Neon Genesis Evangelion 10th Anniversarry Box Set

Sharpshooter005 05-21-2006 12:32 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Volt
quote:
I think that is undervaluing Evangelion. Whether you look at it from a film, scientific, or theological perspective, it is still a groundbreaking piece of work.



I don't know. I always thought that Eva was more perverted than anything. Sure, a lot of anime has fan service... but somewhere between the bathing scene with Shinji and the other guy (the last angel... forgot his anme) and the giant words "MENSTURATION" flashing on the screen during Asuka's "mind rape" scene...I think it just went a little too far.

And I mean, damn, the show is so depressing. Everything in it felt so hopeless and nihilistic. Like, what if Shinji saves the world? His dad doesn't even like him, Misato is always either out having sex with Kaji or crying cuz he died (OOPZ SPOILERS), Rei is retarded, and Asuka is... insane? And is it just me, or did it get old to hear Shinji having a schitzo conversation with himself and yelling "NO! I MUST PLEASE FATHER!" every other episode?

But hey, that's just me. But man.... there sure are some cool action sequences. I fast forwarded through an entire episode over and over again just to see Unit 1 crushing the infected Eva's head and seeing blood splatter all over the city. So sweet.


Theres a reason pretty much every character in that series (the penguin even) had a troubled past, or some sort of psychological hangup, and the general tone of the series was dark and loaded with psychological themes.

Prior to making it, Anno had been incredibly depressed, the sort of depression where you get therapy. While in therapy, he was also exposed to the freudian concepts among other things, and thought it would work well in the concept of a series. Hence we wind up with Evangelion.

Honestly, I've always found that to be the most interesting part of the series and the subsequent movies, the fact that many aspects of both were basically Anno expressing various ideas and experiences of his to the audience via the material. The series was basically sort of a cathartic release for Anno, and the movies were somewhat forced on him (the psychotically hardcore fanbase was sending death threats after they disliked the ending of the series even). In alot of ways you could take the movie as him thumbing his nose at those elements of the fanbase. Theres a whole argument, which has been done many times, that the series and movies also related to a personal indictment of the otaku lifestyle by Anno.
SEELE 08 05-21-2006 03:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Sharpshooter005
quote:
Originally posted by Volt
quote:
I think that is undervaluing Evangelion. Whether you look at it from a film, scientific, or theological perspective, it is still a groundbreaking piece of work.



I don't know. I always thought that Eva was more perverted than anything. Sure, a lot of anime has fan service... but somewhere between the bathing scene with Shinji and the other guy (the last angel... forgot his anme) and the giant words "MENSTURATION" flashing on the screen during Asuka's "mind rape" scene...I think it just went a little too far.

And I mean, damn, the show is so depressing. Everything in it felt so hopeless and nihilistic. Like, what if Shinji saves the world? His dad doesn't even like him, Misato is always either out having sex with Kaji or crying cuz he died (OOPZ SPOILERS), Rei is retarded, and Asuka is... insane? And is it just me, or did it get old to hear Shinji having a schitzo conversation with himself and yelling "NO! I MUST PLEASE FATHER!" every other episode?

But hey, that's just me. But man.... there sure are some cool action sequences. I fast forwarded through an entire episode over and over again just to see Unit 1 crushing the infected Eva's head and seeing blood splatter all over the city. So sweet.


Theres a reason pretty much every character in that series (the penguin even) had a troubled past, or some sort of psychological hangup, and the general tone of the series was dark and loaded with psychological themes.

Prior to making it, Anno had been incredibly depressed, the sort of depression where you get therapy. While in therapy, he was also exposed to the freudian concepts among other things, and thought it would work well in the concept of a series. Hence we wind up with Evangelion.

Honestly, I've always found that to be the most interesting part of the series and the subsequent movies, the fact that many aspects of both were basically Anno expressing various ideas and experiences of his to the audience via the material. The series was basically sort of a cathartic release for Anno, and the movies were somewhat forced on him (the psychotically hardcore fanbase was sending death threats after they disliked the ending of the series even). In alot of ways you could take the movie as him thumbing his nose at those elements of the fanbase. Theres a whole argument, which has been done many times, that the series and movies also related to a personal indictment of the otaku lifestyle by Anno.


The problem is, most people miss the pyschological basis for the show, most people are stuck on the sci-fi/religious window dressing. I've seen some fans go out and spend years trying to decipher the "puzzle" of NGE. There's one group of fans who really think the Lance of Longinus, Lilith's biology, and Adam's gender have a deep meaning to the show. The problem is they don't, they were just cool sounding and mysterious elements added to create an illusion of ancient and mysterious origins. But some of these wacky fanwankers have created some rather humorous fanwanky theories they take seriously...some fans will do anything to fill in the gaps...like one fan claimed NGE happened in an alternate reality and that there might be a way to get there, while another fan created her own character and inserted him into her own version of NGE and said that it was the author's intent and I just couldn't see the clues. As one person on an NGE image board said "It's true Eva attracts all the damage cases" I think that member was right. Crazy fans try to put Eva in place of their own realities, I really feel sorry for Hideaki Anno, there's a reason he swore of Eva...crazy fans.

EDIT: I'm a bitter ol' NGE fan. Too many crazy fanwankers in that particular fandom to deal with. Also here's some scary fanart to check out http://www.asuka-langley-sohryu.com/male...48194421362.jpg
Sharpshooter005 05-21-2006 05:06 AM
quote:
Originally posted by SEELE 08

Accurate gripes about the fanbase


Honestly I could hug you right now, as you've just described exactly why the fanbase caused me to become so burnt out on that series.

....I assume theres an explanation for the picture you linked to, but I don't want to know it.

I remember the whackos though. We had this one guy on evangelion.com who literally had five or six immaculately painted models of rei on a shelf in his apartment, which he would frequently reference in nearly indecipherable posts.

edit:

quote:
one fan claimed NGE happened in an alternate reality and that there might be a way to get there


...On second thought it's quite possible you win as far as "weird experiences with EVA fans".
SEELE 08 05-21-2006 06:11 AM
quote:
...On second thought it's quite possible you win as far as "weird experiences with EVA fans".


Craziest fanwanks about Eva thus far...

-Eva is in an alternate reality
-Kaworu is a flat chested girl
-Ritsuko was raped by SEELE
-Adam is an egg-laying giant human female
-Keel had an homosexual affair with Misato's father
-The HCP commitee are all aspects of Keel, and the commitee utilizes AT feilds
-Keel is the wandering jew
-Keel is Cain
-Keel is Longinus
-Lilith and Adam are aliens sent from alien civilization to seed earth.
-Gendo is the true hero of NGE
-The Evas really don't need their pilots, they're just playing along!
-Angles hatch from eggs (one hatched from something though, which is true, but it may or may not have been an egg)
-Naoko is Unit-00's soul
-Lilith fought with Adam and speared him
-Keel is angry with Misato's father (though there is no indication they ever met)

(at least half of this fanwankery came from a single fanwanker)

Here's some happy fanart! (I didn't make, so don't blame me)

Randolph 05-21-2006 06:23 AM
I'm amused by how much you like to use the term "fanwanker". I prefer the somewhat more sophisticated term "rabid fanpersons" myself, though to each his own.

I also find it interesting how you dignify such madness by conversing about it to others. Rot of such a nature as that is best left to decay forgotten at the bottom of the Internet, not spread about, however disparagingly.

That said, I'm actually beginning to gather some interest in the thing. I may give it a rent sometime, if I can be convinced it isn't just bleakness, gore and sex (as it sometimes is expressed to be).
SEELE 08 05-21-2006 06:26 AM
Sorry, just venting about some madness that needs to be forgotten. Fanwanker is just a funny term that amuses me but rabid fanperson is a bit kinder in way.

The series isn't all gore, sex, and violence...okay the movie is...but it's rather entertaining and fun if you don't over analyze it like Catcher in the Rye.
The Fallen Phoenix 05-23-2006 01:58 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SEELE 08
The series isn't all gore, sex, and violence...okay the movie is...but it's rather entertaining and fun if you don't over analyze it like Catcher in the Rye.


Which is true of just about everything. I think it is tragic (understandable, but tragic) when people write off things--whether it be a book, a piece of art, a show, a movie, a game, what have you--because it has a rabid fanbase or has been over-saturated or over-analyzed; it is not exactly fair to the work/entertainment itself. But I suppose, at some level, we have all been guilty of that at some level. I will admit, for example, that one reason I harbor rather lukewarm feelings towards the Final Fantasy series is because I get fed up with all the rabid fanboyism that is often (even if unfairly) associated with it.

That said, I agree with much of what SEELE 08 posted in this thread. As for the 10th Anniversary Box Set? I am in no rush to purchase it, despite my like of Evangelion (one of my favorite anime). As has been mentioned, the price seems...a bit much, and I doubt there will be anything significant released with it that has yet to be released before.
ScionofDestiny 05-23-2006 07:28 PM
HMM ...

The amount of Abrahamic religious symbolism in Evangelion is arguable. Some people say "a lot" and others say "not much".

Just like to make a slight observation.

As far as religion goes, Evangelion seems to be going off Ancient Judaism rather than modern Angelican Christiananity (as Wikipedia says) -more specifically, I think it has Kaballah aspects in it.

Before you condemn the idea, just listen.

Freud studied Kaballah (not sure if it is Jewish or Hemetic Kaballah, but there you go) - a lot. It showed in some of his works. It influenced him and how he thought some - about psychology and humans in general.

Kaballah (or rather, the oral speech which preceded the written Kaballah) is very ancient.

Kaballah - study it too much and you are supposed to go insane. Well, there is Evangelion for you.

I think that the following happened:

Anno became aware of Freudian concepts through therapy, and like any Director-Writer he had to research the source of his material. He probably read a multitude of books about Freudian psychology.

While reading these, he almost certainly had to have read how Freud was a 'student' of the Kaballah.

I don't know much about Kaballah, so I can't speak with confidence. It would just fit in more with the "Freudian" feel of the series if he used it rather than modern Christianity.

ALTERNATE UNIVERSE QUESTION?

UH - well there are philosophical and quantum physical theories that delve into the MRI (Many-worlds interpretation) as a means of explaining some of the phememenon in our universal mechanics - there are some pretty high test equations for it.

I'm not commited to the theories until they can be proven true, but I would just like to point out.

Even if you could get into the Evangelion universe - why would you want too?
SEELE 08 05-23-2006 08:10 PM
The only reason I'd go to an Eva-verse is to get the cyborg technology, because cyborgs are teh cool. Unfortunately the in the Eva-verse no person is complete without 397 different sets of issues and neuroses.
THe problem with the religious symbology is that is was used because it looks cool, but many people think it has incredibly deep meanings. The makers of the show even said they wouldn't have used the Judeo-Christian themes if they knew it would be broadcast in the Western world so widely.
StevieV019 05-24-2006 10:26 AM
The only real influence the Judeo-Christian themes have in the series is on the Angels and their original source, and what role Adam, Lilith, and Eve (Eva) play in all of it regarding the different Impacts. Outside of that, everything concerning Shinji, Asuka, Misato, Ritsuko, Genji, etc. etc. revolves around the human psyche and the different relationship each has with one another. You can see where certain themes influenced where the story would go and what the series would revolve around, but ultimately, it comes down to the psychology of the human and its creation and evolution...
ScionofDestiny 05-24-2006 11:26 AM
I heard somewhere, among other things, the Angels represent the forms of evolution mankind rejected (Misato said as much). The War against the Angels is then a manifestation of the competitive nature of evolution itself - all beings trying to reach the same goal but only one destinied to get there. Moreover, it is a war between the variations of our species that mankind rejected during our evolutionary being.

The common belief is that if an Angel came into contact with Adam humanity would be destroyed in the resounding blast and the Angel would have multiplied until it, rather than humanity, filled the earth. Thus replacing humans as the dominant species.

Sigmund Freud once said that, allegorically, when mankind ate from the "Tree of Knowledge" we may have gained the ability to use Judgement, defining good from evil, order from chaos, and Reason - or, at least higher reasoning skills than our prior form.

Welll, Evangelion is deep - in a sense. Although the amount of religious symbolism is debatable, the Freudian psychology is present.

More significantly, religion is psychology. The earliest forms of pre-scientific psychology generally appeared in philosophical works or spiritual works.