Microsoft Haters... Stop it.

This is something I've long felt compelled to comment upon... Microsoft hating. Especially concerning the X-Box and the 360.

Why the complaints about it? Microsoft released a high-quality, powerful system with many good games for it, many of them first-party. Many people made complaints about Sony when they first came out with the playstation... Spoke of how a company that made TV's shouldn't make video game consoles... Let's not forget the Nintendo complaints, when the big system at the time was Atari. To put it bluntly, people always seem to complain when a new company and/or system comes out on the market, and this vexes and confuses me. Why the need to spout the most inane and infantile insults at a company? Is it because they make more money than you? Is it because Microsoft is among the (if not the most) wealthiest companies in the world? All that means is they know how to run a business, and fear that they may buy out Nintendo or somesuch is weak and has no basis in reality.

Microsoft has been producing quality products for decades. While many like to cite Windows and such as their big failures, keep in mind that EVERY game and program has bugs and glitches (hence why patches have been released for almost every PC game in existence).

I am no more guilty or innocent than some, and guiltier than others with my lashing on Sega and/or Nintendo. However, I also love both companies and enjoy many of the games they've made. My biggest complaint with Sega is that they no longer have their own system, and so instead I have to buy Sega games for other consoles (SADX, SA2 Battle, Chu Chu Rocket...). Nintendo simply has stopped trying, in my opinion. Sure, they have the Wii, with its Wiimote and Smash Bros. Brawl (With Solid Snake, whoopideedoo). But the games they make are the same games I played (albeit with better graphics) on the NES when I was 6 and 7. Fun, yes, but I look for slightly different games now. The truth is that Nintendo's consoles are kids' systems, with only a thin layer of T and M games to try and hide that fact.

The X-Box is certainly not for everyone. A vast majority of its games are rated T and M, with a few falling into the E7 and E range. Its target audience is the teenage bracket, and it shows. So just because a system isn't made by one of the (former) big three (Sega, Nintendo, Sony), doesn't mean it's automatically bad.

The vast majority of X-Box games have intuitive, easy controls and and immersive gameplay and story. The games have quality graphics and the ability to actually save on the system itself instead of purchasing 4 or 5 memory cartridges. If you don't like Halo, fine. There are easily dozens of other great games on the X-Box and available for the 360.

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Originally posted by The Venome Lord Of course, that's always been a problem with Nintendo. Also, the vast majority of their games suffer this quality pain I mentioned. Whether it be story, por translations, bad (very bad) glitches, or a system that overheats if you leave it on for more than ten minutes... But I'm sure my kid neices will love the Wii.

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Originally posted by The Venome Lord quote: Originally posted by Patsai Here's a partial game list for the Wii. [Insert standard issue Nintendo games ranging from mediocre to sub-par here] Edited for ease of reading and further accuracy.

You bring it upon yourself on here, so who are you to wave your finger?

I already said I'm guilty of it, but I also have the experience of playing on Nintendo systems since they came out. I've played the NES, SNES, N64, GCN, GB, GBP, GBC, GBA, GBASP, NDS... Even the GBM.

My conclusion remains the same that Nintendo follows a pattern of aiming at they younger market. This isn't wrong, per se, but the games range from mediocre to sub-par in my opinion, and I think that they could do with trying to be more universal. Microsoft is at least attempting that with games theyre planning, though their primary target is the teenage and young adult age bracket, as I've said before.

My comment on Nintendo's game and console quality comes from experience... That statement is bitterness from experience, whereas many people who make hating comments toward MS and the X-Box claim: "No I don't play it cuz it suxxor5 n halo sux!!!1one"

I at least give a system a try, though I don't hesitate to voice my guesses as to what it will be like before I try it, but I'll try the Wii with an open mind, just like I tried the Dreamcast, PS2, GCN, and the X-Box and the 360 and every other system I've used.

To each his own.

Nintendo aimed at younger kids might be an overstatement. The Gamecube to me was more of a system that aimed towards the old school gamers, and those who loved the 16-bit era felt at home with it.

I'm sure there are those out here who say they absolutely hate Microsoft, others who hate Sony, and others who hate Nintendo. Point of the matter is, when you fall in love with a console, most people I meet tend to treat their favorite console like it's part of their family. When you have a friend of yours trying to persuade you into believing that another console is better and your choice sucks, you tend to defend it like it's your own brother. You wouldn't give up a family member for someone else, would you?

This might be going out there, but it's a theory that does make sense. I love Nintendo and I don't really have a problem with Microsoft or Sony. But for me, Nintendo comes first. It's the console that has put a pedistal in my heart and fond memories in my mind. It's just the way people think. Others will refuse to expand to other consoles, and you'll just have to learn to deal with it. All three companies are out there to make one thing though: money. It's the reality some people, including a few of my friends, forget. It's their life, and it's all they'll ever talk about.

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You bring it upon yourself on here, so who are you to wave your finger?

Well said CT.

Really I see this thread going no where good. I also see this thread serving zero purpose.

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Originally posted by The Venome Lord I already said I'm guilty of it, but I also have the experience of playing on Nintendo systems since they came out. I've played the NES, SNES, N64, GCN, GB, GBP, GBC, GBA, GBASP, NDS... Even the GBM. My conclusion remains the same that Nintendo follows a pattern of aiming at they younger market. This isn't wrong, per se, but the games range from mediocre to sub-par in my opinion, and I think that they could do with trying to be more universal. Microsoft is at least attempting that with games theyre planning, though their primary target is the teenage and young adult age bracket, as I've said before. My comment on Nintendo's game and console quality comes from experience... That statement is bitterness from experience, whereas many people who make hating comments toward MS and the X-Box claim: "No I don't play it cuz it suxxor5 n halo sux!!!1one" I at least give a system a try, though I don't hesitate to voice my guesses as to what it will be like before I try it, but I'll try the Wii with an open mind, just like I tried the Dreamcast, PS2, GCN, and the X-Box and the 360 and every other system I've used.

First off, I don't see Metroid Prime 3, Red Steel, Call of Duty 3, or Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess aimed at a younger audience. That, and WiFi online service. Your average 10 year old doesn't know how to connect to the internet without mommy or daddy. I doubt they'll be able to figure out how to play games online.

The only reason you're "OMG f*** NINTENDO" is because of bitterness towards your precious Halo. That's frekaing lame. Halo's a decent game. Good for parties and multiplayer. sh**ty story. Get over it.

Krang pointed out that you bashed Wii before you even played it, and what you said was far from keeping an open mind about anything. You should really stop before your own words continue to be used against you.

But meh.

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Originally posted by The Venome Lord Why the complaints about it? Microsoft released a high-quality, powerful system with many good games for it, many of them first-party. .

Well, it only helps them that they f***ing BUY entire studios. Like Rare. And Bungie.

Anyone remember that lawsuit against Sony's dualshock controllers? Microsoft was in that too, but bought a 10(ish)% share of the company to make them shut up.

And Parodius is win.

As far as Halo goes, I could care less if people make fun of it or not. Halo is not the ultimate X-Box game, and as far as a crappy story goes? It has THE story, that is, its story is the same as every other FPS ever in existence. "shoot the bad guys in [insert location: space, Hell, earth, Russia, Germany, Pacific]."

I said I'm guilty of it... again. I spoke out against the Wii, but that's the bitterness of my own Nintendo experiences speaking. I'll play it, I'll try a multitude of games on it. I may even buy the system if I like enough of them.

This is the same attitude I used when I got an X-Box for the first time. I laughed at it, thought it would blow up in MS's face, tried it anyway, loved it, bought it. Halo was actually the 5th game I got for it, not the 1st. So suffice it to say that halo is not the influencing factor for me.

At the time, I was rabid Sega fanboy, much as some peopple are rabid Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo/Neo Geo fanboys. I'm not a Microsoft fanboy even now (I'll still play Sonic 2 on my Genesis over Halo 2 on the X-Box), but I can appreciate them being a good system, and so I find it vexing that others, even five years after the fact, refuse to give it a chance.

Why did I never give xbox a chance? Well, I didn't like Halo very much, and the PC version looked like it was from 1998. Pretty much every other game that interested me (except Mercenaries...that game looked damn cool) was on another system or PC, but I'm not going to get a whole console for one game. Counterstrike also turned me off to the whole online FPS thing, and even though I know Live is amazing, I don't want to pay for it. That and the 360's power brick is the size of my cat and I'm afraid it would melt the carpet.

Plus, yeah, I'm a big nostalgia fan. I didn't even like Mario Sunshine that much. And...well, as for all of Nintendo's systems being for kids, back in the day when NES and then SNES were king, kids were really the only ones playing video games. And plus, the technology wasn't there to produce realistic blood spray patterns in 3d, so developers went the cartoony route. And I'll be the first to admit, there were a helluva lot of sucky games from the 8 and 16 bit eras. Probably even more than there are now. The PS, PS2 and Xbox all first came around when those original gamers had grown up and therefore don't have the past of more kiddieish games.

And yeah, Sonic 1, 2, and 3+Knuckles are all effing amazing games. So were more obscure games like Steel Empire. Genesis seemed to have more crappy games than SNES did though, maybe it just seems that way because I had Genesis for longer than I had SNES.

It also seems like there's more PS3 hate nowadays than Microsoft, being that the PS3 is ridiculously expensive, even when compared to 360.

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(except Mercenaries...that game looked damn cool) was on another system or PC

Mercenaries was and is wonderful.

The sequel will be out on PC (360, ps3 and pc). Unless they totally forget everything they did right when making the first one, then yeah I'd definately reccomend it to everyone who couldn't play the first one due to what consoles it was on.

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My conclusion remains the same that Nintendo follows a pattern of aiming at they younger market. This isn't wrong, per se, but the games range from mediocre to sub-par in my opinion

I hear this alot. I'm thinking the wii is going to try to move away from that (not that they didn't on gamecube, resident evil 4/metal gear solid: the twin snakes/eternal darkness/etc) considering one of the titles they're hyping is this red steel thing where you hack up people with a sword apparently.

True or not I can't really see that image helping sales, so they'll probably try to move away from it...or it neither helps nor hurts sales. I dont know really.

My problem with Red Steel is that title is (as I understand it) still owned by WotC, who own it now that they own the former TSR, who made a game called Red Steel back in '94.

So... I wonder how that'd work.

...your problem is with the licensing of the title?

And actually I heard that so far, Red Steel sucks. The swordplay is good but the graphics are terrible and the gun-aiming sucks. But it has promise and launch is still a good ways off.

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Originally posted by Mike ...your problem is with the licensing of the title? And actually I heard that so far, Red Steel sucks. The swordplay is good but the graphics are terrible and the gun-aiming sucks. But it has promise and launch is still a good ways off.

Yes, because the original game rocked, and I hope they'd at least buy the rights to the title from WotC first. Other than that, I've heard that it's sub-par, like that generic lightsaber battle game you can get that plugs right into your TV.

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Originally posted by The Venome Lord I already said I'm guilty of it, but I also have the experience of playing on Nintendo systems since they came out. I've played the NES, SNES, N64, GCN, GB, GBP, GBC, GBA, GBASP, NDS... Even the GBM.

Nobody is forcing you to use Nintendo systems. If you don't like Nintendo anymore, simply stop playing their games. Then you will no longer have a reason to complain.

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My conclusion remains the same that Nintendo follows a pattern of aiming at they younger market. This isn't wrong, per se, but the games range from mediocre to sub-par in my opinion, and I think that they could do with trying to be more universal. Microsoft is at least attempting that with games theyre planning, though their primary target is the teenage and young adult age bracket, as I've said before.

Why does it matter what the games are rated? The only people who care about things like that are people who only play what's popular so that they can brag about it to others. If you're that self-conscious about what games you play, you shouldn't be playing them at all, since that takes the fun out of it. As for me, the majority of the games in some of my favorite genres (platformers, puzzle games, music games) are rated E, and I couldn't care less.

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I've heard that it's sub-par

But have you played it yet? Unless you were at E3, the answer is no.

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Originally posted by Krang Nobody is forcing you to use Nintendo systems. If you don't like Nintendo anymore, simply stop playing their games. Then you will no longer have a reason to complain. [...] quote: I've heard that it's sub-par But have you played it yet? Unless you were at E3, the answer is no.

Krang just pwned you....twice.


I am a PSII and Nintendo fan myself. My friend has PSII and I love playing the games he's got (not to mention there's a LupinIII game for PSII >_>)...and I have NES, N64, GBC, and GBA (the last two mainly for Pokemon) and I enjoy the games. My parents are the only thing stopping me for getting a PSII (or a Wii whenever it comes out). But hell I'd buy the PSII for the games my friend has or even the Wii sheerly for SuperSmashBros Brawl (Snake in the game mothaf***er! ). Sure the graphic on N64 are sucky at times (though Podracer was pretty cool for its time) but I enjoy playing SSB, Podracer, and bumbling through Mario 64 (it's a conspiracy I know it...I've never beaten a Mario game in my life for some reason).

I think the only truely sucky game I've come across on N64 (I'm so behind the times ;_; ) is "Hey, You Pikachu"...that truely sucked beyond reason.

N64's graphics only suck because the console is like 10 years old.

And I got a worse one: War Gods. That game blew. And that Kirby game. It wasn't necessarily bad, but I beat it in an hour.

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Originally posted by Krang Nobody is forcing you to use Nintendo systems. If you don't like Nintendo anymore, simply stop playing their games. Then you will no longer have a reason to complain.

I'm saying that I do give them chances, and have found a lot to be enjoyed on the Nintendo systems (Mario 3, Megaman Soccer, Bomberman, the list is too long). But while I enjoy the classic stylings of the games I loved when I was ten and back, I no longer enjoy those kinds of games, nor do I find enjoyment in yet another Mario Party incarnation.

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Originally posted by Krang Why does it matter what the games are rated? The only people who care about things like that are people who only play what's popular so that they can brag about it to others. If you're that self-conscious about what games you play, you shouldn't be playing them at all, since that takes the fun out of it. As for me, the majority of the games in some of my favorite genres (platformers, puzzle games, music games) are rated E, and I couldn't care less.

I love some of those as well (except the music games... hrnn.). It's just that I feel perhaps that I want games aimed at me. Tastes change as you age (typically), and I no longer want to play "Super Fuzzy Kootchie Catcha" on any system. A game doesn't need to be violent with mandataroy breast and panty shots to be appealing to me, but it can at least be further up to my level, as every single puzzle game I've played recently, I've been able to beat in no time flat. That doesn't give much in replay value.

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Originally posted by Krang But have you played it yet? Unless you were at E3, the answer is no.

It's not so much that I won't try it (just like I tried that lightsaber game), my only true complaint is the licensing, because Red Steel from TSR was an amazing and enjoyable game, and I hope they at least dealt with that. And if they did, then this new Red Steel better be every bit as good, if not better than the original Red Steel.

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Originally posted by The Venome Lord It's not so much that I won't try it (just like I tried that lightsaber game), my only true complaint is the licensing, because Red Steel from TSR was an amazing and enjoyable game, and I hope they at least dealt with that. And if they did, then this new Red Steel better be every bit as good, if not better than the original Red Steel.

Someone needs to pay attention, because this has nothing to do with that RPG. I'm guessing the name is a coincidence, with it being so obscure that no one bothered to check the name.

OBSCURE? In 1994, it sold better than Pool of Radiance, which was at the time one of the most popular computer/video game RPG's out there!
It also sold better then Eye of the Beholdr, which even now has a 3rd Ed. D&D incarnation of it for the GBA.


Regardless of obscurity or not, it was a good game and deserves its kudos.


I know it has nothing to do with the new one except for the name and they both had swords.

But regardless, even if they are different, the game needs to live up to the glory of Red Steel.

Aeon Flux the movie made Aeon Flux the series look bad. Dungeons and Dragons the movie made the entire tabeltop look bad. Silent Hill was...meh, you get the idea.

It's just a name. Not a big deal.