Oh say can you 'sing'... in Spanish!?!! (Warning: Rant ahead)

evanASF27 05-02-2006 06:45 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Xel
You all know that our national anthem was written to the tune of a British drinking song, right?

And did you know the United States came from Britain...but then we separated from them so neither fact actually matters towards the discussion. (Plus Ian so "graciously" reminded us about it on the first page)

At that point in history, the Colonies became United States and obviously within 3 weeks we weren't going to have a new style of music that we could call "American"...so the fact the tune was once a rather non-prevailant drinking song for the Brits doesn't make the National Anthem any less important or dear to people. This "new" Latin pop National Anthem isn't being made for a newly formed country, it's being used to get money and votes for the Democrats and only serves to divide the nation in the long run. A nation divided cannot stand...and yes I was just paraphrasing Abraham Lincoln.
Sharpshooter005 05-02-2006 06:50 PM
quote:
At that point in history, the Colonies became United States and obviously within 3 weeks we weren't going to have a new style of music that we could call "American"...so the fact the tune was once a rather non-prevailant drinking song for the Brits doesn't make the National Anthem any less important or dear to people.


It was made the national anthem in 1931 I think. The navy had recognized it in the 1880s and the white house sometime soon after.

And it wasn't strictly a drinking song, it was initially the anthem of some sort of club over in England...though yeah there was probably at least someone smashed during thier meetings, so I guess it counts.
evanASF27 05-02-2006 07:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Sharpshooter005
It was made the national anthem in 1931 I think. The navy had recognized it in the 1880s and the white house sometime soon after.

And it wasn't strictly a drinking song, it was initially the anthem of some sort of club over in England...though yeah there was probably at least someone smashed during thier meetings, so I guess it counts.

1931? ...good year! Pleased Anyway, but that time the only really original music genre in America (that could be called "American" safely) was Jazz...but Jazz wasn't appropriate for the theme of a nation Wink

And to those who think "well Latin rock would make a nice anthem", do you really think a genre like Latin rock would be proper for a world superpower? If we gave into fads like that, would a disco National Anthem have been acceptable, or punk rock?
The Fallen Phoenix 05-02-2006 07:45 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Zenigata-Da-Vida
And to those who think "well Latin rock would make a nice anthem", do you really think a genre like Latin rock would be proper for a world superpower? If we gave into fads like that, would a disco National Anthem have been acceptable, or punk rock?


...I don't think a national anthem is really that big of a deal. There is no reason why a Jazz piece wouldn't be appropriate for an anthem, really.

I...really do not think there is any chance in Heaven, Hell, or High Purgatory this alternate anthem would ever become the official anthem of the country, anyway. It's a cute idea, but incredibly pointless and (I daresay) a little stupid. Again, there are very valid arguments out there for why the national anthem should remain as it is right now.

What is this nonsense for songs that would or would not be proper for a world superpower? That, good sir, is a matter of opinion and not fact. If someone truly think Latin rock or disco would be appropriate, well, then that person may very well think it. That's the beauty of pluralism, I suppose.

Of course, it isn't as if the anthem is really good for anything other than opening up ceremonial and sports events as well as for the Olympics. It deserves its due reverence, I suppose, as an "official" symbol of America, but...well, you can interpret that symbol freely (hence why it is a symbol) in a liberal pluralistic society. Perhaps someone would prefer a "silly" genre for the ironic value, or perhaps to symbolize some other facet of American culture or...Hell, I do not know. Point is, you can assign a symbol whatever meaning (or lack thereof) you choose.
Mike 05-02-2006 07:46 PM
I REALLY don't think they were trying to get it adopted as the official anthem. I think they were trying to say something more like "we're Americans too, don't treat us like dirt"
X Prime 05-07-2006 03:19 AM
Except... eh, I'll let this speak.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/borderpatrol.asp

I must say, I am highly convinced that the man is basically right.
Sharpshooter005 05-07-2006 04:24 AM
quote:
I REALLY don't think they were trying to get it adopted as the official anthem. I think they were trying to say something more like "we're Americans too, don't treat us like dirt"


They went about it in a HORRIBLE way. This whole anthem translation thing plus the amount of mexican flags (and the weird...half u.s./half mexican flags) shown on the news didn't much help their cause. If anything it seems to have galvanized opposition.

I'm not even saying its wrong, I'm just saying if the message they want to send is "we want to be Americans too", they're botching it completely.
Mike 05-07-2006 09:39 AM
Oh yeah, they're totally messing it up. I don't think people realized that changing the flag, or putting the Mexican flag over an upside down US flag basically made people think that they were calling for Mexico to overthrow the US government. And that whole strike thing didn't seem to work very well.
Fujiko 05-15-2006 09:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Mike
Oh yeah, they're totally messing it up. I don't think people realized that changing the flag, or putting the Mexican flag over an upside down US flag basically made people think that they were calling for Mexico to overthrow the US government. And that whole strike thing didn't seem to work very well.


That whole flag thing...was just stupid.

On the song, I personally don't care. It's a song, a compliment to the national anthem. It doesn't necessarily have to be made official.

quote:
And to those who think "well Latin rock would make a nice anthem", do you really think a genre like Latin rock would be proper for a world superpower? If we gave into fads like that, would a disco National Anthem have been acceptable, or punk rock?


I agree with what FP said, that is a matter of opinion. Who says classical or any other sort of music should be superior to that of what you claim to be "fads"? (And just letting you know, Spanish Rock in general isn't really bad.)
dancinggummi88 05-30-2006 07:33 AM
their is no official or primary language in this freakin country. and if you really think about it even though a majority of are citizens we are allllllll immigrants. the only ones that are TRUE americans are the natives that were here first.

also since it is a national anthem all citizens should be able to sing it in their own language besides english.... u know? i mean how do you think the hispanics feel when they have to sing something is english when half of us can even speak english...... their should be a translation for every nationality so that we could be patriotic but thats just me because im not biast about it.
Inigo Montoya 05-30-2006 10:51 AM
Didn't the Senate establish that English is our nation's official language or somesuch thing like that just recently?

Other countries don't have their anthems in multiple languages, why should we? Is it not an immigrant's beholden responsibility to learn the language of the land they go to?
Sharpshooter005 05-30-2006 11:06 AM
quote:
e are allllllll immigrants.


No, you meant "descended from immigrants", which is in no way the same thing. Nor does it...really matter terribly much as far as I'm concerned

If you are born here (or...I forget if this extends to technical U.S. soil, such as an embassy) then you qualify legally as a natural born citizen.

If you undergo nationalization procedures at some point in your life, you are a citizen. You can start off an immigrant and wind up a citizen, your parents can be immigrants and this does not preclude you from being a citizen.

Seriously why is this little talking point being constantly regurgitated like it's some sort of epiphany? You mean people in my family have come over from other countries! NO WAY! I THOUGHT ALSACE WAS IN UPSATE NEW YORK! Roll Eyes


quote:
Didn't the Senate establish that English is our nation's official language or somesuch thing like that just recently?


It has yet to go through the senate, and I think its an amendment to another bill. So nothing "officially" yet, but it's still the de facto official language
Generalissimo D 05-30-2006 11:26 AM
quote:
Originally posted by The Venome Lord
Other countries don't have their anthems in multiple languages, why should we? Is it not an immigrant's beholden responsibility to learn the language of the land they go to?


Only...this is America, not any other country.

I mean, anyone who comes here to live will pickup at least some English to get around.


And yes, Sharpshooter, if you are born on an embassy (the military has some setup for kids born into those kinds of families, but I forget how it works..) you are a natural born citizen.
evanASF27 05-30-2006 01:43 PM
quote:
Originally posted by dancinggummi88
and if you really think about it even though a majority of are citizens we are allllllll immigrants. the only ones that are TRUE americans are the natives that were here first.

That's not what is being talked about.

quote:
also since it is a national anthem all citizens should be able to sing it in their own language besides english.... u know? i mean how do you think the hispanics feel when they have to sing something is english when half of us can even speak english...... their should be a translation for every nationality so that we could be patriotic but thats just me because im not biast about it.

If you support making something that is supposed to unify Americans something that caters to every language of the country they've left to come here, that's not being patriotic to America, that's being patriotic to the "old-country" the place they left to become an American here. Take a look at the points below:

--- The song "Nuestro Himno" being pushed by Hispanics (or hispanic supporters, since I have a number of hispanic friends who oppose the song in question) has a nationalistic ring to it, but it's not being used inclusively, but makes a distinction between Hispanics and Americans. That's sectionalism. Sharshooter005 says it wonderfully...
quote:
Originally posted by Sharshooter005
I'm not even saying its wrong, I'm just saying if the message they want to send is "we want to be Americans too", they're botching it completely.

--- The National Anthem in the eyes of many many people, isn't something that should be sung out of sympathy, but be sung to show your devotion to America and the American way (not sung to Bush or "the insane corrupt gov't blahblahblah that I'm against" as I've heard some say...just in case someone was going to bring up that excuse). As seen in the movie "Casablanca", there's a scene of the French supporters singing the French national anthem and the German soldiers singing the German national anthem. Some of those French supporters weren't even French themselves, but all of them sang it in French. The power that the anthem has can be seen in that movie.
Mugiwara Luffy 05-30-2006 04:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by dancinggummi88
also since it is a national anthem all citizens should be able to sing it in their own language besides english.... u know? i mean how do you think the hispanics feel when they have to sing something is english when half of us can even speak english...... their should be a translation for every nationality so that we could be patriotic but thats just me because im not biast about it.


Uh, yeah. That doesn't really work. If Americans wanted to sing the American national anthem, shouldn't they all sing it in the same voice, instead of smatterings of English, Spanish, French, German, Dutch, Chinese, Japanese, et al. to create some ungodly cacophony? And since English is the most widely spoken language here, it makes sense that it should be sung in English. Not that large groups of people really sing the anthem anyway....