. Not really no.

And that's my beef with the church. Too many closed minded extremists.

/rant


...and this is my beef with people who don't understand that the Church has gotten past that. As have most of its thinking members. So please, don't make blanket statements about how "Christianity" and "the Church" needs to open up to the idea that science and religion can co-exist, because it has.

That's my rant. And I don't mean to single you out, Tsukaggin, I know you aren't intending to generalize, but I've seen people generalize so many times before, and it pisses me off.

So...yeah, I agree, Religion and Science can--and should--co-exist. And there are indeed too many closed-minded extremists in the world, but you won't find a majority of them in the Church (or even religious, for the matter). But that's the world we live in.

In any case, getting back to the subject matter. I don't know that we humans have souls, any more than any physicist knows why light behaves as a particle and a wave, or any more than a physicist knows what's beyond the Event Horizon of a Black Hole, or what happened tens of billions of years ago.

There are a lot of things in the universe that we don't know and it doesn't extend to "metaphysics", the "supernatural", "souls", or religion. Belief is essential in humans, regardless of the subject matter: it isn't always restricted to religious faith. I think that's something people lose track of, sometimes. And faith, like mountains, can erode and be rocked: we should doubt our faith, and question it, and explore it even deeper. Whether that faith concerns God, souls, an afterlife, General Relativity, Differentiation, the history of humanity...I can go on and on, but always keep exploring it: that's how we grow as people, I think. And it doesn't matter how that faith is influenced: it can be a play; a movie; a conversation; a person; a show; a thought; an event.

But whatever it is you believe in, make sure you believe in it: no one can believe for you. That's what makes it belief.
David Ryder 08-29-2006 07:24 AM
quote:
Too many closed minded extremists.


sigh... *shakes head*

Yes Christianity is the only religion with extreamists. Roll Eyes

This can be applied to ANY religion.
088nd 08-29-2006 10:42 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Tsukaggin
quote:
Originally posted by Gummibear
Once I heard what the chemical reactions were that supposedly caused the feeling of "love" but I choose not to believe in that scientific analysis.


That's my issue with the church. Weather you believe it or not, It's true. There are chemical reactions in the brain that cause Love. The fact that you think love would be less special where you to beleive this is what I find absurd. Is a sunset less special because it's just a ball of gas in space that's slipping behind us due to our rotation, thus refracting its light so as to tinge the atmosphere pinks and oranges? No. It's still a beutiful sight. Chrristianity really needs to open up to the idea that science and religion CAN co-exist. Why can't god have made a universe where things evolve? You beleive in physics surely. God had to have made that. Is evolution such a big step? No. Not really no.

And that's my beef with the church. Too many closed minded extremists.

/rant


How do you know it's true that chemical reactions cause love? Have YOU personally done the studies? Have you dissected a human brain and analyzed chemical compositions? Have you put electrodes on peoples heads and told them to think of someone they love? Have you done the research yourself? If you haven't, how sure are you that it is true? You're putting faith in the scientist that released his study. You're trusting that his research is right, and that he is not lying to you. You can trust him all you want, but at the end of the day, he can still be lying to you. It takes an equal amount of faith to believe everything in science as it does to believe in religion. Saying you put your belief in where the facts are is nonsense, because unless you've done all the research yourself, you TRULY don't know where all the facts are.

And I'm pretty sure the majority of Christians believe science and religion can co-exist, except for issues such as evolution.
Tsukaggin 08-29-2006 03:51 PM
No, it takes far more faith to beleive in religion then science. A scientist can tell me WHY he's not lying to me. A preacher can do what? Quote a book? Saying Science and Religion take the same amount of faith is the same as saying that it takes the same level of trust to beleive a man saying he has an object, SHOWING ME the object, as it does to beleive a man saying he has an object and won't (can't) show it to me. It's absurd.

Going on THAT logic, how do you know that the human body is made up of mostly water? Have you done that research? How do you know the earth isn't hallow? Have you dug all the way through it? Have you done the tests with the machines?

I don't mean to make blanket statements about Christianity. I'm reffering to the select indeviduals in places of power, and their fallowers. BUT Christianity DOES have more outspoken extremists then most western religions. I don't see the local Jewish groups protesting pork. (Eastern religions are another matter =/) I'm aware there are extremists every where, but I'm not reffering to them. I'm focusing on Christian extremists this rant. =/
David Ryder 08-29-2006 03:59 PM
quote:
BUT Christianity DOES have more outspoken extremists then most western religions.


Do you mean just the kind that argue over the pointless Science v.s religion or the kind like oh say a "certain other religion" that slice your throat, blow up your shops and video tape cutting your head off kind of extreamists?

Well either way this thread is most likely going to be closed soon. So meh.
Big Money 08-29-2006 04:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Tsukaggin
Uhh, Big Money, if that was an attempt to make a come back statement, you failed pretty miserably by leaving my basic point intact. At least to me.

Though, Denying Science really outranks denying faith. When theres proof something exists, and you deny it because it might mean a re-evaluation of your faith- i.e. ungrounded- based beleifs, then I'm sorry, you need a wake up call. ANY beleif system that isn't flexible enough to withstand re-evaluation needs to be tossed in the dumpster.

I really don't care what every indevidual christian thinks. It's the Infrastructure as a whole I dislike, and the extremists that allow it to go on. The back woods preachers, the closed minded nuns, the ancient uneducated bishops, who can't accept anything that might contradict them, and their extremist fallowers.


I'm not quite sure you understood what I what I meant by what I typed, so I'll clarify a bit here.

I was trying to point out, to anyone who might think that the "Christians" that you see on tv speak for everyone in the church, that just as they don't seem to understand that Christianity isn't one unified faith, many such thinkers fail to acknowledge their own point that science and religion can, and do, co-exist, and that they themselves are acting as closed-minded by refusing to acknowledge that not everyone thinks the same way, and I'm not just speaking about the odd fellow who might not agree with his fellow churchgoers, I mean entire demonitations. I intentionally left your basic point intact, to try and single out the fallacious argument. I didn't mean to pick on you, but just as FP said, there is a false generalization about Christianity and science that seems to have proliferated on the internet, and one that I personally find quite irritating.
Tsukaggin 08-29-2006 04:04 PM
I do not reffer to the terrorist kind of extremist no. As I said, eastern religions, other matter entirly. Whole other defanition of extremist. I am in no way comparing Christian Extremists who argue against any science they disaprove of, to those of terrorist muslims and such. And I'm not saying all muslims are terrorists, or even all muslim EXTREMISTS. There are many muslims who support their faith to a pig headed degree but don't go so far as to harm others.
Mike 08-29-2006 04:10 PM
I wouldn't say that Christian and Muslim extremists are all that different. Both say, basically, anyone who doesn't agree is wrong and worthless.
Nine Kuze 08-29-2006 04:12 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Tsukaggin
Going on THAT logic, how do you know that the human body is made up of mostly water? Have you done that research? How do you know the earth isn't hallow? Have you dug all the way through it? Have you done the tests with the machines?

What the hell are you talking about?

quote:
There are many muslims who support their faith to a pig headed degree but don't go so far as to harm others.

There's something that bothers me with the way this statement is detailed. Why exactly is it that its "pig-headed" to believe strongly in a particular faith? I may not agree with it myself but that by no means gives me the right (or anybody else for that matter) to say something that other people who believe in different values I believe is "pig headed". I do mean to go at you like that but that's just how I feel.

Also, I agree with B-Money and The Bird on their topics as well. The majority of people seem to think that science and religion can't go together, when in all exaculty, they can. And it's not just the Internet, its the same in real life as well. And yeah, for the most part, it is irritating.

EDIT: I also agree with what Mike said; I don't think it really matters what religion you are. For the most part, extremists have the same point of view that if you aren't with us, then you are against us. I personally don't see how Christian and Muslim extremists differ but hell, that's just me.
Peace.
Robot7290 08-29-2006 04:16 PM
I'm going to start reading The Language of God. Ya'know, just to get a scientists opinion on the whole thing. The book itself looks interesting, and this guy is a lot smarter than I am, AND its fairly new science, so it'll be good.
Tsukaggin 08-29-2006 04:16 PM
Pig headed - Faith to the extreme of denying science and fact, in favor of beleifs founded solely based on Faith, because they sound better to you.
Robot7290 08-29-2006 04:19 PM
Oh, I guess I should sort of explain it, the link to that book posted above, that's supposed to be a scientific way of believing in faith and vice-sersa. I just wanted to bump my bost to the bottom, sorry Big Grin .

P.S. Yeah the earth ain't hollow, humans are mostly water. We HAVE tested them with machines. Can I get a L to the O to the L?
David Ryder 08-29-2006 04:21 PM
All Religions have there groups that need to take a breather. Like in Hinduisum, there is often much violence between those who believe that Lord Shiva is the head God, while others argue that Lord Vishnu is the head god. Thus the concept of Harihare is brought into place, and supports that they are one in the same.

Harihare is a concept denote the unity between Lord Shiva and Lord Vishnu.

Hari = Vishnu
Hare= Shiva
Generalissimo D 08-29-2006 04:51 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Gaddes
All Religions have there groups that need to take a breather. Like in Hinduisum, there is often much violence between those who believe that Lord Shiva is the head God, while others argue that Lord Vishnu is the head god. Thus the concept of Harihare is brought into place, and supports that they are one in the same.

Harihare is a concept denote the unity between Lord Shiva and Lord Vishnu.

Hari = Vishnu
Hare= Shiva



For more indian religious fun, kids, look up the origin of the word thug.

If I could remember the book where I learned about it, I'd post that bitch in an instant, but alas that was years ago.


I personally am I Catholic (STILL WAITING FOR THE NEXT CRUSADE BABY!) by conviction. By far its most powerful reach on me is keeping my spirts up, and like that one saying goes "The only thing Mexican's have learned to trust in have been the Virgin Mary and the National Lottery."

Predestination is fact, believe it or not. Not going off anything religious, mind you, the basis on this is quite secular.

Action/Reaction. We exist in an infinitely complex and ever-expanding mathematical equation that started with the Big Bang and has been spiraling further out ever since. The human mind is simply a processor of electrical signals which, hey, result from outside stimuli and cause an action which in turn causes our reaction as physical body movement, speech, thought, or what have you.

Add or leave God and His Angels and Saints, but you have to accept this as the stone cold truth. The soul could be seen as an extrapolation of a person possibly a method of moving our concious outside of the equation and towards something else.

As for matters of faith, again it comes down to the equation that dictates our lives from cradle to the grave. The matter becomes wholly irrelevant when you come to grips with it. But speaking of the here and now, extremists are by far the most wretched people on this planet. Right up there with furries.

So yeah, thats my take on things, however incoherent.

Belittle me all you want, I'm still better than you.