Hoenheim of Light and Envy

Naraku 08-20-2006 11:34 AM
I think they might have over looked something when they showed Envy's true form. If Envy is realy old, wouldn't of Hoenheim probably been in a different body when Envy was a human and so wouldn't Envy look different from Ed and Al?
Nine Kuze 08-21-2006 02:55 PM
What do you mean? Also, maybe its the grammar of your statement that's throwing me off.

The body that we see Hohenheim in during the series is the one he used the longest, unlike Dante, who switched out of bodies numerous of times (I think she said it was nine or ten times).

So what I'm thinking is that when Hohenheim finally acquired that body, him and Dante had their son, he later on died of mercury poision at the age of eighteen, Hohenheim tried a human transmutation and failed and left Envy and Dante (probably because that's when he met and fell in love with Trisha Elric). That's why Envy looks almost exactly like his father (just add a couple more hundred years and some glasses) because that's the body that Hohenheim was wearing when he and Dante gave birth to their son.

Something just struck me; you know how the alchemist that tries a human transmution loses a part of their body in the equation (Ed and Al = right arm, left leg, an entire body, Izumi and Scar's brother = reproductive organs)? I was just wondering since Hohenheim has been in that body for a long, long time (at most 400 years), what part of that body did he have to lose in order to create Envy?

Just wondering, and I hope that I helped in some way or another.
Peace.
Tsukaggin 08-21-2006 04:24 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Nine XXVI

Something just struck me; you know how the alchemist that tries a human transmution loses a part of their body in the equation (Ed and Al = right arm, left leg, an entire body, Izumi and Scar's brother = reproductive organs)? I was just wondering since Hohenheim has been in that body for a long, long time (at most 400 years), what part of that body did he have to lose in order to create Envy?

Just wondering, and I hope that I helped in some way or another.
Peace.


Well, since they had the stone at the time most likely, it probably offset the price (no lose), without casing success.Also, while I hate to nitpick, you realize that the alchemist who tries a human transmutation usually DIES, rather then lose a body part. Ed and the rest are rare exceptions, due to their extreme level of skill.
Nine Kuze 08-21-2006 04:30 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Tsukaggin
quote:
Originally posted by Nine XXVI

Something just struck me; you know how the alchemist that tries a human transmution loses a part of their body in the equation (Ed and Al = right arm, left leg, an entire body, Izumi and Scar's brother = reproductive organs)? I was just wondering since Hohenheim has been in that body for a long, long time (at most 400 years), what part of that body did he have to lose in order to create Envy?

Just wondering, and I hope that I helped in some way or another.
Peace.


Well, since they had the stone at the time most likely, it probably offset the price (no lose), without casing success.Also, while I hate to nitpick, you realize that the alchemist who tries a human transmutation usually DIES, rather then lose a body part. Ed and the rest are rare exceptions, due to their extreme level of skill.

Um true about Dante and Hohenheim having a stone that lasted for quite a long time. Dante said (in the A Rotten Heart episode) that before he left her, Hohenheim gave her the rest of the Philosopher Stone that he apprently created that one them (the first time he succeed and almost died).

Well, that's not really true about the whole dying thing. Dante never died and she made both Greed and Pride. Hohenheim didn't die from making Envy and Izumi didn't die when Wrath was created. Trying to create the Philosopher's Stone, now that usually causes instant death, not particularly human transmutation. Although, that's not a very safe pratice as well.

It's great to see the FMA section get some action these days.Smile
Peace.
Tsukaggin 08-21-2006 04:43 PM
Dante, Hohenheim, and Izumi where all extraordinary Alchemists, far above average. I'm basing the typical death off of Roy's comment when he's checking up on their letter. "If these boys can attempt human alchemy and live, their father just dropped a rung on my priority list." Now, this implies that, on average, they would have died, with or without Winry and Pinako's help. Had they made a difference there he probably would have said something like "Good thing you where here to help.". Remember, just because most of the alchemists we meet are above ordinary, does not mean that that's standard.

The every day Alchemist would be dead.

-Tsukaggin
Green_Bird 08-21-2006 05:39 PM
But I would also like to point out that Scar's Brother didn't die when he created Lust eaither. I mean...if I remember right didn't he get killed by a bomb or something?
Nine Kuze 08-21-2006 05:48 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Green_Bird
But I would also like to point out that Scar's Brother didn't die when he created Lust eaither. I mean...if I remember right didn't he get killed by a bomb or something?

Exactly, Green_Bird. That's a point I made in my other post. Also, Scar's brother died when he transferred his right arm to replace Scar's second one.

Also going back to the first post, we have no idea what body Dante was wearing at the time so that may factor into Envy's human look as well (even though he still looks completely like Hohenheim). And also, homonculi don't age so even though Envy is 400 years old, he still looks like the eighteen year old son that died of mercury poisoning.
Peace.
Naraku 08-25-2006 04:07 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Nine XXVI
What do you mean? Also, maybe its the grammar of your statement that's throwing me off.


Yeah, sorry about that.

quote:
Originally posted by Tsukaggin
Well, since they had the stone at the time most likely, it probably offset the price (no lose), without casing success.Also, while I hate to nitpick, you realize that the alchemist who tries a human transmutation usually DIES, rather then lose a body part. Ed and the rest are rare exceptions, due to their extreme level of skill.


Well....

spoiler (highlight to read):
If you seen the movie, you would know Izumi does later die from having her organs gone. So she isn't an exception.


Back to the point, how could Hohenheim have looked like that so long ago? Does the stone also prolong a person's life?
Nine Kuze 08-28-2006 04:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Naraku
quote:
Originally posted by Nine XXVI
What do you mean? Also, maybe its the grammar of your statement that's throwing me off.


Yeah, sorry about that.

quote:
Originally posted by Tsukaggin
Well, since they had the stone at the time most likely, it probably offset the price (no lose), without casing success.Also, while I hate to nitpick, you realize that the alchemist who tries a human transmutation usually DIES, rather then lose a body part. Ed and the rest are rare exceptions, due to their extreme level of skill.


Well....

spoiler (highlight to read):
If you seen the movie, you would know Izumi does later die from having her organs gone. So she isn't an exception.


Back to the point, how could Hohenheim have looked like that so long ago? Does the stone also prolong a person's life?

Damn server messed up my first original post so I'll try and reproduce what I had before.

From what we've seen throughout the series, the Philosopher's Stone can and cannot prolong a person life. For instance, Dante and Hohenheim have been alive for 500 years because of the Philosopher's Stone ability to have its user switch souls from body to body. But because its able to do so, pieces of the user's soul gets lost during the process and eventually that person will die because of it. Look at Dante at the end of the series. She switched so many bodies that her body was already rapidly decaying when she faced Edward at the end of the series. And because Alphonse used the rest of the Philosopher's Stone to resurrect Edward (and thus, ending his own life), Dante was screwed to die in Lyra's body because her soul was rapidly expiring...

...or eaten by Gluttony in the elevator. Whichever did her in first.

Also, referring to the other part of Naraku's question, I don't really have a concrete answer on why Hohenheim has still been in the same body for the past 500 years. He was in the current body we see him in now when Envy (and the original human, his first son, that he represents) was born 400 years and still in the same body when he met, fell in love, and started his family with Trisha Elric.

I'm thinking that its because probably Hohenheim hasn't switched bodies nearly as much as Dante as. His body was shown to start decaying around or before the time Edward was born and when he see the two of them at the other side of the Gate, Hohenheim's wrist and not much further up as started to decay as well. Dante's bodies seem to go just like that but Hohenheim decays much more slower, which might mean that my first statement of him not switching bodies as much and keeping more of his soul might be on the right track.
Peace.